In ROTS is Anakin Capable of taking Mace out alone?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by ItchyRedSaber, Sep 6, 2004.

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  1. Ruthio Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 2
    also dun forget the in chapter 25 of the CloneWars cartoon [which Lucas is heavily evoloved in] basically covered the the exact events seconds before ROTS starts.

    You see Lucas probbably alllows the EU to fill in the gaps. The EU work is met aspecially for the diehard starwas fan like us, and such. Lucas probbaly knows the general public would not care what happened between epiosde 2 and 3..but, a die hard starwars fan will, hence EU is created.

  2. twilightjedi0622 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2004
    star 3
    I am guilty of reading everything including the comics.

    Not a gamer, so my nephew kept me up to speed with that.

    The last chapter or two of "LABARNYTH OF EVIL" is almost identical two the last couple of episodes of "THE CLONE WARS" cartoons. Just better. They are literally almost identical.
  3. Darth Kruel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4

    Did I miss something? When does Anakin tell us that he's going to kill Palpatine as soon as he's done with Obi-1?

    I'm more powerful than the Chancellor; I can overthrow him....

    As we have seen from AOTC to ROTS, Anakin has no patience....even as a Sith. He is not ready to face Sidious. Maybe in a year or two afterhand. Obi-1 barely beat Darth Maul, got his ass handed to him twice by Dooku, but managed to beat Anakin....which tells me Vader wasn't ready to test his skills against Sids.
  4. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    I said it was a creation of the EU and not Lucas, which is true. I think Matthew Stover just made it up to give Mace some unique thing, I don't think Lucas had it in mind when he created Mace. That being said it's still ridiculous to hear people defend Mace by just saying "He's got Vapaad he's gonna win".
  5. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Anakin Skywalker has the highest midichlorian count in recorded History.......as and such is potentially more powerful than any Force user in History........

    Since we all can agree that he never reaches THAT level.......I guess what we are indeed debating here is whether his unfinished, unpolished, and unwise version of his ultimate form is "still" enough to beat Legendary Master Jedi Mace Windu during the time of ROTS.

    Even in this state Anakin is very very powerful.....but IMO his lack of wisdom is the key element that we should focus on here. Count Dooku was very powerful as well........but also very foolish and unwise to trust Palpatine completely with his life.........especially considering Dooku's knowledge of the Sith and Master Jedi training under Master Yoda.
    Given Dooku's immense amount of arrogance combined with his incompetence.......we can deduct that Anakin was the more wise of the two men when they fought in ROTS.
    Dooku has knowledge and experience over Anakin in spades, but his before mentioned traits are so dominant that they do not factor into the results of the match.
    Did Dooku's faults contribute to Anakin's domination of him aboard the Invisible Hand? Or was it just Anakin all the way.........
    Dooku's faults DID contribute heavily to the match results.......because they interfered with the Count's ability to listen to the force and know his true opponent and also calm himself and focus for the moment without assumption.
    Dooku was going to lose either way.......but he lost the WRONG way whether you are a Jedi or Sith by not fully using the Force as his ally.

    Anakin's power alone dictates that he can beat ANYONE in the entire Saga if he's focused.......but he is rarely focused in his youth........and even makes the strides to fix the problem post Mustafar in preparation for the Jedi Purge.
    IMO Anakin V Mace Windu is a much better match for Mace than it is for Anakin in ROTS. Mace is focused at all times.....sometimes too much even.....but he always takes his Jedi business very very seriously and would afford Anakin zero mistakes to capitalize on.
    That means that Anakin has to outright break Mace's defences in order to win.......a feat much easier said than done considering Anakin does not have Sith lightning at his fingertips and cannot break Obi-Wan Kenobi's defences in an extended duel.
    Mace is also regarded as extremely powerful physically........which means that the old overhead parry into an inverted inside Lightsaber lock trick that Anakin pulled off against an aging Dooku......isn't going to work here. We saw that Anakin could not physicly overpower Master Kenobi on Mustafar.......yet we saw and read the OS stating that "Mace overpowers Sidious".
    I think this is a good well to tell the differences between their physical strength.......a catagory where Mace seems to hold the advantage.
    Next up is the age old lightsaber comparision.......
    Both of these guys are level 9's.......so they are simply the best of the best. I know the films do Mace no justice prior to Sidious falling before him(Mace kills Jango Fett:p )......but hell we don't see Anakin do anything but lose until he flips the script on Dooku so lets call their backgrounds even.
    Anakin does enjoy the more dominant display of lightsaber skill, but Mace is facing an exponentially more powerful opponent.....so again based on whats on-screen this advantage would also seem to go to Master Windu.
    So far here Mace Windu holds the advantage in Wisdom/Physical Strength/Lightsaber Skill........and really IMO thats enough to win a comfortable 8-9 out of 10 contests between himself and Anakin as long Anakin stays at the same power level as he is in ROTS.

