Saga In your opinion, which Star Wars movie is the most underrated or most overrated movie? And why?

Yes. Fair enough.

It's still a bit harsh for another fan to proclaim they can't understand one of the Star Wars movies being proclaimed "best anything".

That's my opinion, anyway.

There actually is a subtext. And it's that these characters have grown a little too comfortable with their world and its values. The little bevy of "couch" scenes is appropriate to the setting, themes, and style of the story being told. In my view, anyway.

Nice thoughts that you have reiterated on TPM here. I very much appreciate the bolded bit. There's a lot that TPM seeds. One thing that appeals is its relative remove to the other SW installments. It has a superficial sense of isolation and naivete to it, which I find remarkably clever.

I'm dismayed, at times, that people don't also notice some of the motifs implanted in TPM, like the intensity of nature, "red in tooth and claw", sublimated into venerable power structures. Amidala appearing on a viewscreen at the start, in a red dress, warning Nute to "beware", is an illustration of this.

It's rather a lot visually bolder than the OT in a lot of ways. Much of the excitement of Star Wars comes from noticing -- and feeling -- particular contrasts and opposing rhythms; which actually constitute a broader whole.

You have some decently articulated thoughts here. The medal ceremony also strikes me as particularly corny -- compare it to the operatic way that AOTC ends and I think they could scarcely be more different. It's all the stranger when you see Luke emerge from his X-Wing in a state of euphoria, having just lost his best friend of many years. Everyone else is similarly ecstatic. Not a single frame is given over to lamenting all the dead pilots. It's oddly callous. You're right that the unadulterated cheese of the ceremony is part of the general charm of the series, however.

I also agree with you about the ineffectiveness of the Death Star sequence. I mean, sure, it works, and works well. But if you cast a critical eye over it, the characters have a pretty easy time of it. It's amazing, for instance, how Artoo can just "plug in" to the Imperial network, with no access codes required or anything of the sort. Of course, there is something of a running joke concerning the laughable ineptitude of a sprawling bureaucracy (while a mythological space saga, Star Wars is also a bit of an office comedy), but this is stretched to allow for a lot of convenient breaks for the heroes, too.

And the trash compactor part -- depending on my mood -- strains my patience. Ever since I first saw it around early adolescence, it's always struck me as a bit of a chore. I mean, I can get through it just fine; but I'd venture to say it's the weakest and most redundant part of the film. It really doesn't help none, in my opinion, that when they're trying to "brace" the closing-in walls, they grab at stuff that looks like cheap plastic. That pole thing that Han uses? It's always looked fake as hell to me. There's a part of me that doesn't fully buy that sequence. On the other hand, what I also like about it is its inherent incongruity: a smelly trash compactor on a massive space station (and inhabited by a weird monster) that could just incinerate its rubbish with laser beams or blast it into space? I'm being a bit facetious: maybe those things are done after compacting it. Still, it seems a bit low-tech, and somewhat "out of place". This is the sequence I sometimes feel like pointing to to justify Jar Jar and all the other assorted weirdness and oddities of Star Wars. There is something of a subtext here, too, with it being a trash compactor (is that not the series in microcosm?).

So, if being a bit critical about it, ANH can emerge as a bit of a mixed bag. It hardly matters, though. I still find the space battle very suspenseful. And that battle, along with the other set-pieces in the film (not the trash compactor so much ) -- especially the preceding turrent sequence and the remarkable cantina sequence -- still distinguish ANH as a fine piece of documentary-fantasy cinema. The editing and cinematography still seem, to me, very clean, taut, and assured. It is still a film with many jazz-like eccentricities and treasures that keep tweaking your consciousness every time you watch it. And its flaws and quirks seem to add to it. A bravissimo piece of film-making. And honestly, is there a more fun film to watch in the whole history of cinema than SW/ANH?

Most assuredly!!!

 

Underrated - The Phantom Menace
Overrated - The Empire Strikes Back

 

Very interesting post. Love reading new takes on the films. In fact I disagree with you on almost every count regarding ANH, but that's part of what makes the JC so engaging

 

Underrated is AOTC. I could dig it just based on the action. Throw in the fact that I consider it the thematic core of the series, as well its multiple stretches of subtle and sweeping emotion, and I see something not just underrated, but pretty great.

