In terms of success, what did TPM not have from the original trilogy?

Don't forget about Star Wars lunch boxes.

The Spaceballs ones contained Yoghurt. Tasted like plastic though, keeping me sick for a week.

 

I notice that certain posters have opinions which deviate from standard sociological views. This of course makes it more difficult to assess the "level" of criminality in Anakin's Tusken Raider Slaughterfest. From a standard, Western civilization sociological (and statistical) view, what Anakin did to the Tuskens was bad. So most people feel it's strange, weird, downright unbelievable that the Padme character falls in love with him.
Also, the film gives NO HINTS whatsoever that she has fallen for the dude! Because the film BLOWS.

strilo edit: There have been COUNTLESS moderator warnings not to discuss this in here and to keep the thread on topic. Pay attention, please.

 

Darth Meul: " I'd rather not think about weapon platforms invented by a US conservative, revolutional ways of selling (pointless) merchandise and having a supportive array of arcade videogames as a measure of success for a film (more in all stated cases a measure of abusing the success of the films for political/commercial gain). "

Darth_Meul, Drath_Meul, again you miss the point.

Just because you personally have a distaste for said President and said weapons platform, doe not diminish the cultural impact of the OT in helping lay fertile ground for such policy. Which affected the state of the Cold War and thus the state of mind and culture of the world. TPM didn't do that.

Darth_Meul : "How does this compare in success to, not only TPM, but any other film out there? Are there other films you deem less successful because they couldn't get a similar honor? "

Uh, in a cultural affecting manner, yes !
As Sith Sensi Prime said :

"Don't be afraid, the original Star Wars films did have that success and impact. Not every film can be the next Star Wars. "

But in this particular case I'm holding TPM up to the stick.


The toy making revolution you so casually dismiss had a huge cultural impact. It totallly changed the manner in which parents spend money on their children, in manner AND expectation. That has framed attitudes in children and around children in a way that could never have been imagined previously. Look at the money that leaves parents hands following each new 'craze; that comes along. Going to tell me that spend doesn't affect the life and culture of western parents ?Econoics profoundly affects culture in this age I afraid. Try to go shopping for the next kids craze at Christmas time should you doubt it.

The OT brought that around. Is it positive ? Perhaps not, but is it a cultural impact, undoubtably.

And if I wanted to compare the two movies in terms of the impact they had on the toy market I would be justified. Talk to any collecter out there who knows their product history. TPM was expected to bring a renaisance in the toy industry, (which had been flagging a bit, guess parents started to wise up )- or at least a frenzy of buying. Instead the various toy companies etc who had opted in to TPM franchises were hit to the point of bankrupcy as TPM merchandise failed to fly off the shelves in the vast numbers they had expected.
To quote the oft poorly treated Captain Panaka :

"I guess you can kiss your trade franchise goodbye


SHB JR: Look at the thread title. Did I offer an example? Yes.

Darth_Meul :
"If you've read the initial post to this thread, it asks : "What do you think is lacking/overused in the prequels (e.g. CGI, comedy, script, characters, narrative etc)?". Call me silly for a change, but I don't think having a US-weapon platform with the same name (incidentally, can you call any movie that made a comparable "cultural impact" like the weapons platform, and by this making a statement of its success), arcade video games and a new way of merchandising are arguments what the original author is after. "

Yes, but I refer you to my 'Think outside the box' comment.

All the character, CGI etc etc has been done to death and will never be definative, it's too based on on subjective opinion. Why not go in a slightly different direction ?

And again I point out the fact that I avoided a quality issue, betweem the films,stating my points as 'sucesses' that The OT has that TPM didn't have. which you keep missing.


Darth_Meul:
"I'm sure people in the merchandising industry don't see it as pointless, agreed. But I do - I've never been interested in SW the lunchbox, SW the toothpaste and SW the flamethrower (or was that a Spaceballs merchandise-product?)"

