In ROTS is Anakin Capable of taking Mace out alone?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by ItchyRedSaber, Sep 6, 2004.

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  1. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Anakin could beat any opponent in the entire saga, given he was focused on good as opposed to the arrogance and overconfidence that set in from his dark side.
  2. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Exactly, Anakin is capable of beating anyone; but whether he actually would, i don't think so.

    What's important with Dooku is that it takes Dooku provoking Anakin to have him lay the smack down; that's not something Mace would do, we've seen how he fights (Jango/Sidious) - he's precise and doesn't take unnecessary time or risk. I don't think Anakins in the right mental state to take on Mace (or Sidious/Yoda) and actually win.

    - O_F
  3. Juggernaut86 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    Naw

    He wasnt able to lay the smack down till obi got knocked down

    He changed his fighting style since it became a 1 on 1 fight

    what more motivation did Anakin need when the dude cut off his hand

    And Anakin only got emotional with Obi Wan because that was like his father

    He has no emotional attachment to Yoda or Mace

    Sidious might get in his head since he is also a father figure to him



  4. NoCloneTheories Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2003
    star 5
    But that's like saying Maul could beat anyone in the entire saga if only he wouldn't gloat. I mean sure, it's true, but he DOES gloat. So it is sort of a false point.

    Anakin fights angry, and frustrated. Most times we have seen Anakin use a lightsaber in a duel, he has gotten angry, he has overreached, and he has taken some serious injury. His second fight with Dooku is the only one where he didn't get seriously hurt, and that was the fight where he embraced his anger.

    Anakin probably had the potential to beat anyone, but the "if's" involved in that are so great as to be sort of null and void. Anakin would have to be quite different than he actually is to do that.
  5. Juggernaut86 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    He wasnt seriously hurt by Ajara Ventress or killing several Jedi Masters in the temple

    Except for Obi........Anakin has had far more battles than any other warrior in the series...He was the top knight during the clone wars

    Anakin has had plenty of fights

    In his whole life he fought 2 Jedi Master and 1 Sith Master.....thas more impressive than anyone in the whole saga

    Dude fought a former Jedi Master/Sith apprentice as a padawan thas unheard of

    and Maul is good by overated just like Mace......He faught an old Jedi that got tired fast and a Young Padawan

    that is not impressive for a Sith Apprentice

    Imagine if Sidious trained Anakin for 20 some years since his birth

    He wouldve owned anyone easily
  6. lordmorpheus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    I think that as long as we are saying "What If", then the possiblilties are endless. i mean, potentially, you could say that luminara Unduli would be able to defeat any sith or jedi within the star wars universe. that having been said, we can REALLY only go according to what is given to us. Anakin IS a brash, impulsive son-of-a-shmi!!! mace windu is a thorough, powerful, experienced jedi master on par with the mighty yoda. he is viewed as arrogant by some, foolish, stupid, whatever. i happen not to believe any of that myself, but the point is we ONLY have the character traits in the movies and the novels/comics (unless no one wants to use EU) and based on that, i think that experience and wisdom would be the edge that mace windu would use to win. of course, maybe anakin would call on some serious rage, but what would the motivation be? perhaps if padme were at risk or something, right?

    as for his revelation, i think that w9ith the sith around, anyone could have guessed that their intended target would eventually be the jedi, but for mace windu to make his statement, and for anyone that read the novel, i think that HIS was a focus more pointed toward palpatine and his involvement whereas the rest of the council was more focused on ending the war and removing palpatine that way. he just seemed to be more intensely focused on finding sidious than the rest of the jedi. when he found him, he had him on the ropes....but for anakin skywalker, what would have happened?
  7. Master_Andres Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Mace can and would take Anakin. Remember that Vaapad (Mace's form of lightsaber combat) focuses attacking dark side energy and superconducts it to the user's benefit. Kind of like reflects applied power so to say. Anakin would only attack Mace with dark influence so Mace would repel it at the same magnitude. I don't care if Anakin is the most powerful Jedi, that DOES NOT make him the "Chosen One!" What makes Anakin the "Chosen One" is the Force's decision on putting him at the right place at the right time to make the right move, NOT his power level. Being the "Chosen One" has no bearing on beating anyone (except the dark side). I would even go as far to say that the "Chosen One" does not have to kill the Sith. All he has to do is eradicate the dark side from them (at the right place and time, as I said previously).
  8. twilightjedi0622 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2004
    star 3
    lordmorpheous,