    So if I think that Mace can do it with predictability.....why not say 10 out of 10?

    Easy.....

    Because Anakin is so powerful in the Force that he might pull off some spectacular move never before seen in history......I have to give him that, but I wouldn't put any $$$ on him:cool:

  6. -maynard- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    good post clair...voyant


    anyway, heres a shameless repost:


  7. Ruthio Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 2
    Best...Post....Ever.
  8. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
  9. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    Agreed, but even in his normal state, he would be less focused than a veteran Jedi like Mace.

    Again, true, but Mace has equal skill with the lightsaber according to Gillard's rating system, so there is no clear way of saying who would win even if Anakin fights at his full skill, because Mace's full skill is equally great (at least).

    No, if he is focused they are evenly matched and there is no clear winner. That rarely happens though, so it's kind of a moot point.

    Yes, but Mace bashers have also been known to use EU/novelization stuff to back up their position that Mace is a wuss. That is equally ridiculous.

    Otherwise, read COMMANDER76's outstanding posts. I barely have to argue in this debate, because he is laying out my view there in excellent fashion already.
  10. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    Obviously. That is why the Official Site says Mace overpowered Palpatine. Stop talking rubbish! COMMANDER76's posts are all masterpieces compared to yours.
  11. jedisooner1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2005
    star 2
    No. I think Anakin needs a chaperone. He is too young to take Mace out alone. :p[face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh]
  12. Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    Well, that was certainly an example of mature thinking.:rolleyes:

    It seems I've stumbled into the midst of a clique of some sort.o_O
  13. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    LOL, no. It is just that COMMANDER76's arguments are very sound. That's all.
  14. Quiet_Mandalorian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2005
    star 5
    Only... from a certain point of view....o_O
  15. Luke_Kenobi1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    star 4
    He could , But he would have to show some serious Lightsaber-skills and force powers.
  16. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I didn't even know that Anakin was into men. :p
  17. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    As we have seen from AOTC to ROTS, Anakin has no patience....even as a Sith. He is not ready to face Sidious. Maybe in a year or two afterhand. Obi-1 barely beat Darth Maul, got his ass handed to him twice by Dooku, but managed to beat Anakin....which tells me Vader wasn't ready to test his skills against Sids.


    i agree.anakin in ROTS has no chances against sidious.and mace im not sure,i mean mace was at least at sidious and yoda's level.being the chosen one and having 20000 midichlorians doesnt mean that u are powerfull,midichlorians only mean potential,anakin could,should and would have become more powerfull than anybody in time if he hadn't been scarred on mustafar but he never reaches that. i dont think he could take mace/yoda/palpatine in ROTS.anakin could not even beat obi wan who is not even half the jedi/sith lord that sidious and mace/yoda are
  18. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    Well put, sithrules70. I couldn't agree more.
  19. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    I love how people ignore that Anakin defeated Dooku in seconds when he was foucoused which he was both times against dooku.But yet people said that Obi wan who taught him and was like his father not mention that he felt he just got abandand by his wife.But he was unfocousd then and would'nt care about anyone else.
  20. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Good points.....but they do not matter in this thread because we're not here to make excuses for Anakin. We can't go down that road because it would force us to examine ALL of the character's mental states to determine proper excuses for them as well.

    Every main character in ROTS was under enough stress to fall under a "please excuse me this time" catagory.

