In ROTS is Anakin Capable of taking Mace out alone?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by ItchyRedSaber, Sep 6, 2004.

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  1. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    You didn't finish the quote. He also said "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor." That's more than Mace or Yoda could do.

    Also Gillard didn't rank Dooku so we don't know what he was. He didn't mention him as an 8 or 9 and common sense tells you he's not a 7. Again, I think some level 9'ers are better than others. Just because two people are both 9's doesn't mean saber skills become a moot point.
  2. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    You didn't finish the quote. He also said "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor." That's more than Mace or Yoda could do.

    Lucas meant that in the future Anakin would be able to defeat the Emperor, once he reached his full potential. Its obvious that in ROTS, Anakin was not at the Emperor's level of power. The OS said that the Emperor was the most powerful dark side user in ROTS. Yoda acknowledged that Obi-Wan is strong enough to fight Anakin, but not strong enough to fight the Emperor. This means Anakin is the weaker of the two. The Emperor even told Yoda that Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of them, meaning he wasn't that powerful yet but would become so in the future.

    I haven't seen what Dooku's level is, but I assume its an 8. Gillard said Mace, Yoda, Anakin, and the Emperor are the only level 9 swordsmen. So Dooku is certainly inferior to Mace in terms of lightsaber skills.
  3. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    Have you played the ROTS game?It shows us what would happend, had Anakin won on mustafar.I think it is pretty obvious that he was on sidious's level.I doubt as powerful as sidious was could you see him killing dooku faster than Yoda.I agree that mace could beat dooku.But that if we compare the two to be insulting to mace is fanboyish.Dooku was once considard to be a great jedi,up there with yoda.And When push came to shove, Yoda was not domnating dooku like Anakin was.
  4. -maynard- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    sound reasoning farrellg
  5. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    Thank you, maynard.

    Have you played the ROTS game?It shows us what would happend, had Anakin won on mustafar

    What happens in the video game isn't necessarily a reflection of what could happen in the films. Video games can take liberties with characters' abilities. For example, Anakin uses force lightning in the video game but not in the film. Its clear from the film and from the OS that Anakin is not at the Emperor's level.
  6. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    Well its not clear otherwise there would'nt be this thread.Anakin looked asthough he was moing far faster than obi wan.
  7. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda acknowledged that Obi-Wan is strong enough to fight Anakin, but not strong enough to fight the Emperor. This means Anakin is the weaker of the two.

    Yoda never acknowledges that Obi-Wan can take Anakin. I think Yoda sent Obi-Wan after Anakin because he trained him and he knew him better than anyone. Again, Yoda NEVER acknowledges that Obi-Wan can take Anakin.

    Lucas said that Anakin could have taken Sidious if he hadn't been maimed. Sidious would have tryed to be agressive against Anakin, and I don't think anyone could have successfully done that on Mustafar, Anakin was too fast and ferocious.
  8. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    At his full potential, Anakin can take anyone. But the thing is, he's not quite there yet. That being said, I think that to protect Palpatine and Padme, he would have focused in the manner that he did against Dooku, and the outcome would be similar.
  9. Droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2000
    star 1


    Why do people think that Anakin is so tough? He took a cheap shot at Mace, he killed a defenseless Obi Wan, he beat up Luke who had never even seen much less participated in a lightsaber battle, he snuck up on and killed Palpatine when he was distracted and in the raid on the Jedi Temple it was Anakin and an entire brigade of troops vs the younglings.
  10. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    A few reasons:

    First off, he pwns Dooku badly and also is know as the "hero without fear" from the Clone Wars.

    Also there is a bevy of quote to back this up:

    "I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The ?phantom menace? refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader?also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction and Qui-Gon are correct?Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor
    himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

    --George Lucas, Cut Magazine interview, 1999

    "On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he (Nick Gillard) said, "Sidious is a level nine [out of ten]. On this film, Obi is eight - he's moved up - Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up there with Sidious"
    Page 133, The Making of ROTS.

    "You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't gotten all beat-up, he could've beat the Emperor"

    From the Making of ROTS, page 205

    I also find it interesting that Lucas always compares everyone to the Emperor. Tells you something about his importance and power.

  11. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    The Dooku comparison still doesn't hold up; he was a Sith Lord, a Sith Lord who took Anakins arm and was behind the Clone Wars. Mace is a Jedi Master; more than that, he's the first Jedi Anakin ever faces - he's the first person Anakin ever truly betrays. Unless you can think of a scenario where Anakins is stripped completely of any conflict, there's no way he can be focused completely.

    You'd have to take away the panic of him betraying Mace, you'd have to take away his reluctance in betraying the Jedi, you'd have to take away his eagerness to be a good Jedi etc etc. You'd have to create a Anakin that isn't a Anakin. Of course he could win in such an idealized world, but it's not realistic; as far as realism goes in this "what if"-scenario :p

    I just think it's bending over backwards way too much to say he's in a any state of mind to take on Mace at that point, if he had gone after the Temple first and THEN faced Mace; then it could truly go both ways, but not here.