That's because again you can't see the forest for the trees. Don't focus on the shiny and annoying products, look at the socail/cultural impact of people buying or not buying them, and how econmoic habits have been formed.

Darth_Meul: " If not, I suppose TPM was a success over ANH because it was the fir

 

Just because you personally have a distaste for said President and said weapons platform, doe not diminish the cultural impact of the OT in helping lay fertile ground for such policy. Which affected the state of the Cold War and thus the state of mind and culture of the world. TPM didn't do that.

Yes, TPM failed in affecting the state of the Cold War and thus the state of mind and culture of the world. Personally, I feel the Cold War should have been prolonged so to give TPM at least a chance in this game of comparison, but nah, nobody listens to me. You know, your whole point made sense, until "TPM didn't do that". And that's my whole beef, as I think we're descending into the unreasonable here.

TPM was expected to bring a renaisance in the toy industry, (which had been flagging a bit, guess parents started to wise up )- or at least a frenzy of buying. Instead the various toy companies etc who had opted in to TPM franchises were hit to the point of bankrupcy as TPM merchandise failed to fly off the shelves in the vast numbers they had expected.

So having good sales alone would have been enough to call it "revolutionising" then? By not selling a predetermined amount of toys, in a flagging toy industry no less, it failed? I would think there's more to 'revolutionising' than just following the rules. Anyway, this aspect of 'cultural impact' goes right beside this SW fan, for the better or worse.

Only if you consider the technical achivements of using digital and the internet harder to achive and more revoloutionally than the film effects and SFX of ANH. And given that ANH effects had to be built largly from the ground up, whereas the achivements of TPM you mention were quite well grounded in comparison. agin the OT pips TPM on the examples you chose.

Why make that convenient comparison - to downplay the "success" of TPM, I guess? If everything, even the unreasonable has to be compared, fine : in terms of paving the way for digital filmtechnology (stroking against the current) and distributing awareness over the net (laying the groundwork for the internethypes, like the one FOTR generated), this TPM-"success" was from a film-standpoint more commendable than making sure every kid owns a little Luke Skywalker-toy that says "feed me powerconverters" when you pull the cord on its back. If you like the literal interpretation of this topic so much, the popularity of its online trailer, and the steady breakthrough of digital cinema is undeniably a "success" that TPM has, not the original trilogy. Personally, I see no need to quickly come up with a convenient comparison to downplay; just summarising should be enough as the realisation itself is commendable.

You'll notice that a topic like this which generally ends in 'I like the PT' and 'I don't like the PT' posts can get a little way laid, when you've been here a while the same old ground gets boring- hence the whole Anakin and the Tuskens debate that popped up, which has at best a tenous link to the original thread post, and in fact about AOTC. My apporach still kept us 'on topic' to degree.

Maybe, while being bored, you should start a thread over which puppet is more whiney, the Anakin or the Luke one. There are probably a lot of people in the position to compare the two, and it would definitely be thinking out of the box because I'm sure noone actually fits in the accompanying box(es), unlike the puppets. I promise I won't interfere because I have nothing to add to such a discussion.

We can go back to the 'same old grind if you like'.

Seems like you need a break out of these forums. Seriously.

 

*sigh* You do have an axe to grind don't you ?

Darth_Meul : "Yes, TPM failed in affecting the state of the Cold War and thus the state of mind and culture of the world. Personally, I feel the Cold War should have been prolonged so to give TPM at least a chance in your game of comparison, but nah, nobody listens to me."

Do you purposly not actually try to read and understand what I post? Seems that way . The point, which is ever so clear,but not quite so handy for a pithy reply, is that the OT actually had some impact on the political atmosphere of it's time , TPm did not. Hence that is a cultral sucess that the OT had over TPM.

The time that TPM was released had it's own political atmosphere, but TPM as a cultural event didn't touch that in even a round about way. The OT did in it's time.

Darth_Meul : "Guess the cultural impact went right beside this SW fan, eh, for the better or worse? "

A lot of things do seem to go right by you........

