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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit "In the Shadows of Our Fathers." - The Star Wars: Legacy Re-Read Project

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Charlemagne19, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    On my end, I always felt it was a missed opportunity that we never got the chance to see what the One Sith's culture was like. We get hints here and there but it's, essentially, one gigantic "Family" of Darksiders with Darth Nihl and a few others acting as unwanted in-laws. I would have loved a mini-series detailing how members of the OS are recruited, get raised, and what exactly binds them together.

    There's also room to ask what exactly makes them all bloodthirsty psychopaths. Is it the Dark Side? The influence of Darth Krayt (who is a bloodthirsty psychopath)? The teachings of the Ancient Sith? Some combination of the above? It's an interesting question which deserves to dived into.

    Then again, I'm an admitted fanboy of the Dark Siders.

    You raise a very good point about Darth Krayt's psychology and I have my own theory, which dovetails into yours. My theory, more or less, is that A'Sharad Hett is more or less the same sort of person that Anakin Skywalker is/was. He was the son of a revered Jedi Master, the best of a generation, brought up in an environment which was distinctly outside the Jedi Order. For a time, A'Sharad Hett was with the Jedi but I don't think he was ever quite as one of them.

    His fall is a quieter one when he decides to learn from the Sith because he no longer believes in the Jedi way and believes only the Dark Side will save the galaxy.

    An interesting thing about the Tusken Raiders is the EU tends to portray them as Native American EXPYs while George Lucas wanted to write them as "How Native Americans were depicted in cowboys and indians stories." I.e. a lot more violent and savage. The victimizers as opposed to the victimized. Personally, I prefer to think of my Jedi raised by Tusken Raiders as like Tahiri as opposed to A'Sharad Hett but that's a personal preference.

    Whatever the case, A'Sharad Hett likes to surround himself with a tribe and that just switches from the Tuskens to the Jedi to the One Sith. You might make a serious argument Krayt's Sith are what you get when you combine Tusken Raider values with Jedi Ones. Unfortunately, that vilifies the Tuskens quite badly.

    I'm also inclined to believe that Wyrrlock's betrayal affected Krayt almost as much as nearly dying did. Much like Count Dooku, Krayt really can't PARSE that he was betrayed by his second-in-command like that so it drives him even more coocoo for cocoa puffs than before. It's why he intends to unleash his terror attack on the galaxy. He is face-to-face with the proof that his Sith Order has absorbed not the lessons HE wanted to impose but the ones of the Old Ways--seemingly by osmosis.
     
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  2. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    I remember the excitement when I heard about Legacy #0. I hadn't joined the boards then or gotten that interested in Star Wars fandom (didn't care that much for the NJO), but I remember the summer of... 2006 (?) looking through Wookieepedia hoping for more information. Seeing the first pictures of the Legacy era ships was a highlight, with the Pellaeon-class Star Destroyer (I remember it was mislabeled as Super Star Destroyer originally, I think?). The Galactic Alliance didn't get much of a focus early on, and even by the end, with the occasional non-Cade issue, I wish the GA Remnant had gotten more focus.

    Cade was... an ok character. He's basically a pirate, but its clear he has a few ethics left that haunt him. Don't care about Deliah much, but Jariah was really cool, with the Vong weaponry and his anti-Jedi stance, yet he was also quite good friends with Cade. Well, Jariah didn't know Cade was a Jedi (technically only a trainee) but still. Compare to Cade Jariah definitely brooded left, though Cade probably had more issues. He wanted to save his master and then basically manifested one of those super special powers that always make people target. Battle meditation used to be a big thing, now its Cade Force lightning healing when of course the current Lord of the Sith could really, really use a healer.

    I think A'Sharad had a lot of bitterness, desperation and rage mixed up in him, which led to him becoming Krayt. He was originally a Tuskan, which affects his world view, but the Clone Wars really did a number on him, though he survive. He probably does believe in bringing order to the galaxy, as he was a Jedi, but though he won't quite admit it, revenge on the galaxy for their betrayal of the Jedi at the end of the Clone Wars probably plays a part. Nihl is probably my favorite of the major Sith, as he wasn't born on Korriban as part of the One Sith. I wish we could have seen how Krayt recruited him, out in the Unknown Regions where he used to be a warlord. Never cared much for Darth Talon, as most of the time she had the personality of a doorknob. Not to mention she just wouldn't die. What's the point of having a very violent protagonist like Cade if he won't actually behead anyone and just gives generic stab wounds (which never kill anyone important). But that's probably just plot armor.

    I remember Marasiah, she seemed like an interesting character- a new Princess, youngest member of the Fel dynasty (that we know of anyway), and with Roan Fel entrenched on Bastion, she was his representative. Just too bad we didn't see that much of her over the rest of the series. We saw Roan Fel regularly, but not much of Sia. And Astraal never even showed up again after the first arc, though she was mentioned once, but her brother played a relatively large role for the rest of the series.

