Lit "In the Shadows of Our Fathers." - The Star Wars: Legacy Re-Read Project

the only time we see him lose control is when Luke and Leia used Force harmony on him. I assume the endnotes are highlighting that when they say he doesn't have "perfect" control. I have no doubt it took him a while to master the ability. but he's the only practioner I know of who could shuttled Luke safely with the Force storm to a cruiser and then the next instance used the Force storm to purposedly consume the NR fleet above Mon Calamari. Just from those two actions alone it seems he's in full control

 

True. Until we see a Jedi, or Je'daii, using The Force to conjure up a Force Storm alone, Palpatine's the only recorded non-item equipped lone conjurer of Force Storms.

Interestingly, Rivan may not be the only one to have successfully conjured up a Force storm with the aid of an item- the Ice Demon in the Ewoks comics uses the Staff of Logray to conjure up a wind-tunnel spell (possibly a small Force Storm):

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ice_Demon

Wait a minute- when in Dark Empire did that happen? I can't find any reference to a Force Storm at Mon Calamari- only one somewhat later, at Pinnacle Base.

 

Im just curious when did the first Force users used the ability and for what means as well. Apparently the ewok is using the elemental version of thus said Force storm

ok we been off topic a bit much, lets fix that. When does Krayt start relying on the vong armor and how old was he by NJO era as well as Legacy era ?

 

According to Wookieepedia he was born in 47 BBY. That would make him 72 or so when he escaped from the Vong in 25 ABY. And he died in 137 ABY - which would make him 184 or so.

 

wasn't that beyond the usual lifespan for a human ? I know they put him on freeze every so often but he must have active during his earlier years as a sith

 

It is. However, some human force-sensitives have been very long lived:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shayoto

 

what was his armor for though ? did it had some lift sustaining properties ?

 

I was under the impression that it was the reverse - that the armour was, slowly, consuming him.

 

but what was the purpose of his armor then ? I thought the same too, that is armor was afflicting him yet I always wonder why wear it at all ? unless there was some benefit of it.

 

I think the Vong implanted it in him without his consent- he wants to remove it but can't.

 

that's probably the one Im referring too.

 

I don't recall but did we get to see him leave the Vong on panel ?

 

We do- in Claws of the Dragon (narration of past events), "on the eve of the invasion" Krayt escapes- we don't see the escape itself- but we do see the Vong ship in which he's escaping, in flight.

 

When he dies n comes back, prior to war what happens to his armor ?

 

The Force Storm is very impressive - even if Sidious can't control it - and it is the thing that gave me the most pause when comparing him and Krayt. But Krayt also has something over Sidious, and that's his mastery over life and death. It's something even Plagueis didn't achieve. Other than its obvious benefit, allowing someone to defy death, it also makes for an incredible offense. It allowed Krayt to easily kill(and bring back) Cade in the last issue of War.

Were it not for FOTJ: Apocalypse, I would place Sidious and Krayt as equals with talents that lie in different areas. In fact I'm pretty sure Sidious would be capable of learning the Dark Transfer and Krayt would be capable of learning the Force Storm. But Apocalypse gave us a means to compare them directly, and that is by using Luke as a measuring stick. Luke was very young and relatively inexperienced in DE. He certainly wasn't in his prime. At the time of Apocalypse Luke had around four decades to grow in power, experience and wisdom. Four decades of pretty much non-stop adventures and life-or-death battles.
And Apocalypse depicted Luke and Krayt as equals.The ultimate champions of Light and Dark, of Jedi and Sith, teaming up to face the greatest threat the Galaxy has ever seen.

I know many don't agree with this development(to say the least) , and feel that Abeloth diminishes Sidious, that it's a case of the EU trying to one-up the movies or whatever. It's probably even true. But them's the proverbial brakes.

 

I sensed a terrible disturbance in the LitForce; who dares to challenge His Imperial Majesty's supremacy?

Luke managing Abeloth is what enabled Krayt to deal decisive damage to her in the first place. For my part, I'm much more impressed with the guy who rides the mechanical bull than the second guy who, meanwhile, walks around and unplugs it.

It takes far more strength and endurance to subdue a powerful enemy than it does to capitalize on the powerful enemy being subdued.

According to whom?

We see Luke struggle immensely with neophytes like Lumiya in LOTF and The Hidden One in FOTJ, both of whom Vader or the Emperor would make quick work. There is an age-old tradition of nerfing Luke in order to escalate dramatic tension. Luke should be beyond the Emperor or Vader by dint of time and training, but he more often under performs.

While Legacy does indeed undermine the import and impact of Palpatine's victory by having Krayt imitate it to some degree, a direct comparison reveals that Sidious's triumph remains more impressive.

As you generously conceded, Palpatine's Empire was more dominant and the Republic it supplanted was stronger. But even beyond that, Palpatine's accomplishments demonstrated a gift for manipulation, perception, and strategy that is heretofore unrivaled in the totality of Star Wars canon. Literally.