Darth_Meul: "Why make that convenient comparison - again to downplay the "success" of TPM? In terms of pushing the road for digital filmtechnology (stroking against the current) and distributing awareness over the net (paving the way for the internethypes, like the one FOTR generated), this TPM-"success" was from a film-standpoint more commendable than making sure every kid owns a little Luke Skywalker-toy that says "feed me powerconverters" when you pull the cord on its back."

I notice you now turn the comparison from the groundbreaking effect tech achivements in ANH and TPM to a comparison between TPM's effects and OT toys ?
So I suppose that you have no real response to the argument that in it's time as an impact to the industry ANH broke more technological ground than TPM in it's time ?
How from a film-stand-point the OT still stands as the bigger techical leap ? You'd rather rag on about how much you hate toys ?

hmmm, I sense a person who hates the industrial capitalist system he lives in, getting all het up........

Darth_Meul : "Maybe you should start a thread over which puppet is more whiney, the Anakin or the Luke one. You're probably in the position to compare the two, and you'd definitely be thinking out of the box because I'm sure you don't fit in the accompanying box(es), unlike the puppets. I promise I won't interfere because I have nothing to add to such a discussion. "

Going for gold, eh Darth_Meul ? Just so ya know I'm not a toy collecter, but I sure the insinusations that people who collect are sad will be appericiated by anyone who does. Well done

Besides I'm guessing the topic has been covered in the collecting forum,by people who actually care about that kind of stuff. Fair dues to them.I wouldn't, but I'm not gonna knock them. Once again you're ability to dismiss what you don't understand seems to rear it's unattractive head.

Besides, I'm sure their called 'figures' not 'puppets', but what do I know ? And is the not 'fitting in the box' a comment about my weight !! I'll have you know I'm good for my age, a little too thin actually.... I'm only joking of course, just in case ya miss that too.

Darth_Meul: "Seems like you need a break out of these forums. Seriously. "

Seems like you just got here and already need a break! No need to get so het up. Just breath young fella, no one will force you to buy SW toys or any other evil merchandise. Nor will you have to elect Reagan to your town council.. Relax and read slower ,it aids understanding of subtle tones and cues in other posters msgs.

 

The point, which is ever so clear,but not quite so handy for a pithy reply, is that the OT actually had some impact on the political atmosphere of it's time , TPm did not. Hence that is a cultral sucess that the OT had over TPM.

Impact on the political atmosphere in the lightest sense of the word, yeah, sure. If you celebrate 'cultural successes' like that, knock yourself out.

A lot of things do seem to go right by you........

Strange arguments, for the most part.

I notice you now turn the comparison from the groundbreaking effect tech achivements in ANH and TPM to a comparison between TPM's effects and OT toys ?

Yeah, I turned the comparison between ANH-effects and TPM internet marketing strategy & use of digital camera's (which are on their way of making a huge shift in the movie industry) to that and OT-toys. Because that was a non-comparison as well. A non-comparison followed up a non-comparison.

hmmm, I sense a person who hates the industrial capitalist system he lives in, getting all het up........

It's Luca$ fault.

Going for gold, eh Darth_Meul ? Just so ya know I'm not a toy collecter, but I sure the insinusations that people who collect are sad will be appericiated by anyone who does. Well done

Well, I tried to make a lighter note - it was a joke, or a lame attempt of a joke (I edited the wording to try and make that more clear). We're in a recession, smileys are hard to come by. If collectors can't appreciate a little "wordplay" with "thinking outside of the box", lighten up. And it certainly wasn't a sneer at obese people (though it was a sadistic sneer at grown-up people having a size greater than 10" - sue me!)

Seems like you just got here and already need a break! No need to get so het up. Just breath young fella, no one will force you to buy SW toys or any other evil merchandise. Nor will you have to elect Reagan to your town council.. Relax and read slower ,it aids understanding of subtle tones and cues in other posters msgs.

Thank me for making your day at least enjoyable, as SW filmdiscussion is pretty boring, or so I was told.