    I agree with you C19 if Cade had had more of a choice in things, I probably would have found him more tolerable. Yeah, he has had a nasty life (seeing his father die in front of him, although at least Kol died like a badass, literally standing on top of a small mountain of dead Sith and stormtroopers). Destiny comes calling, whether the character is ready or not, and sometimes characters can fail their test (as Anakin did when he fell in RotS), but its annoying for Cade to be so literally... not quite sure anointed is the word, but even more than Luke, Cade gets the special healing power when Krayt is in dire need of healing. And Wolf Saen has a vision of a Skywalker, and Cade is the last one, so off they go. Except Cade isn't the last, just that the last ideal Skywalker (probably Kol) is dead by then. If Wolf was just worried about his former student, that's one thing, but its funny that for most of Legacy, the Force says Cade has to go defeat Krayt and Cade says he'd rather stay out of the whole thing. Which is too bad, as I liked Wolf a lot, he has that samurai vibe going on a bit, especially with having only one arm and just looking very... monk-like. Compared to the much grimmer Shado.

    Krayt took over a bit too quick for my taste, since he basically just held forced the Moffs at gunpoint (well, lightsaber point, sort of) to kneel and swear allegiance to him and that's it. And while I can understand Calixte keeping Veed around as an easy pawn to manipulate and public figurehead to rule, she probably had to put up with a lot of his idiocy over the years. He only rarely comes up with an original idea.

    Broken is probably still one of the better arcs of Legacy, and I look back fondly on it, but between that and Commencement, I much prefer Commencement. Although its thanks to Legacy that I started buying Dark Horse Star Wars comics on a monthly basis (branched out from just buying Legacy to getting KotOR too, and still regret not having bought any KotOR single issues when I had the chance), so that's another reason I remember that year fondly. Although Legacy volume 2's lack of Cade is a major plus for me. Its not that I hate Cade's character, just that I don't miss him and just wish so many of Legacy's other more interesting characters hadn't been shoved to the side in favor of more miniscule character development on Cade's part. Wouldn't mind seeing Jariah pop up again though, he had gotten even cooler by the end of the series.

    EDIT: The funny thing about the One Sith is that outside of Wyrrlok, not sure many other One Sith showed independent thought. Sure, Nihl tried at one point but he was beaten down and submitted again pretty quickly. It looked like Maladi was plotting, but she still served Krayt's plans at least up until War, but many of the other Darths lived and died for Krayt. Perhaps if the series had lasted longer we could have seen a few more major named Sith with personalities (so not Stryfe) choose sides, but alas, it wasn't to be.
     
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  3. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    I find this particular take on Darth Nihl of interest. You talk about first impressions - well the first impression of Darth Nihl is that of him cutting down Cade Skywalker's master, Wolf Sazen, in one on one combat. Being that Wolf is one of the last two Jedi standing on Ossus I'd say he is presented as someone of importance. Heck, Kol Skywalker was comfortable having Wolf train his son, more points in his favor.

    Wolf Sazen is not a nobody.

    As for Nihl being "cowardly" - Why did he go to Ossus? Was it to have honorable one on one combat with the leader of the Jedi Order? Or was it to kill the leader of the Jedi and crush the Order? He accomplishes exactly what he was tasked with doing by Krayt. Results are what should matter, not fairplay.

    I agree this was a great scene which establishes Krayt in excellent fashion. He basically kills five Imperial Knights himself which really sets him up as a force right from the get go.

    Yet the turmoil caused by allowing Roan Fel to escape forever haunts the One Sith. It is like Ossus, only a failure. Maybe Nihl should have been in command?[face_devil]

    I love the idea, but slow down. One a day needs to be one a day, not one every twelve hours :p
     
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  4. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Yeah why not? I mean if you consider what happens, not really a lot, the only thing of lasting consequence it established was that there were still Imperials around.

    If they read the initial run at let’s say 14 they would be 34 at that time Leg #1 came out ;) I think they would just do a little research.

    Not really, since like any good prophecy you can take the wording in any of a million directions.

    Thing is... if any of their enemies every truly win they would all get killed off, be it Sith, Imperials, Vong, CIS, Mandalorians, or the Pius Crusaders, the Jedi are just too much of a problem for them to keep around. Either you tell stories that effect the order as a whole, or you have to tell them on really small scales (which I personally do not mind and has worked well in many cases) but clearly will not work that well if you want to tell a epic tale like Leg clearly wanted.

    With a little Tsavong Lah thrown into the blender. ;)

    With a clearly better design choice and I think him failing is done rather on purpose as it certainly helps explain his motivations and constantly pushing himself beyond what he seems really able to do.