    "The conflict man, you gotta have the conflict!"

    - O_F
  12. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    Nic gillard said Ani was ,ore powerful.So thats how it ends.
  13. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda never acknowledges that Obi-Wan can take Anakin. I think Yoda sent Obi-Wan after Anakin because he trained him and he knew him better than anyone. Again, Yoda NEVER acknowledges that Obi-Wan can take Anakin.

    Anakin is more powerful than Obi-Wan, as Lucas, Gillard, and Christensen have confirmed. However, by sending Obi-Wan to fight Anakin, Yoda is acknowledging that Obi-Wan at least has a chance at winning. Unlike facing the Emperor, where Yoda says Obi-Wan isn't strong enough (meaning he has no chance of winning). This indicates that the Emperor is the stronger opponent. Even if you don't believe what Yoda says, the OS Databank says: "Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides." If the Emperor is the most powerful practitioner of the dark side, he must be stronger than Anakin. Also take the Emperor's own words into consideration: "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us." This means Vader isn't more powerful than the Emperor yet. If he was more powerful, the Emperor would've said "Vader is more powerful than either of us" instead of saying he will eventually become more powerful.
  14. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    The reason why Obi wan could take Anakin was because he trained him.Do you realy think Yoda would've sent a Jedi master like Cin Dralleg after Anakin,I dont think so.Also,if you are using the data bank, then Dooku is suppior to Mace.
  15. sabarte Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    Just because Anakin defeated Dooku doesn't make Dooku less powerful.

    Dooku pretty much goes head-to-head in Force power with Yoda in AOTC, and while he doesn't win, he doesn't lose either. For an 83-year-old man who is past his prime, Dooku acquits himself quite well. He doesn't take a scratch from Yoda, even though the muppet outclasses him lightsaberwise.

    I don't know if there's any character in the saga that could survive an RoTS-era joint Kenobi/Skywalker beatdown. In that duel, Dooku takes out one of Gillard's 8s while a 9 is beating on him at the same time. If Dooku's not a 9, he's very borderline. Back in his younger days he was probably a 9 ("With a lightsaber, in the old style of fencing, he had no match.") If Dooku is a lower level swordsman than Mace - eh. Mace is 27 or so years younger. And sheer swordsmanship isn't everything, especially when you're dealing with Jedi. I think Dooku would edge a Dooku/Mace fight. Dooku knows Mace, while Mace doesn't really understand Dooku.

    I was more impressed by the Ani/Obi/Dooku duel then the Mace/Sidious duel, frankly.

    That said - I do not think Dooku can compete with the Emperor. And I think that's because Sidious has beaten Dooku in his head. Dooku's fairly rational, and not given to lost causes. He knows the Emperor's power. The people who do throw themselves at the Emperor are in a way too dumb to know better, and that works in their favor. "Never tell me the odds" :)

    Basically my logic is "if x(usually Mace) is better than Dooku, then why didn't the Jedi send x to take him out". Sort of like my response to the "Yoda/Obi-wan is better than Sidious" partisans. If so, why didn't they go for a rematch?

    In a deathmatch independant of individual history Mace would probably take Anakin. But I think the conflict in Mace over Anakin being the chosen one and his probably trying to subdue Anakin or turn him back during the fight would get Mace killed.


  16. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    At the time of ROTS, Anakin is the most powerful Jedi. He's capable of taking Sidious down by the end.

    The Jedi don't really see it, of course.

    Its too bad he got pwned, he could've been so much more powerful..
  17. sithreaper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2004
    star 3
    If you get the Prima guide to the Revenge of The Sith Video game it has an Interview with Gillard this is what he said

    Obi Wan has gone up one level between TPM & Revenge of the sith but it?s a huge leap

    Anakin has gone up 3 or 4 levels since ATOC

    ?Anakin is unbeatable & knows it?

    Anakins only weakness is that hes on a slope

    So yes Anakin would pawn mace
  18. poker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2005
    star 3
    I disagree. Maybe you are talking about the force push? Most of the time Anakin dominated Obi-Wan. His arrogance and hate blinded him. Obi played him with experience, intelligence and concentration.
  19. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    In the ROTS novelization on page # 153 Mace says "Anakin is the most powerful jedi ever."
  20. lordmorpheus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2004
    star 4
    Hey, on the subject of dooku/windu, this is very interesting. I see or from what iunderstand, qui gon and windu came up in the temple together or reasonably close to each other, meaning that dooku was a master while windu was an apprentice. i think that by now, dooku wouldnt want it with windu. there was a time that dooku and windu (clonewars comix) had a chance to match up but dooku didnt want that direct confrontation. instead, he called on GG to approach windu....but at the pinnacle of ROTS, i doubt very seriously that dooku was windu's equal by that movie.
  21. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    He handeled Windu just.He then called in some magna gaurds to taken care of him becausee he needed to go meet sidious.
  22. sabarte Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    Dooku doesn't seem too worried when he's sitting on the balcony without his saber out and Mace is, like, 10 feet away with his saber already ignited.
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