 

The only thing I thought TPM didn't have that the classic trilogy did was a chance in hell of pleasing the entire fanbase.

 

I agree. There was something for every fan that TPM wouldn't have that the OT did, but hopefully for the majority of fans the number of things that pleased them about TPM was larger than the negatives. You cannot please everyone, it is a mathematical fact.

 

The only thing I thought TPM didn't have that the classic trilogy did was a chance in hell of pleasing the entire fanbase.

Maybe if it had two US weapons platforms named after itself, though that wouldn't be "revolutionising" the concept, I guess .

 

Darth_Meul :" Impact on the political atmosphere in the lightest sense of the word, yeah, sure. If you celebrate 'cultural successes' like that, knock yourself out"

So, now you get it ! Not entirely silly now eh?
At last But you want to belittle it No pleasing some people. Of course I'll celebrate it.
Sure why not? As a SW fan it's something to be proud of, no other hobby of mine got an aside mention during univercity lectures on the cold war back in my uni days, no other film, or very few can make even small claims similar to even lightly touching the worlds political climate.

Darth_Meul: "Yeah, I turned the comparison between ANH-effects and TPM internet marketing strategy & use of digital camera's (which are on their way of making a huge shift in the movie industry) to that and OT-toys. Because that was a non-comparison as well. A non-comparison followed up a non-comparison. "

It was a tech development impact comparison with a tech development impact comparison. Perhaps the effect of digital cameras will be as big in the future, but not yet.
Sorry you couldn't link them .

SHB JR:A lot of things do seem to go right by you........

Darth_Meul :Strange arguments, for the most part.

But you got it eventually,(or part of it) you need to make yor mind more flexible.

Darth_Meul: It's Lucas fault!

Heh, now that's funny ,ironic and a joke on you and me as a supposed basher, nice, much better


Darth_Meul: Well, I tried to make a lighter note - it was a joke, or an attempt of a joke. We're in a recession, smileys are hard to come by.

You gotta spend smilies to make smilies
And that sense of humour needs as much work as my spelling- ie alot.

Dark_Meul : Thank me for making your day at least enjoyable, as SW filmdiscussion is pretty boring, or so I was told.


Yeah, it can be when parties decide to assume the role of TPM attackers and defenders - rather than looking at the bigger picture. Same old arguments do get boring. So yes certain SW film disscussion has gotten boring, but not all of it.

And yes, thanks Darth_Meul, you've made my afternoon in the office fly by

SHB JR

 

Two weapons platforms !! Let's not go overboard here folks ! But you're right that wouldn't revolutionise things quite enough. Maybe if one of the platforms could transform into something...... Think of the toy possibilities.....

SHB

 

No pleasing some people. Of course I'll celebrate it. Sure why not? As a SW fan it's something to be proud of, no other hobby of mine got an aside mention during univercity lectures on the cold war back in my uni days, no other film, or very few can make even small claims similar to even lightly touching the worlds political climate.

I'm glad you're proud of that. No pleasing some people? The thought alone!

It was a tech development impact comparison with a tech development impact comparison. Perhaps the effect of digital cameras will be as big in the future, but not yet.

So ANH-special FX shouldn't be compared to TPM-special FX, but with its 'revolutionary' internet marketing strategy and practical advancement to capture a movie in general? Yeah, I fail to see the direct link.

Two weapons platforms !! Let's not go overboard here folks ! But you're right that wouldn't revolutionise things quite enough. Maybe if one of the platforms could transform into something...... Think of the toy possibilities.....

Maybe it should have revolutionised weapons platforms by bringing it to the masses. Marketing should have emphasised on the "wipe them out, all of them"-line.

 

Darth_Meul :"So ANH-special FX shouldn't be compared to TPM-special FX, but with its 'revolutionary' internet marketing strategy and practical advancement to capture a movie in general? Yeah, I fail to see the direct link. "

I was talking about the effect of these developments as they influenced the whole industry and how dependant the industry as a whole was upon them in their respective time. Yes, they are very different even for tech developments, but it's a case of : Of these two advances, which was the most useful, nay indispensible to the industry of it's time. The inter-net tech is getting there but not there yet at the same scale. You can use TPM and anh/esb/rotj SFX if you like.