    PTSD ?

    Interestingly enough the GA was apparently not planned to have a big part in Leg, only that Stazi was so popular made them more prominent.

    And his army or let’s say the parts of the Imperial army that will later flock to his banner ;)

    Or even more of an ass. ;)

    Interestingly enough there is Moff Jerjerrod who at least in the novel dared to question the Emperor about the command to fire on his own troops, when he was told to target the Endor Moon. Also it always helps a story if not all your enemies are complete bastards, as it is just more realistic.

    Or that Zeltros are simply that renowned. ;)

    I always took the “loyal” to mean “loyal to Krayt and his commands”, if he wants one of them gone, so be it.

    Except that he would not get within 150 miles of him because the Sith would butcher him, whilst they want Cad. Same thing happens to the Emperor, if Luke really was out to try and hunt him down there is no way in hell he would even get close, without the Emperor wanting him to.
     
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  5. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I remember how Gar Stazi was a breathe of fresh air in the comic when he showed up. It'll be covered more later but his appearance was so unambiguously heroic, so reminscent of the Rebel Alliance, and so badass it was a breathe of fresh air. I think people had forgotten that the Black and White Good vs. Bad of the OT was one of the major reasons for Star Wars' success. Either that or they'd envisioned a larger role for the Empire only to discover the Imperial fanboys weren't quite as numerous as they thought.

    I agree, I wish we could have seen more of the various Sith and their interactions. Star Wars: Legacy is such a vivid and fascinating world, it's sad that Star Wars: Legacy feels the need to essentially, "Reboot" itself for new readers. I want to see more characters from the original SAGA to return and I always felt a Cade Skywalker novel would be good. The lack of supporting material for the Legacy setting is sad. JADEN KORR gets 2 novels but we don't get two for Cade. It's sad.

    I admit, it's weird. Does she object to her father's political views? Does she believe in recruiting the Jedi? Does she want to get down and dirty fighting the Sith? There's a lot of stuff we could have seen but we don't get that. Now that she's Empress, she's also become a shapelier Roan Fel 2.0 and that's just tragic. Of course, I wanted to see Cade Skywalker and her hook up and was disappointed when they revealed that the two of them together was a coloring mistake.

    Kissing cousins!

    I maintain that if Cade had been a bounty hunter who just happened to be named Skywalker and provided the Everyman By Way Of Boba Fett perspective on the story, it might have been more interesting. My favorite part of WAR is strangely the part where Cade reveals he's accepting cash for Sith bounties. He didn't need to be the Chosen One to have an immense role in the story and I think him as the "scummy Skywalker" wasn't necessarily a bad thing. It just became all about him irregardless of whether he was the guy suited or wanted or cared.

    It puts it into perspective a lot of our complaints can be summarized as, "There is too much interesting stuff here for 55 issues to cover." We need more breathing room to flesh out everything and everyone. A pity with the licensing change-over, it's too late to get a petition for Legacy: Nihl like Jedi: Dooku.

    If Nihl had defeated Wolf then Kol Skywalker then he would have cemented his badass credentials. Unfortunately, sending a small army to distract Kol Skywalker before blasting him from behind isn't exactly the mark of a character who is all that capable. Yeah, he's out to massacre the Jedi but Nihl's consistent losing left and right makes it hard for us to consider him a formidable threat.

    Darth Maul nearly ran down a nine-year-old with his Space Motorcycle but he killed Qui Gon "square" and that's why we wanted him back.

    All we got from Nihl was he dressed Emo (appropriate for a Nagai as they are the planet of Emo Albino Drow--no, wait, nevermind that's Melnibone), was vaguely disloyal to Darth Krayt, and was supposedly toughed but couldn't defeat any Skywalker worth a damn.

    Updates are, from this point on, scheduled for 12:00 Eastern barring delays. I'll try to keep to this schedule.

    I'll handle Gorefiend's comments later today.
     
  6. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Oh yeah, I remember back during the first year or so of Legacy I thought Cade and Marasiah might make for an interesting couple. I think you were one of those interested in that idea too, C19? Marasiah seemed to show the most personality in the Broken arc, like later on when she's chatting with Cade. Even if it was just playing him, its still more than the "arrogant, distant negotiator" we get for most of the rest of the series. It was also a nice contrast, Cade and Marasiah with their legacies. They barely encountered each other once more in the comic, I think, so was sad we never got to see them compared again once Cade started getting his act together.

    Speaking of the cousins thing, years ago we had no idea who Marasiah's mother was (or whether they would even bother with giving her a mother, as usually not everyone's backstory is ever that complete), but we had the general idea that Cade was descended from Luke (of course) and Marasiah was descended from Jaina, so they were probably distantly related. But near the end, I think we found out Marasiah's mother was from Hapes, a member of the royalty there? So that means Roan married someone who was also sort of related? Although it sets up an interesting parallel, Jaina probably help found the Fel dynasty, and Jacen sort of became part of Hapes royalty too. Although I think DNT and LotF came out at almost the same time as the Legacy comics, but Jacen and Tenel Ka were already somewhat a canon couple.