    If you have not already, you should read "SHATTERPOINT" it will explain to you why Mace is possesed with finding and destroying the Sith Master. He blames himself for the "CLONE WARS" because he feels that he could have stopped them before they started if he would have killed Dooku on Genosis. At that point in time Dooku was the "shatterpoint" for the clone wars, but killing him would have meant sacrificing himself (Mace) as it would have allowed Jango Fett to kill him. On the balcony of the arena in epII. This all leads to much guilt. The novel is very good, knowing this will not ruin it for you. As you find this out in the fist few pages of the story.

    By the way, In a straight saber duel according to all the novels making any referance to Mace's Lightsaber skills Mace would whip Anakin hands down. Vaapad is the most powerful style by everones admission. In the movie even though I felt the confrontation scene was not done as well as it should have been, (three of the four most powerfull jedi in lightsabre combat go down as though their feet are nailed to the floor) Mace was still able to hold his own and only fail to defeat the Sith master due to his missplaced trust in Anakin.
  9. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    Hmmm. I wouldn't consider Vaapad to be canon, but the other points, concerning the Chosen One, are very sound.
  10. Master_Andres Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
    I got the understanding of how Vaapad works from the Ep III novel. That's why I posted that info.
  11. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    Being the Chosen One gives him more midichlorians than anyone else. If midichlorians help determine power then being the Chosen One does help.

    That aside, Anakin is powerful no matter what you call him. If he's focused he can beat just about anyone.
  12. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    By the way, In a straight saber duel according to all the novels making any referance to Mace's Lightsaber skills Mace would whip Anakin hands down. Vaapad is the most powerful style by everones admission. In the movie even though I felt the confrontation scene was not done as well as it should have been, (three of the four most powerfull jedi in lightsabre combat go down as though their feet are nailed to the floor) Mace was still able to hold his own and only fail to defeat the Sith master due to his missplaced trust in Anakin.

    NO way. In the novels Anakin is so hyped it's not even funny. In the ROTS novel it mentions him as possibly being the most powerful Jedi EVER. Just because Mace has Vapaad doesn't mean he wins. Way too much emphasis is placed on Vapaad. It's far from unbeatable.
  13. Master_Andres Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Being the Chosen One has nothing to do with force ability, magnitude, midichloriens, none of that. The Chosen One's soul purpose (created by the force to do a task for the force) is to bring balance, or, eliminate imbalance (dark side). The Chosen One does not have to have super powers so to say or have a mega hero image. Anakin was just blessed with those traits from the force as they would be needed to create the path of events leading up to the balancing of the force (ROTJ).
  14. Master_Andres Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
    NO way. In the novels Anakin is so hyped it's not even funny. In the ROTS novel it mentions him as possibly being the most powerful Jedi EVER. Just because Mace has Vapaad doesn't mean he wins. Way too much emphasis is placed on Vapaad. It's far from unbeatable.

    And you would know the in's and out's of Vaapad right? Because you are an actual Jedi right? I'm not saying its unbeatable, but it is a class 9 lightsabre technique. It was enough to skool Palps without even starting to breath heavy. Like I keep saying, Anakin being the most powerful Jedi ever does not mean he will win every fight he ever fights. It just means he is more in sync with the force.
  15. twilightjedi0622 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2004
    star 3
    All jedi are powerfull in different ways. For a multitude of reason Anakin was defeated by Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan in turn always felt that Mace was far and above a better lightsaber duelist than he was. Nobody got to Anakin and caused more self doubt for him than Mace. That combined with Vaapad would have been the crybabys downfall.
  16. Master_Andres Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
  17. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    Yes, midichlorians help power, but so does experience, a department where Mace, Sidious and Yoda are all vastly superior to Anakin in Episode III. Having Anakin rated as level 9 swordsman ranks him as being on the same level as Mace, which gives him a chance to win...if he is focused and controlled. Unfortunately for Anakin, Mace would be (just like Obi-Wan was) vastly superior to Anakin in the focus and control department. Remember that Anakin was beaten by a lesser opponent with better control of his emotions...that wouldn't eqactly bode well for his chances against an equal opponent with better control. Granted, Anakin probably ran a little extra out of control against Obi-Wan because Obi-Wan was his former master and that was more emotional for him than a duel with Mace would be, but a lightsaber-equal opponent with better control would still have the upper hand, as far as I can judge.