The achievements of the Sith between Bane and Plagueis/Palpatine are currently unattested. We have no way of knowing to what extent they aided the Sith imperative; in fact, Darth Plagueis suggests that sabotage by Gravid and failures by Tenebrous actually undermined the Grand Plan. So there's more to suggest that Palpatine's predecessors hindered Sith efforts more than aided.

Meanwhile, Palpatine actively created the circumstances that enabled his ascension. It was he who stoked the flames of corruption in the Senate; arranged the rise of players like Nute Gunray, Poggle the Lesser, and Padme Amidala; and generally orchestrated major galactic events for decades. The development of the two primary Clone Wars factions is directly the result of his scheming.

Quite frankly, the degree to which Palpatine authored, staged, and directed his own rise to power and all it entails is mind-boggling. There's no one who, so far, comes remotely close to that degree of Magnificent Bastardry. Not Plagueis, not Vitiate, not Krayt.

The last of whom, in comparison, merely exploited a galaxy already undone by Palpatine's depredations and those of the Yuuzhan Vong. Then, in the end, all he did was stage a coup. Though impressive by most measures, Krayt's gambit is child's play next to the Emperor's masterful erosion and subversion of democracy.

Among Sith, Krayt is very successful (though that's really not saying much). And indeed, he demonstrates enormous power. But Sidious by and large outclasses him in the realm of personal achievement and Sith power.

Palpatine is a master of all forms of lightsaber combat (The Clone Wars Complete Episode Guide) who defeated three of the Jedi order's most "celebrated swordsmen" (The Complete Visual Dictionary); effortlessly conquered Savage Opress and Darth Maul, the latter being consistently named as one of the "most highly trained and dangerous Sith in history" (The Ultimate Visual Guide, The Star Wars Fact File Remake #1, etc.); and bested Yoda, "perhaps the greatest lightsaber master the Jedi order has ever seen" (Star Wars Insider #62: "Fight Saber").

Though enormously talented as a swordsman, Palpatine's Force mastery is even more profound. In terms of Force knowledge, he's arguably unparalleled, having gathered "the greatest works of knowledge from over a million worlds" and "studied the Force in all its guises throughout the galaxy" (The Dark Empire Sourcebook).

As has been stated, he is the only known master of the Force storm technique: an ability that allows him to "tear the surfaces off worlds" (The Dark Empire Sourcebook), fold space/transmigrate objects (The Book of Sith), and devour fleets (Dark Empire). According to The Essential Guide to the Force, Palpatine can trigger such storms with "mere thought and inclination."

Additional manipulation of the Force on a planetary scale would have to include his psychic enslavement of the 19.8 billion denizens of Byss (The Essential Atlas) after transforming the planet into "one of the strongest dark side sites in the galaxy" ("Byss and the Deep Core") as well as his role in the secret burial of the Super Star Destroyer Lusankya beneath Coruscant's surface, facilitated by his "mind fogging powers" (The New Essential Guide to Characters).

More impressive still is Palpatine's galactic effect on the Force as witnessed by his ritual alongside Plagueis that resulted in the balance of the Force yielding to the dark side (Darth Plagueis). Palpatine would then go on to further amplify this effect: The Ultimate Visual Guide states that he conducted further rituals from Coruscant that created "unnerving ripples in the Force" and served to increase Jedi anxiety across the galaxy ("Sithisis"). By the time of the Battle of Endor, Palpatine was very literally the living conduit of the dark side. So much that with his death, the dark side was "diffused" and "nondirected" and wreaked havoc on the Imperial war machine (Return of the Jedi).

Most impressive of all is that the Dark Empire endnotes confer upon Palpatine a description only closely matched by Abeloth herself: "a chaotic nexus" of Force energy.

On a more pedestrian scale, Palpatine has reduced enemies to ash (Star Wars: Empire: Betrayal, Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison, Sithisis) some of whom were even powerful Force users (Star Wars Tales: Resurrection). He effortlessly outmatched the combined telekinesis of Maul and Opress, who (between them) have ragdolled starships ("Revival, "Witches of the Mist"), collapsed caves and tunnels ("Revival," Death Sentence), throttled such esteemed personages as Obi-Wan Kenobi ("Revival, "The Lawless, Sith Hunters) and Count Dooku ("Witches of the Mist"), shattered prison cells by flexing arms ("Shades of Reason"), and instigated massive Force repulses ("Witches of the Mist, Death Sentence). He's moved at supernatural speeds, even among Jedi and Sith (Episode I: Darth Maul Journals, Revenge of the Sith). He's physically strong enough to overpower Maul and Opress individually and united ("The Lawless"). He's so powerful that Vader's wrath, powerful enough to crush durasteel, "cannot touch" him (Revenge of the Sith). Lastly, Starkiller, who has more ridiculous feats than most characters despite only appearing in a grand total of two sources, "was no match for the power of Darth Sidious" (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia).

TL;DR version: Krayt is very successful and very powerful and has Palpatine topped in some respects (e.g., shatterpoints, physical immortality, etc.), but Palpatine is demonstrably a far superior strategist and manipulator and his Force mastery is broadly greater.