Besides, it was you who brought the inter-net tech into it- if you look back I was originally talking SFX- but I'm able to take inter-net tech into the discussion.
Flexible me

Darth_Meul: Maybe it should have revolutionised weapons platforms by bringing it to the masses. Marketing should have emphasised on the "wipe them out, all of them"-line.

I'd buy one! Hell yeah ! Wouldn't you?!? I'd start with my boss and then the world is my tiny little dot on the rader that i can blow away from space.

SHB JR

SHB JR

 

I was talking about the effect of these developments as they influenced the whole industry and how dependant the industry as a whole was upon them in their respective time. Yes, they are very different even for tech developments, but it's a case of : Of these two advances, which was the most useful, nay indispensible to the industry of it's time.

That's an interesting discussion out of the blue, but I don't see the need for not taking these nice advancements for what they are, and comparing them to another aspect in ways of technical achievement. If there has to be, I would start by discussing how indispensible having the technology is for making huge special-FX blockbusters, while comparing the lower treshold for the masses to make & edit your own film in a professional fashion?

I'd buy one! Hell yeah ! Wouldn't you?!? I'd start with my boss and then the world is my tiny little dot on the rader that i can blow away from space.

Effectively wiping out any cultural impact the original Star Wars made, while floating in your PT-revolutionised battlestation? I'm having a hard time following you, as always.

 

Darth_Meul : Effectively wiping out any cultural impact the original Star Wars made, while floating in your PT-revolutionised battlestation? I'm having a hard time following you, as always.


Yeah,but it'd have the SW logo and it and if it worked well I'd love it anyway. Your assuming I'd not want it just cause it was PT and not OT. I'm perfectly happy to have something PT if it works and is good.


And I'd keep the OT alive im my heart, whilst TPM would be nothing more than atoms, and I'd be free to re-imagine it.... hmmmmm
SHB JR

And my boss would be dead.

 

Darth Meul: "...you should start a thread over which puppet is more whiney, the Anakin or the Luke one."

I vote for the Luke puppet. Dude was clearly bent he didn't get to go to the Toshi Station. The puppet was just one foot stomp away from winning a special effect award.

Go-Mer-Tonic: "The only thing I thought TPM didn't have that the classic trilogy did was a chance in hell of pleasing the entire fanbase."

Oh come on Gomer, don't let your focus that determines your reality be so narrow.


Renaming "Patriot Missles" or any other defense weapons systems "The Phantom Menace" program doesn't exactly inspire or create a sense of Patriotism as for the former. However, Congress may use "The Phantom Menace" to describe the search results for the Weapons of Mass Destruction. [No political message intended. However, if there is one to be construed, those comments do not necessarily reflect those members of this forum or this website].

But yeah, most of these threads can be trite or hackneyed; which is why I took two to three years off. But every once in a while, something comes up that begs members to express this opinion, like flamethrowers and slaughtering Sand People, ya know? total non-sequitur.

 

However, Congress may use "The Phantom Menace" to describe the search results for the Weapons of Mass Destruction.



Or the description of the second Gulf war : "Clone of the Attack"

 

Darth_Meul : "Guess the cultural impact went right beside this SW fan, eh, for the better or worse? "

SHB: A lot of things do seem to go right by you........

OK, let's can that kind of talk right now!

 

Sith_Sensei_Prime-

"As for as the talk about Anakin being dangerous, it's just that... talk."

It's not just talk, it's foreshadowing.

The Jedi Council wouldn't have acted so concerned about Anakin if they didn't believe he was dangerous and besides, I could say the same thing about all the good stuff Obi-wan said about Anakin in the OT because that too is just talk since there is nothing in either TPM or AOTC that supports his words.