    I remember hearing that the GA was originally going to just play a minor role, and I can still see that by the end, as it basically comes down to Cade vs. Krayt with almost everything else as background, especially with the almost literal personality cult Krayt has built up around himself. Which is a shame as I looked forward to every GA issue. Roan Fel was cool, but he was somewhat morally ambiguous at times, which led to his fate. Stazi was just so clear-cut. But then the whole atmosphere of Legacy leans heavily towards a main group of protagonists and Fel Imperials against Sith. Even volume 2 still has a bit of that pattern.

    The Sonic the Hedgehog comic had a spin-off/parallel series called Sonic Universe which was basically a second series that focused on various other plots in the same universe (and both are still running). If only Legacy could have expanded like that, but it was not to be given how the main series was cut short.
     
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  7. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Yeah, the Yuuzhan Vong war is necessary to Star Wars: Legacy but even that could have been passed over. They could have really had Darth Krayt blame the Jedi or other parties for something much less EU-centric and the story would have worked equally as well. It's to their credit they decided to tie it so hard with Del Ray's major series.

    It makes the back and forth over canonizing the stuff in Legacy kind of strange.

    I'm comfortable with Darth Sidious being the imbalance in the Force versus the Banite Order. However, "canon" *finger wag* says otherwise. Which is one of the reasons why I disdain 100% fidelity to it. Sometimes, you've just got to say an idea is stupid and didn't happen.

    Really, for those kind of epic stories you just need the Jedi Order preoccupied or overrun. I think, though, people got too used to the idea of the Jedi Knights being immortal. It took the Clone Wars to realize there was only so much an individual Jedi could do.

    "No one can kill a Jedi."
    "I wish that were true."

    Me too, Qui Gon.

    It was a good change but I wonder how much Legacy could have been if they'd given everyone room to breathe. Maybe made the thing a full 100 book series.

    I don't think it's possible for Morlish Veed to be more of an ass.

    I totally agree.

    Well that's why they'd have a WAR against the Sith. I remember reading Star Wars: Revan and I think someone needs to revive that Discussion thread because where did the idea that you're supposed to make a B-line straight towards the Evil Overlord come from? You don't go after Sauron directly, you widdle down his armies first.

    Well, hopefully the Hapans they married weren't the Djo line because that'd be a little TOO banjos meets Hapsburgs.

    Cade Skywalker and Marasiah Fel are characters who'd have made a very good couple, I think. If she actually was an idealistic crusader type, then we might actually have someone for Cade to bounce off of. The problem is Cade Skywalker's bull-headedness meant he was either antagonistic to people trying to get him to man-up (Wolf, Shado, Luke) or supported in his life of crime (Jariah, Deliah).

    "You think a Princess and a guy like me?"
    "No."

    I think I'd like a Cade Skywalker/Marasiah mini-series. That'd be fun. Too bad it's unlikely to happen.

    Really, my biggest disappointment with Marasiah is one of the larger ones I had with Legacy in that it seemed the writers had some TRULY GREAT ideas but were more interested in the characters on the edge rather than those with strong more compasses. My favorite characters are Wolf, Shado, Gar Stazi, and Master Sinde. Master Sinde displayed more Jedi compassion and nobility during his issues than the majority of Luke's Jedi did during FOTJ and LOTF put together.

    Marasiah and her handmaiden seemed the same way but they sort of dropped out of the story.
     
  8. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    But then, from a story telling perspective, he is suddenly more capable than Krayt is. Why is Krayt in charge, Nihl killed all the big names?

    Also "consistently losing left and right"? We are on issue #1 :p Even if we incorporate #2 where we see Wolf Sazen cutting down One Sith on the spooky planet, that just adds to Nihl. He defeated this guy who is cutting down other One Sith in no time flat. That has to be worth something.
     
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  9. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    We're still a little bit away from Cade Skywalker defeating Darth Krayt but my reaction to that can be summarized at this.

    [​IMG]

    Awwww Hell Naw!

    Seeing Krayt defeated by Cade was AWFUL.

    It suddenly made the Skywalker Magic Mitochondria an invincibility cheat code. Krayt should have owned Cade like Palpatine did Starkiller.

    Defeating Wolf keeps Nihl from being a complete chump but not being able to defeat Kol Skywalker keeps him from being truly impressive.
     
  10. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Actually Charles Krayt's defeat is really just paying homage to that most traditional of SW themes - an overconfident villain!