Overrated is ESB of course. It's a fine episode that I love to revisit, but I wouldn't even call it the best Star Wars film, let alone one of the all time greats regardless of genre.

 

Yep!!!

 

Underrated: ROTJ. I think it is just about as good as the rest of the OT despite some problems (Ewoks, a second Death Star).
Overrated: ROTS. A ton of people think this is one of the top 3 Star Wars films. It has a lot of strong moments, but is held back by filler (Utapau), overuse of CGI, and failed characterzations of Anakin/Vader and Padme.

 

Filler?!

How?

 

Yeah, I'm a bit confused as to what you're talking about. Utapau was essential for Obi-Wan to leave Anakin alone and stoke envy and a sense of unfairness that the latter Jedi felt. And how did Anakin's characterization fail? I don't like how Padme was treated in RotS, but I wouldn't call it a failure, persay.

Underrated: Tie between TPM and AotC. Love both of these films.

Overrated: TESB. Didn't really enjoy the latter half (loved Yoda and Luke scenes), Cloud City felt slow and boring.

 

Well to me, needing Obi-Wan to be off the planet for Anakin's fall to the dark side to even somewhat work is a sign of weak writing. Anakin should have been seduced, not tricked into the dark side. The way Anakin is written in Episode III suggests he was tricked into joining the dark side. Had Obi-Wan been there, he would not have turned. My bottom line is that Obi-Wan should not have been able to pull Anakin from the dark side and the need for him to go to Utapau to fight a ridiculous villain screams filler to me.

As for Padme, I think she was handled poorly in ROTS because of the whole "lost the will to live" thing (which in defense of the film, has been used in other media). In addition, she seemed to be horrified at Anakin for supporting a dictatorship, killing children, and acting angry and creepy. Need I remind everyone that he did all those things in AOTC?

I do not want to start a huge debate. I still enjoy the prequels, but I just think they have more major problems than the OT. I think there were a lot of problems overlooked in ROTS because of its spectacle. That's why it's overrated to me.

ROTJ is underrated because even though it had some problems, I still really rooted for the characters and felt a huge connection to them. Luke was so well done in ROTJ and saves just about most problems of the movie to me.

 

I've also struggled with Anakins descent to the dark side. As you say, movies aren't really the optimal medium in which to depict such a complex process. The novel did help me with this, but I'm still struggling when I watch ROTS. I've also made efforts to rationalize the fall by claiming that he experienced something akin to psychosis, which isn't unlikely considering all the things he'd gone through. The dark side is like a powerful drug and he obviously overdozed.

I do think that ROTS is the most overrated movie. I've said before that AOTC is one of my favorites in the trilogy - and that I like it better than ROTS. I think it has a lot to do with my level of expectation. ROTS was probably the most anticipated movie of my life, and disappointment was probably inevitable.

 

Underrated:jedi. Mark Hamills strongest performance, the death of yoda, the best spacebattle of the series,everything set in the throne room, admiral ackbar, landos redemption.

Overated: a new hope. very slow first half hour. Some very cringeworthy acting(mark hamill was used to tv,carrie fisher had done only one movie before this and it showed) great movie and it changed film history buy its sequels improved on it. The death star assault is great though.

 

I think the only two underated are Tpm and Aotc. People who didnt like it the first time and stopped watching them should go back because maybe youll like this time around. Anh,Esb and Rots deserve the praise they get and arent overated.

 

Overrated: ROTS. Whilst a great movie, I think it often gets extra points for simply being lumped in the prequel category. At times feels overwhelming with CGI and a few plot points were rushed to get to the end point.

Underrated: RoTJ. Most people can't give an answer of why they don't like it other than "ewoks". So many great moments; Jabba's Palace, Sail barge, speeder chase, battle on/above Endor and of course - the throne room.

 

I think AOTC is the most underrated. ROTJ close second. Everyone's main gripe with the film is the romance, which I don't particularly like either. BUT they aren't focusing on what makes the movie so great: everything but the romance. The love story actually does not take up as much of the film as you think.

Overrated? Hard to say.

 

The Phantom Menace. The structure of the movie may be a little "weird", with no obvious protagonist to follow, but the setup and the insight into the galaxy at large is amazing. I've always thought it would work better as a "Star Wars: Prologue" than "Star Wars: Episode I" because of this non-conform structure. In many ways, it's the Silmarillion of the SW movies.