"Anakin himself did NOT demonstrate tendencies of a dark lord, within the context of Episode One and thus making Anakin somewhat a one dimensional good man ERRRRRR boy."

To quote Agent Smith from Matrix Reloaded, "Appearences can be decieving".

Just because Anakin doesn't display any tendencies of his future alter ego doesn't mean that he doesn't have them. Plus, while we did see Anakin's fear over being seperated from his mother, we also see traces of his anger when Padme called him a slave and when the Council told him he won't be trained as a Jedi (just look at the expression on his face). Finally, we see him act aggressive towards Sebulba as a way to hide his insecurity when it comes to dealing with a "dangerous dug".

There's your Dark Side tendencies for you.

"Anakin's mother Shmi would agree that there is not choice in leaving the life of a slave."

Would Shmi agree in letting a 10-year old child start a new life alone with no parents, no relatives, being around people that frown on emotional attachments, and having them make their own decisions? No, because that kind of lifestyle could cause severe emotional damage to a child since they are at an age where they lack the ability to think for themselves and rely on their parents for protection.

That is why this IS a choice.

"As for fear and the path do the Dark Side, yes the Original trilogy shows the audience, and Episode One tells the audience."

So that Episodes 2 and 3 can show the audience as a part of progressing the story.

"It is necessary for the first chapter of the Star Wars saga to described The Force as an entity as it is the soul and backbone of the Star Wars epic. Without the original trilogy, the knowledge of the Force is vague and lacking depth, which Episode One does so well with it's presentation of the Force."

Well, TPM has presented us with 2 versions of The Force:

One that centers around the here and now (which Qui-Gon calls it the Living Force) and the other where many people here call it the Unifying Force since it centers around the future. These 2 are what gives the Jedi the ability to see things that happened before and beyond which Yoda already referenced in ESB.

 

PMT
The talk about Anakin being dangerous, is the poorest form of foreshadowing there is. Lucas didn't show Anakin with any real dark tendencies, because as you said in a previous post, (paraphrase) "that's not what this film is about." As for the words of Obi-Wan in the original trilogy (in your words) "...is just talk since there is nothing in either TPM or AOTC that supports his words." Sounds like a complaint of a Basher, that the prequels don't support the ideas and notions of the original trilogy. Just think what EP1 and EP2 would be like if they did support his words.

My statements were that Anakin did not demonstrate any dark tendencies that would conclude he would be the boy that would become Darth Vader, not that he was without them. And Anakin's facial expression is not a trait of the dark side as it's a natural human trait; using that kind of reasoning and logic would have Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon as Dark Lords.

Anakin in Episode One is basically one dimensional character with no real growth and is not the focus of the story. Anakin has a much depth as Jar Jar.

"Would Shmi agree in letting a 10-year old child start a new life alone with no parents, no relatives, being around people that frown on emotional attachments, and having them make their own decisions? No, because that kind of lifestyle could cause severe emotional damage to a child since they are at an age where they lack the ability to think for themselves and rely on their parents for protection."

Why let Anakin go then? Why put your child through severe emotional damage? Hmmmmmmm???

Again, the Original Trilogy shows us the path to the Dark Side, while Episode One tells the audience, "...so that Episode 2 and 3 can show the audience as a part of progressing the story." We're both in agreement here, The Original trilogy shows, and Episode One tells.

Two verisons of The Force? Living Force and Unifying Force? Being the first chapter, how does the audience know that the Living Force is not seperate from the Unifying Force? Is the Living Force at odds against the Unifying Force? Which is the better discipline? Did Episode One even bother to tell the audience about the Unifying Force? Again, the point is, Episode One is vague about The Force and does not describe it to the same detail in the Original Trilogy.

 

I've never understood what the Unifying Force and other Force thing is, people talk about it at great length here at the boards, but it's never once referenced in any of the films.