    If we're talking of who should have killed who then:

    Maul should have quit playing and killed ObiWan in the shaft
    Dooku should have quickly done both Anakin and ObiWan on Geonosis
    Sidious should have started off with the Fatally Well Done Deep Fry setting on Luke, then he'd still have his dog
    C'Boath didn't kill Mara Jade

    It's a long line of oh-so-cocky "HAH! I CANNOT POSSIBLY LOSE! I HAZ UNLIMITED POWAZS" type villains meeting their demise in ways they simply could never see coming. Krayt's just the latest.
     
  11. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    I will wait to touch more of this particular topic until we hit issues 9-10 (which introduced Stazi) and issues 20-22 (which rally kicked off the GA as a major player in the series), but your comments are dead on. There is no doubt that Legacy evolved during its first year. Some decisions, like promoting Stazi & the GA to be part of the main secondary plot, were great. I do think that there was an element that initially thought a "good Empire" could be the sole protagonist, but it was obvious a large segment of fans wanted that old OT-era vibe of the Rebellion. Enter Stazi and the Alliance Remnant and the whole feel of the era suddenly felt right.

    As for Cade, I frankly still struggle with how I feel about him. Early on, I was rooting for him to overcome his demons, embrace his heritage, and become a Jedi. But this never really happened and I think that, hindsight being 20/20, it would of made sense to have Cade's story end with more personal growth. Now that we will be re-reading the series, it will be interesting to see if my feelings change or not.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  12. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Am I the only one here who would have preferred Krayt not have resurrected and Wyyrlok remain the villain?
     
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  13. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Still since it was such a major event and provided a perfect background, they would have been stupid to not use it.

    By whom?

    Krayt is not a Banite Sith by any means, he is not even that much of a Sith, he is much more of an Jedi gone bad who builds an new Jedi Order in his image, which he just happens to call Sith.

    I never really did, they make great hero figures, but still clearly need people to help them, they are guardians of the people of the Republic but the Jedi are not the Republic. Destroying them as heroes and symbols of hope and guardians of the people, whilst recasting his military in that role was one of the more profoundly disturbing things the Emperor got done.

    Blue and Sin would certainly have gotten a lot more to do, though I have to admit I just love Stazi way too much for wanting him cut.

    Well he could have just suddenly stopped wearing pants and kept mooning the reader, but short of that, yeah he would be hard pressed.

    Which is especially ironic given the Kotor plots.


    To a degree, I would actually have favored Wyyrlok sticking around longer and then getting replaced by Krayt again, which propely was the intention, alas the series was cut short.
     
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  14. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Well if they didn't have to end Legacy at issue 50 Wyyrlok would have been the villain IU for quite a while. Would have been fun to see.
     
  15. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Nope, I liked the direction that he was going in and would have been quite happy to have him be Villain Numero Uno.
     
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  16. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I get that, but Cade Skywalker's ability to defeat Krayt in a Lightsaber duel just felt like it undervalued our villain. It established why Cade Skywalker was the guy who COULD save the galaxy but it felt unearned and devalued hard work. Weirdly, it reminded me of the Percy Jackson movie where the well-trained daughter of Athena gets curb-stomped because Poseidon is a bigger god than her and his son automatically gets more ability.

    I think Dark Horse comics overestimated how much the fandom liked the Galactic Empire as antiheroes versus them as actual protagonists. At the end of the day, a lot of us still felt that the Star Wars series was about promoting a democracy so the idea of the "main good guys" being an absolutist monarch who destroyed a democracy was sort of problematic. Roan Fel winning still destroys the New Republic's legacy forever.

    Not much else to say but "I agree" and that I look forward to your Cade thoughts.

    Not at all. I don't think Darth Wyyrlok was capable of handling WAR with suitable epicness. However, I thought Darth Krayt's death was fine as is. I also felt Darth Wyrrlok was infinitely more interesting than every Sith BUT Krayt.

    (Sorry for mispelling his name, guys)

    Well, it's the law of diminishing returns.

    [​IMG]

    The more the EU needs you to have read something prior, the smaller the pie chart slice gets.

    Eh, the Sith are mostly just "what we call Dark Jedi" anyway.

    Yeah, killing Malak there isn't the goal. It's stopping the Star Forge. Killing Malak is just a bonus.

    I thought it made sense (before the stupid retcons) that when you killed Malak, that was good but new Sith Lords from Malak's Order took over.
     
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  17. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004

    Sure but they keep having different approaches which is rather interesting. Most of the time they go with some kind of an Empire with what are essentially Feudal Lords below the head honcho Sith, sometimes they get along, other time they are at open war. Then comes Bane who takes the whole thing underground with just two of them. Palpatine sort of sticks to that until he just plans to become the Dark Side incarnate.