    So, while technically, Anakin has a chance to do it, I essentially agree with lordmorpheus that Mace would probably win seven or eight times out of ten.
  18. Master_Andres Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 8, 2005
    MacetheCouncillor,

    Just out of curiousity, where did you find that Anakin was a level 9 swordsman?
  19. lord_dalton Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2005
    star 1
    I think Anakin could have killed Mace, Mace was a good fighter but he was no Anakin Skywalker, Anakin killed two siths(Asajj Ventress and Count Dooku) by the time Mace and Anakin would have had their fight. Anakin would have had a tough fight but he would have murdered Mace.
  20. Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    I, For one, couldn't come to any other conclusion after watching RotS than that Palpatine was simply playing Mace.

    The whole fight was no more than a set-up for Anakin's Fall, which seems to be why Palpatine let Mace last that long rather than killing him straight off: it was necessary for Anakin to turn against what was very likely the most visible symbol of the Jedi in that era and attack him, giving Sidious an important foothold to Anakin's soul, and their behaviour afterwards, during Anakin's dubbing as Darth Vader would seem to confirm this. Anakin is now fully commited to serving the Sith.
  21. obi1andreasen79 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2005
    star 4
    I am of the mind that palpatine did not...repeat not...allow mace to put him in that position. If Anakin didn't join him...errr...I mean save him...his plans would have failed.
    The situation was a test for anakin...but palps had alot at stake...namely his life.
    Technically...Mace did win by cementing palpatines trust in anakin...which as we all know does him in much later on.
    Just my opinion. I'm in no way trying to reopen a very touchy subject....
  22. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    Just out of curiousity, where did you find that Anakin was a level 9 swordsman?

    It was said by Nick Gillard and it was in a Star Wars Insider or Newsletter.

    Anakin does not usually fight the way he does against Obi-Wan. That was a special situation that wouldn't happen twice. Anakin would be focused against any other opponent, and that opponent wouldn't have the extra knowledge of knowing Anakin. If Anakin's focused he owns Mace IMO.

    As far as Vapaad goes it's a creation of the EU and not Lucas. I can't believe people defend Mace by saying "Oh he's got Vapaad of course he'll win". That is ridiculous.
  23. twilightjedi0622 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2004
    star 3
    As a long time subscriber to "INSIDER" I disagree with the "EU" coment about Vapaad.

    My reasoning is this. In an interview with George Lucas shortly after AOTC GL made it clear that a lot of the "CLONE WARS" would take place in the "EU". His reasoning was that their was too much ground to cover in the movie. He said that it was cannon wether it was a game, comic, novel, or short story, as long as it was marked "CLONE WARS". There were supposed to be a team of people that were fact checking and ok'ing everything. Now all that having been said, this all fell through about the same time that "THE CLONE WARS" series 1 came out on the "CARTOON NETWORK". As much as I enjoyed the cartoons and am looking forward to their return, it is obvious that the Jedi were portrayed as far too powerfull for this to fully fit in with the movies. It was at about this time that GL actually started saying that "some" "CLONE WARS" things might not be cannon. Now, Vaapad was first discussed in the novel "SHATTERPOINT" this was the first "CLONE WARS" novel released, and it was well before "THE CLONE WARS" cartoons. It was even before the lightsaber forms artical was released in "INSIDER" witch if I remember briefly mention Vaapad as a form developed by Mace and only taught to a few Jedi because the user came very near to the Dark Side while using it. I belive that by GL's own admission Vaapad is cannon, and therefor pertains to this argument.

  24. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Well there's that, but its also canon for two other reasons:

    1.Its mentioned on a couple of occaisons in the ROTS novel and SW novels based the movies are considered to be canon.

    2.Its been said that George Lucas edited the ROTS novel personally. So I figure if he didn't Vaapad mentioned, he would have asked Matthew Stover to remove it and he didn't. That makes in canon as far as I am concerned.
  25. twilightjedi0622 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2004
    star 3
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