    RotS STRESS-O-METER

    Anakin - self induced stress from his betrayal of the Jedi Code on multiple levels
    Obi-Wan Kenobi - stress from the Clone Wars conclusion and mounting responsibility
    Yoda - stress from running the Jedi Order and trying to save the galaxy
    Mace Windu - suffers from the same stresses as Master Yoda
    Sidious - stress resulting from the final details of a several year Master plan coming to pass.
    Dooku - stress from the Clone Wars
    Greivous - suffers from the same stresses as Lord Tyrannus
  21. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    Anakin made an emotional mistake when he jumped at Kenobi. An emotional mistake that came from his fighting his old master and friend and after the only person he cared about betrayed him. He never gets that out of control, it was a rare thing and not something that is common. Anakin is definitely capable of taking Mace. Just because they are both ranked as level 9 duelists doesn't mean thats a moot point. I'm sure some level 9 duelists are better than others. When you look at how decisively Anakin bested Dooku you have to think he could do the same to Windu.
  22. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    Anakin was out of control against Dooku the first time and directly disobeyed Kenobi's orders to wait and attack together.

    Anakin lost it on Tattooine in that Tuskan Village.

    Anakin lost it when Dooku tossed Obi-Wan under that ledge in ROTS.

    And Anakin lost it when Kenobi told him he could not safely jump over him on Mustafar.

    Anakin loses it all the time.......the only difference is that in ROTS when facing Dooku he taps deeply into the dark side for a power burst and since his lightsaber skill is higher anyway....it works.

    And for the last time....lol....comparing Dooku to Mace is downright insulting to the way Lucas wrote Mace's character.

    Its like comparing Kenobi realisticly to Sidious......
  23. DarthJuggalo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2005
    star 3
    Darth Sinister,
    Sorry, I couldn't respond sooner but things happen. Anyway, you said Lucas made the quote about Vader being 20% less than the emperor to show why he isn't as feared as the emperor and why he still serves him. I beg to differ.
    In the OT Vader is the most feared man in the galaxy. The only time we see someone afraid of the emperor is in RotJ.(The emperor is coming here?!). Also, IMO the reason Vader serves Palpatine still is because he is the only friend quote unquote that Vader still has. I know that Vader is planning on over throwing him, but thats just because Luke comes into the picture and that gives Vader someone to rule with. Before he had Luke there he wanted to rule with Padme, but unfortunatley she died so he accepted the fact that he was gonna rule with Sidious. The bottom line is that Lucas made those quotes after the PT was made and he was questioned about how the duels in the OT would stand up against the duels in the PT. He then started saying things like Obi Wan and Vader were just old men and Vader was a cripple and thats why the duels sucked. When as we all know, age has nothing to do with how you fight in the star wars universe.(i.e. Yoda, Dooku, Sidious. All of which are older in RotS then both Vader and Ben in episode 4. They seemed to fight just fine.)BTW,with that cane Yoda appears like a gimp too....
  24. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    And for the last time....lol....comparing Dooku to Mace is downright insulting to the way Lucas wrote Mace's character.

    No it's not. It's actually said that Dooku bested Mace when he was a Jedi, and the darkside would only make Dooku even stronger. I think people look down on Dooku because Anakin beat him so badly.

    Anakin does use his emotions when he fights, but he never totally loses control the way he did on Mustafar. He was shown crying on more than one occasion, and it didn't help that the person he was trying to save betrayed him.
  25. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    And for the last time....lol....comparing Dooku to Mace is downright insulting to the way Lucas wrote Mace's character.

    No it's not. It's actually said that Dooku bested Mace when he was a Jedi, and the darkside would only make Dooku even stronger. I think people look down on Dooku because Anakin beat him so badly.

    Dooku beating Mace is EU, and we don't know when it occurred. It could have been when Mace was merely an advanced Padawan, or when he was a young Knight before he reached his full potential. Gillard said that Anakin, Yoda, the Emperor, and Mace are the only level 9 swordsmen. Dooku is at a lower level than Mace, so he must be less powerful. Anakin, who is another level 9 swordsman, defeated Dooku. Lucas' quotes suggest that both Anakin and Dooku are inferior to Mace. "You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," he says in The Making of ROTS.
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