    Krayt by contrast reforms the Sith as a tightly knitted group based in a single temple and with him as their head and getting sent out on missions by him, with most of his Sith getting trained from birth, which is a lot like the Jedi Order he actually was once part of.

    Thing is, you can still read Leg without need to have read the NJO but will likely actually get interested in reading it to figure out what happened there.
     
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  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    2 things I'd throw in:

    1. The hard work for Cade was in getting to a point where he could actually defeat Krayt, that he could deserve to defeat him - saving the galaxy was a bonus.

    2. The duel at the start of WAR between Krayt and Wyrrlokk effectively sets up matters as being beyond "mere Jedi duelling games"! Krayt takes out Wyrrlokk by out-duelling him on the plane of Force illusions, where Wyrrlokk considered himself unassailable due to his defeating of Darth Andeddu. Krayt, in turn, also considers himself unassailable and never considers the notion of what might happen if a healed Cade Skywalker was to fight him. He finds out the hard way.

    Frankly without the interventions of Luke, Kol, Wolf and Bantha, Cade would never have been in a fit state to duel Krayt and live, never mind win completely both the fight and the after-fight! He relapses badly and it's only really after Krayt is finally extinguished that he has become the man he wishes to be but who he thought was forever beyond his reach.
     
  19. Foggy's Pal

    Foggy's Pal Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Just read the first few issues; man, I had forgotten how much information Ostrander/Duurseema dumped in there. That certainly is something I love about this series- there are layers and layers of intrigue and players set against each other. One thing that stood out this time was that the Sith certainly don't seem as strong as those of the past. Krayt, as we find out, is being slowly killed from a disease growing within, and Nihl isn't an even match for Jedi; he must resort to tricks and cowardly means to fight. I actually like this. It makes the Sith desperate and possibly more dangerous.
    I also loved how they incorporated the Vong material, with Syn even using Vong weaponry.
    Last thought, I had mixed emotions the first time I read this when Cade actually is turning over the Jedi. But now, I see this as a bold move, really showing how much Cade had fallen, how much he actually toes the line of the Dark side. Really enjoyed these early issues.
     
  20. Shadow Trooper

    Shadow Trooper Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2013
    I thought Wyyrlok was Legacy's best villain and loved having him as the big bad. He was so much more interesting and one of the few disappointing moments in the series was when he was killed in favor of Krayt again.
     
  21. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    One of the standout characters from Legacy #2 and the first main arc is Bothan Jedi Hosk Trey'lis. His interactions with Cade are some of my favorite in the series. Trey'lis had essentially given up on the galaxy, but the very existence of another Jedi, specifically a Skywalker Jedi, was enough to give him hope. Powerful stuff like that really gave the series a sense of gravitas, but also remind me how sad I am that Cade never becomes a member of the Jedi Order.

    Jumping back to issue #1 briefly, Kol Skywalker is one of those characters who achieves epic status despite not having a bunch of appearances. His last stand on Ossus, buying time for his son and a shuttle full of Jedi younglings is one of those EU moments that rates in my top 10. "We take what is given" could be the motto of the Skywalker family. Kol embodies the very best of the Skywalker family and Jedi Order and his death really set the tone for the new series and showed the power of the One Sith.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  22. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Again, I mostly agree but I'm okay with the idea Cade never becomes a Jedi. The title says it all, "Legacy."

    Luke Skywalker's Legacy is reviving the Jedi Order and freeing the galaxy from both the Sith as well as the Yuuzhan Vong. However, that doesn't mean that his legacy has to be his family's for the rest of eternity. It's not the job of the Skywalkers to be the Aes Sedai and spend the rest of their lives defending the galaxy. It's a burden that Cade rose to the task of (kicking and screaming) but he does and deserves to live his life as he wants.

    Cade has accepted the burden of his past and saved the universe but only he can determine if being a Jedi is his life or if he's more like Han Solo--and that he is a hero when the moment called him to action.

    I think part of the reason I feel this way is because of Superman's talk with Jack Knight in "Starman." Superman is the kind of guy you'd expect to talk about the responsibility of being a superhero as he is a "lifer." Instead, Clark Kent talks with Jack Knight and says (more or less) that the life of being a superhero is a burden that can wear down the soul or lift it up but everyone should know just how much they can take. That, like police officers or firemen, it is a calling but one that doesn't demand you fight until your dying breath. Because others will carry the torch and the greatest thing any hero can remember is they're not alone.

    More or less giving Jack "permission" to retire with his son and girlfriend.
     
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  23. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Star Wars: Legacy
    Issue 3#
    Broken

    [​IMG]


    Cover Thoughts: Marasiah is a truly beautiful character. Roan Fel looks quite imposing, albeit a bit girth-y. Lady Vao looks soft and delicate, which is an odd thing given her brother is a Jedi. I wonder why we never saw much of her past this point.