 

Most overrated: TESB. Sure, it is my second favorite film, but people praise this one so much more than the other five films.

Most underrated: ROTJ. A lot of people consider this film the "weakest" and I just don't see it. It's my personal favorite, and it doesn't seem to get the credit it deserves. I could also say any of the Prequels, though.

 

ROTJ is the most underrated. It gets crap because of the Ewoks, but I think if you can tolerate them then the movie is as strong as New Hope in my opinion.

I'd say that overrated is ANH. It was an iconic game changer to be sure, but when viewed in the context of the OT I don't think it's the most entertaining. The Yavin battle always kinda bored me.

 

I like seeing the love here for Jedi and for the prequels. Very nice.

And some people have taken to slaying sacred cows. Watch out, guys!

Anyway, I really resonate to this:

You've kinda nailed it here; as far as I'm concerned.

Weird, different, uncompromising -- and yes to everything you said.

What I've noticed I really like about TPM (there are many things) is the basic idea of this compassionate Jedi mystic, with his strange love of the "living" Force -- an esoteric idea if ever there was one (though also completely in-line with many belief systems) -- taking pity on so-called "pathetic" lifeforms and sweeping them into his circle. The saga is seeded from this. I think it's just as lovely and powerful a device as having Artoo and Threepio bring the viewer into the movie (more "pathetic" lifeforms from a certain point of view) in the original movie.

I might have let my love of TPM slip since getting more into AOTC recently, but I want it to be clear that I have tremendous, returning affection for it, and it isn't going anywhere in *my* conception of Star Wars.

This, too:

You got it, Torz. I don't agree with you on ROTS, but let's drop that because that is a nice answer.

Same kind of answer, but must also acknowledge:

I agree that it is Mark Hamill's best performance (though he's also very good in the former films). Quite a contrast with the "wet" quality he has in ANH.

What helps, as well, is how serious and controlled the direction is in the dramatic scenes in ROTJ. As in ROTS, it allows the leads, or the lead-lead, to really act, and there is a heightened intensity to the film as a result. And after the prequels, Jedi has gotten especially stronger.

That's my view of things, anyway.

 

RotJ is a pretty interesting scenario. While it is not my favorite outing in the Saga, it has perhaps my favorite moments out of all of the films. Pretty much everything with Darth Vader and Luke on screen, either individually or, even more so, when they're on screen together, is about as close to perfect as you can get. Not that he wasn't good before, but every time I watch Jedi Hamill's performance of Luke at this stage blows me away. He has an almost Qui-Gon-like sage feeling to him, which I'll bet was Lucas' intention when making TPM. Qui-Gon is presented there as a sort of idealized Jedi, beholden to what the Jedi Order does right and ultimately a very good man but also not blind to their flaws and willing to do things on his own if he thinks he has a better method. That's what Anakin thought he was, but obviously wound up taking a different path, and what Obi-Wan and Yoda are on the path to becoming in the PT, but it is through Luke's RotJ incarnation that we really get to see that "truest," if you will, form of Jedi rematerialize once again.

I think that Vader realizing that Leia is his daughter and using that bit of information to lure Luke out of hiding, followed by Luke unleashing hell on Vader and then, doing the stronger thing, stopping himself, throwing his saber aside, and committing fully to the light side, might just be my absolute favorite Star Wars moment. Such a great contrast against Anakin's very similar turning point when he cuts off Windu's hand and allows Palpatine to destroy him in RotS.

Funny, how I set out to talk about what I like about RotJ but, in order to do so, felt like I had to weave its context through incidents that span the entire Saga. I feel like that's always the case with these films. It's like a puzzle, constantly shifting, allowing for new perspectives when you analyze different parts together in different ways. When you look at it like that it's really hard to think about any of the individual installments as over or underrated. They all just seem to kind of exist in tandem with one another, operating on their own but also directly informing and shaping one another in unique and interesting ways that always reveal themselves upon closer analysis.

 

Exactly! And wonderfully-observed. Lucas loves his parallels. I feel it can't be any coincidence that TPM and ROTJ are situated on the "outer ring" of the saga, feature Qui-Gon and Luke who i) brandish green lightsabers, ii) set people free on Tatooine, and iii) have deep, unbending faith in the fundamental goodness of Anakin Skywalker. Qui-Gon's "your focus determines your reality" is also echoed by Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" dialogue to Luke (which is itself a repeat of Qui-Gon's former rebuke of Obi-Wan after he protests that Anakin is dangerous: "from your point of view"), and Luke has clearly developed a strong commitment to saving Anakin and setting him free. Then there's the whole sub-plot with enlisted "primitives" to beat back a technologically-superior force and all other kinds of linkages between the two installments.