 

Loco_for_Lucas,
The Living Force was a blurb and the Unifying Force wasn't discussed in the context of the movie. Many use the notion to illustrate a point, but it's usually broken down as grasping at straws since there are no real facts from the movie to support the idea; just assumptions and conjectures.

 

Sith_Sensei_Prime-

"The talk about Anakin being dangerous, is the poorest form of foreshadowing there is."

From your point of view.

"Lucas didn't show Anakin with any real dark tendencies, because as you said in a previous post, (paraphrase) "that's not what this film is about."

And why is it so important for Lucas to show Anakin being as vicious and domineering as he will be later on as Darth Vader when you know damn well that this movie isn't even suppose to come to that point yet. Lucas himself said that Anakin was not born evil and that he wanted to show certain environments that would stray a person over to the path of evil. The evironment that Lucas has given Anakin is the slave mentality, his inability to let go, his strive to defy authority, his quest to be a Jedi, and his future guidance from Palpatine.

We have seen how far this environment has progressed in AOTC and if that's not good enough for you, then that's your loss.

"As for the words of Obi-wan in the original trilogy (in your words) "...is just talk since there is nothing in either TPM or AOTC that supports his words." Sounds like a complaint of a Basher, that the prequals don't support the ideas and notions of the original trilogy. Just think what EP1 and EP2 would be like if they did support his words."

That sounds like the complaint of a diehard OT fan who feels that the prequals should be just like the OT when they should know that the OT only had tiny fragments of information about the prequals' events.

"And Anakin's facial expression is not a trait of the dark side as it's a natural human trait."

But his facial expression was showing anger and last I check, anger IS a trait of the dark side.

"Why let Anakin go then? Why put your child through severe emotional damage? Hmmmmmmm?"

You said it yourself, Shmi didn't want Anakin to live a life as a slave and Anakin didn't actually suffer yet since he had plenty of time to know Qui-Gon before they left but it is only when Qui-Gon is killed did Anakin start having severe emotional damage.

"The Original Trilogy shows us the path to the Dark Side, while Episode One tells the audience."

Actually, TPM did show the path to the Dark Side during the 3-way lightsaber duel when Obi-wan was forced to watch Qui-Gon fight Darth Maul alone since he was trapped in the energy gates. When Qui-Gon was killed, Obi-wan was pissed and he came close to succumbing to the Dark Side had Maul not pushed him down the bottomless shaft.

"Two versions of The Force? Living Force and Unifying Force? Being the first chapter, how does the audience know that the Living Force is not seperate from the Unifying Force?"

Maybe if you payed close attention to the quotes from the opening scene with Obi-wan and Qui-Gon, then you would know what the Living Force and Unifying Force are and how different they are:

QUI-GON: Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs.
OBI-WAN: But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future.
QUI-GON: But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the Living Force, my young padawan.
OBI-WAN: Yes, master.

Qui-Gon's quotes gave a description of the Living Force and Obi-wan's quote gave one for the Unifying Force and are seperate for these reasons:

Living Force=here and now
Unifying Force=the future.

When you watch AOTC, you'd see that the Living Force is the better discipline since Palpatine/Sidious is using the Dark Side to cloud the Jedi's ability to see the future and the Jedi's overreliance on the Unifying Force is what's making them too slow to act on what's happening in front of them. Then when you get to the OT, you'd see why Obi-wan made that description of the Force and why Yoda criticized Luke for looking into the future; "This one, a long time have I watch. All his life as he looked away to the future, to the horizon, never his mind on where he was and what he was doing."

It's all written on-screen, you just have to pay attention.

 

People are way, way, way too hard on TPM. Almost 4 years have passed and the bashing has not ceased. I think it's a great, memorable (in a good way!) chapter of the saga.

When talking about success, I assume that you are not referring to the film's performance at the box office. I know what you are getting at. Yeah, TPM doesn't have the loose feeling of the OT or the same brand of humor. It's enjoyable in a different way. It's a bright, colorful, highly imaginative adventure.

 

Didn't I see you criticizing AOTC in other threads? You're weird.