    Synopsis: Cade Skywalker and company thwart an attempt by their Jedi captive to escape. They turn over the Jedi to Rav the Pirate turned Bail Bondsmen. Roan Fel takes over Bastion and proceeds to start making plans to take more Imperial forces to it. Marasiah Fel is abandoned by her father due to the potential for ruining his plans to rebuild his military. Darth Talon follows her, stealthily, hoping to track down Roan Fel. Cade encounters Luke Skywalker's Force Spirit. He and Luke hash it out until Cade threatens suicide. Marasiah Fel and her handmaiden board Cade's vessel and head off into space. Cade decides he's going to take out Roan Fel and turn him over for the bounty.

    Issue Thoughts: Roan Fel is a fabulous monarch and a lousy father. This is a consistent theme in his story and one of the reasons why he remains such a fascinating character. I remember, before he dropped out of the forums, once getting into an argument with Jon Ostrander about him. I was pretty obnoxious back then and I regret it now but, boiled down to me, it was his moral event horizon. I could NEVER imagine a member of the Solo family abandoning their own flesh and blood for political gain. Litlte did we know that he would have a much more damning moment in the future set up.

    I always wondered what caused Sia and Roan's relationship to be so cold. It's not just the fact he won't send a rescue party to get his daughter, irregardless of the fact his daughter is a major security risk if captured alive, but how dismissive he is of her in general.

    Marasiah is not the kind of person he treats as the next heir to the Empire and I wonder if we're in a "Ra's Al Ghul" situation where he has an heir but she has the wrong organs for what he wants from a successor. Other possibilities are that Roan was raised as an Emperor and she as a Princess so warmth as well as affection were never on the table. It's why I was reluctant to have Jaina become Empress because I couldn't imagine her standing on ceremony. It'd seem like it'd be hell for her, unlike her mother.

    Darth Talon's menacing stalking of Marasiah Fel is quite deliberately invoking Darth Maul. I think she's a formidable opponent and always wanted to see her go after Cade. I always wanted to see her character developed a bit more both with her "relationship" with Cade (I imagine she considers him so powerful that he could persuade her from her loyalty to Krayt) and her formidable skill as Emperor's Hand. I would have loved to have seen some more duels involving her and the others.

    The heart of this issue is the chat between Luke Skywalker's Ghost (confirmed by Word of God as the real thing) and Cade Skywalker. This is the issue that permanently soured me against Cade Skywalker's destined role in the storyline because, ironically, Cade is absolutely 100% right here. At least, in my opinion.

    [​IMG]

    Yes, it takes a hero to be willing to fight for people who are going to throw you under the bus at the first sign of trouble but I'm fairly sure you aren't morally OBLIGATED to fight for them. The New Jedi Order had people falling over each other to destroy the Jedi Knights, even when they were the only people opposing the Yuuzhan Vong. Likewise, they embraced Palpatine's New Order and its lies about the Jedi. Oh and now we have Daala being elected Supreme Chancellor despite PERSONALLY launching a massive military assault for the sole purpose of murdering Jedi. Kark the galaxy's plebs, I say that as a die hard member of the Proletariat.

    Cade Skywalker has a moral obligation to rescue the Jedi Master he just turned over to the Sith. Cade Skywalker has a moral obligation to "do no harm." Cade Skywalker doesn't have a moral obligation to go above and beyond the call of duty to save the universe from itself. Cade can tool around the galaxy with his buddies and there is nothing wrong with that. Same for Jedi Master Revan and Bastilla deciding that, after defeating Darth Malak, they want to spend the rest of their lives watching Holoflix. God knows the first time Revan tried to save the galaxy, it turned out SO WELL.

    Conversely, I also get Luke Skywalker's position here. Having decided to avoid becoming "one with the Force" for the benefit of all sentient beings (watching over the galaxy indefinitely as a Star Wars Bodhisattva) or simply so powerful he's more or less a Mortis One--Luke is stuck with a mess of a great-grandson. In normal circumstances, I'm sure Luke would be okay with Cade Skywalker doing his own thing. God knows, Luke isn't seemingly bothering Nat Skywalker or his kids. Cade, however, is on a suicidal path of addiction and thrill-seeking. Deliah and Jariah are the only thing keeping him from ODing. He hates himself for failing to save his father or some other reason (it has to have been recent since Jariah Syn said Cade used to be the best). Cade is also clearly unhappy, protestations to the contrary.

    But, more than concern for Cade's well-being, Luke is also stuck with the fact that his great-grandson is the only[ person in the galaxy who can defeat the Sith. It creates a bit of unintentional symetry with Jaina Solo. She who was the only person who could defeat Jacen.