 

"Yes, to Jon Stewart you listen to."-Yoda

Sable_Hart, personally I would think "all of the deceased Jedi are necessary" just to keep Sidious contained in the netherworld of the Force, is a feat that no Sith has ever match and probably never will

If Krayt really is master of life and death, how come he's dead at the end of War ?

 

That's true too.

 

I think the armor was attached to him- the Vong experimented on him, gave him an organic prosthetic as well as a Vong eye. He replaced some of it later with more conventional mechanical stuff later, but the whole point of him needing Cade's ability for most of the comic was to save him from the Vong organism that were slowly consuming him. I think of it as him using what he had- the Vong armor is useful, and he can't get rid of it anyway. The One Sith experimented quite a bit with Vong tech, especially Maladi, and part of it was probably meant to try and separate Krayt from the Vong.

There are ways for Force users to live longer, darksiders especially have probably looked into a lot of possible ways, and Krayt spent time in stasis too. According to the flashback, he broke out shortly before the Vong openly invaded and then started setting up his Sith army. He probably spent a lot of time in stasis and attempts at healing, but its not until he sees Muur's technique that he finally learns how to get rid of the Vong armor. I think the Vong armor was left in that stasis field? Not entirely sure, been a while since I read those issues, but I think Wyrrlok walked in one day to check on his body and found only the armor? Then after he sends out search parties to find their "poor, weakened lord" and to "help" him, then he blasts the armor in frustration that somehow Krayt has possibly returned after he killed him.

Who knows how much time Krayt really spent in stasis though. I think it was mentioned that the Wyrrloks were usually Krayt's spokeperson while he was in stasis, and his most loyal, until the current one started getting ideas after seeing just how weakened Krayt was.

 

He spent time, not in stasis per se, but in a tomb, receiving tutelage from XoXaan- came out of it to find that Darth Sidious was dead- went into the Unknown Regions, was captured, implanted, and talked to by Vergere, and "escaped on the eve of the invasion".

He only started going into stasis after the Vong War.

 

did Krayt ever recruit people from the Lost tribe of the Sith?

 

Or not, since I am pretty sure they managed to get themselves killed.

 

OK, time to kick this forward once more....

Volume 6: Vector

A shorter arc than usual, this was bundled with the final Rebellion arc, Volume 4, and collected as Vector: Volume 2 - simple, no?

It is a smart and pivotal set of episodes in Legacy's overall tale and not just in the ending. It starts off with Cade and co, including the insufferably arrogant Antares and the far more reserved and cooler Krieg along for the ride, heading off to assassinate Krayt. They get ripped out of hyperspace by a very creepy Star Destroyer, one that disappeared 10 years earlier. They encounter Rakghouls and Morne, who sees no way to save them from the plague - so Cade uses his Get Out Of Fatal Death Free super-healing card, in response to which Morne allies with him.

We get a further indication of the darkness lurking in Fel's heart when he orders the Knights to secure the Muur Talisman, this then leads to a charged conversation between Antares and Krieg, where we learn the Emperor does not command the Knights' loyalty unconditionally, indeed if an Emperor turns to the dark side the Knights are bound to depose or slay the Emperor! In these scenes, for all his bluster, Antares comes across as far weaker to the walking, calmly quiet bad-ass that is Krieg.

It's Cade who notices that the Talisman is affecting them all - invoking fears and insecurities across the board, until he confronts Morne, who is forever duelling with Karness Muur for control of the Talisman. They set up a subterfuge to lure Krayt to Had Abaddaon.

Legacy does its confrontations quite well and this battle is no exception as Cade, the Knights and Morne attack Krayt, Maladi, Talon and Stryfe. As the confrontation nears its peak, Maladi and Krayt get the edge on Morne with a combined barrage of Force Lightning, until Azlyn intervenes, which enables Morne to retort with a lightning tempest of her own, which also consumes Azlyn. Krayt is flung off the cliff to his death, while Cade and co depart, with a mortally wounded Azlyn being kept alive by Cade. The Knights get left behind due Fel ordering them to go after the Talisman, which Cade has destroyed.

Cade again gets the dark side calling to him and again refuses it because he isn't interested in what it offers - the dark side is a highly persistent sales force, despite repeated rebuffs, it just doesn't get that Cade doesn't give a toss.

Then there's the end, with Wyrrlokk finding the dying Krayt.... and finishes him off! This is where Legacy really took a turn for the interesting and it's a shame Krayt did return, because offing the main villain mid-way through really makes Legacy stand off; if he's not really offed, then the move no longer works.

 

This is totally necroing; please bear with me.

After a long hiatus from the JCF and actively consuming Star Wars media in general due to school, I'm back here. Legacy has been my favorite series since I started reading, so I was super excited to somehow find this thread. I found this earlier today and have been steadily going through all the posts. It's really interesting how the opinions are from re-reading. Thanks for doing this!

The last post is from Vector and last year. Is this project still going, Charlemagne19?