    Luke is dead, so he can't deal with the problem (unless he possesses someone). Nat Skywalker has let his connection to the Force wither and die like Kyle Katarn did after Mysteries of the Sith even if he's got some of it still. No one else has the magical mojo just like Kyle Katarn, the Jedi Order's greatest warrior and a one-man human wrecking ball, got utterly owned by Caedus. In short, frustrating both parties is the fact that Cade Skywalker's free will is meaningless in all this because there's NOBODY ELSE. Cade thinks Marasiah could pull it off but everyone, including Luke apparently, thinks she's not got the right stuff. In that context, Cade Skywalker and Luke are both stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's an interesting subversion of the typical Heroes' Journey as the rejection of the Call actually seems fairly sensible this time.
     
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  24. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Cade brought up good points in this issue. Just saying.
    Though he will get his butt handed to him a little later on.
     
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  25. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    Cade is one of my least favorite members of the Skywalker-Solo family (though still far better than Jacen), but I liked his position here a lot. Post-NJO, it really doesn't seem like the galaxy is smart enough to defend itself. The Jedi and friends basically had to drag everyone kicking and screaming to defend themselves, with most people either blaming the Jedi for the invasion (rather than, you know, the Vong's fanatical drive to convert or wipe out all non-Vong life) or blaming the Jedi for not doing enough. I think at this point we already knew the general history, that the Jedi tried to rehabilitate the Vong's reputation with the Ossus Project, that it was working until the Sith secretly sabotaged it, and when the galaxy called for the Vong's head, the Jedi still defended them and the GA followed that lead... but instead apparently a majority went neutral or sided with the Empire.

    Yet it also progresses logically from how the Vong War went- the New Republic did so badly they had to rename themselves, while the Empire mostly kept to itself until it came under attack (that joint task force at Ithor aside, and the blame for that defeat all went to a Jedi of course rather than the Vong), and then the Empire got to join in on the victory celebration.

    Sadly, while a heroic Jedi is supposed to defend the galaxy, letting the galaxy burn for its own stupidity has become a much more appealing idea after all the post-NJO novels. The one thing that never changes is the "blame the Jedi" game. Funny enough, I think this also shows that Cade did study family history and knows that being a hero means having a bad life. That's part of being a hero, sacrificing for others, but as long as Cade wasn't on the road to becoming a Darth, he wasn't that bad.

    I did like Luke's reprimand though- every decade there's always problems, so people just have to deal with it. If I remember right, Luke's last line is almost kind of ominous in hindsight- destiny will find Cade, even if he deadens his connection with the Force through deathsticks and no matter how far he runs. Literally in this case when Marasiah shows up on his doorstep. Officially he wants to turn her in for the bounty, but its obvious Ossus still haunts him.

    Hard to tell what specifically has "broken" Cade. Ossus obviously broke him, but he seemed ok as a pirate, enough so that most people didn't notice anything odd about him. Turning in a Jedi probably really hurt though, but I just chalk it up as its been years and he basically has no future left. Permanently in debt to Rav (I think that was the name?) death sticks his only reprieve, etc. Hm, come to think of it, too bad we never saw Rav get his comeuppance (Cade beat him up a little, but after he sold out Cade again, from that point on Cade was a bit too busy to deal with him.

    Kind of sad Luke is dead by now, but if he were normal earth human, it would be expected he would have died of old age, but he's not. He's Force sensitive too, and I think this was around when that silly "60 is the new 40" line came about, to justify non-"special" people like Han and Boba Fett still being able to run around in a blaster fight. With that, Luke should easily have been able to go up to 200 or later, based on his power, but I prefer to think Luke wouldn't push things too much with the Force. Especially with his wife dead probably decades before his natural death. I remember back in 2006, after the end of the Vong War, it sounded like the galaxy was peaceful until the Sith-Imperial War broke out, so I had hoped Luke could have passed away peacefully. Huh, so naive and innocent back then. Now if the novels don't have him go out fighting some Force god, I'll be really surprised. Mara was still alive back then too.

    The cover was cool, and nice to not have lightsabers on there, but pretty quickly Roan and Marasiah were just mostly depicted as Imperial Knights- they're the ones in charge, but still, quite often they're in armor and with lightsabers, rather than being the actual rulers. I don't mind active leaders, its just compared to their introduction picture on this issue, its less interesting such as seeing Marasiah with blasters, whereas after that its mostly just lightsabers for everyone. Heck, Cade's continuing use of both his lightsaber and blaster later on was good at least. Not to mention both Fels are basically just cold aristocrats for most of Legacy, so not exactly the most sympathetic characters.

    I do wish we had seen Astraal more- Shado's sister and a Force sensitive and an Imperial Missionary too could have led to at least several story possibilities. But then the Imperial Mission was mostly a dropped plot line by the end anyway. There were signs that it could have been more, but not enough time again.
     
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