It definitely echoes that fateful moment in ROTS. And I agree. Not only a wonderful moment in Star Wars, but a wonderful moment in any film, period. The spiritual value of ROTJ is immense. The message that it is never too late to change course has to be one of the most awesome and hopeful things ever put into a movie for a mass audience.

Indeed. Another exquisite observation. Let me just add to that the following:

In a way, the appeal of these films, and their return value, lies in the fact that each reveals a new facet of the "tragedy" of Anakin. In ANH, we are made to believe he is a murdered father that Luke will never get a chance to share the same air with. In TESB, tada! All is different. Not only are the hero and villain related, they are also -- in effect -- one. ROTJ brings in the redemptive angle and makes us ponder what the pre-Vader Anakin was like. TPM reveals that he began his association with the Jedi as a virtuous, self-sacrificing child. But one raised as a slave with certain darker wants and desires, including a dangerous attachment issue. In AOTC, he's a brash, yet furtive Jedi learner, reacts murderously to a tragic loss, and begins a secret relationship with a respected senator and former, much-loved queen. In ROTS, he makes a Faustian pact after war has shattered his world and convinced him his wife will die, murders children and heads of state, chokes his pregnant wife whom he set out to save, and burns with vengeance for his former master, who abandons him to torment and death. All surprising additions to a character that began as a serial distraction: a narcissistic boogeyman who we otherwise knew very little about by the end of the first movie. The fate of Anakin, and his whole life-story, was a great excuse to build a saga around.

I do wonder what's coming next and if it'll be half as good. There is wonderful thematic, and yes, psychological depth -- never mind pictorial density -- to the existing films. They tell a story that has a clearly-delineated beginning, middle, and end, and is also continually quoting and folding in on itself, with the constant loss and gaining of equilibrium in each film and in the story's central character. It's an oscillating masterpiece. It is a little hard for me to imagine what could possibly anchor follow-on movies so that they are anything more than that: follow-ons. In a way, this story feels like the only one that matters, and all that there should really be. I'm open to further adventures, but the Star Wars saga might end up feeling like a cake drowning in icing. Too much genius in the existing films, I fear. But never mind. This is the way it was told; and it was told this way for a reason. The existing films will always speak for themselves, ultimately. This brand of genius is too luminous to not be seen and heard.

 

Underrated: Revenge of the Sith

At the time of its release, ROTS was hailed by many critics and fans as the finest SW film since Empire. In subsequent years, the good will has largely evaporated. This astounds me, as my appraisal hasn't drifted an inch since 2005. Setting aside a few minor niggling elements, I truly believe that this is Lucas's finest hour (or two, as it were) in the Star Wars universe, and second only to his masterpiece THX-1138 in his overall oeuvre. In addition to his breathtaking command of efficient storytelling, Lucas managed to successfully tether the Flash Gordon razzle dazzle of the original film with the meditative qualities of TESB, and the result is a genre classic.

I'm saddened to see ROTS designated a "too little, too late" failure, but then, I've seen worse charges leveled against my beloved Tim Burton Batman films (another director, who understood how to craft soaring operas out of pure nonsense) for much of my life, so I can bear it.


On edit: I would like to add that the recent disparaging of ROTS has admittedly soured me to Episode VII. There's a part of me that bristles, hearing an omnipresent call for Abrams and co. to redeem a purportedly fallen franchise when, in my opinion, Lucas left the series on a note higher than any 5+ film franchise in memory (although Nicholas Meyer certainly did a sterling job with Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country).

 

Lovely to read. Your passion remains high.

Almost goes without saying, but I echo your thoughts. I think it's a tremendously well-crafted, beautifully-focused, wholly-enveloping, operatic masterpiece.

And on that note, here are two reviews, of a fashion, celebrating the pop majesty of Sith:

http://worldfilm.about.com/od/r/a/starwars.htm

http://checkingonmysausages.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/examining-star-wars-saga-via-revenge-of.html

 

Underrated certainly has to be TPM no question about it the film is nowhere near as bad as the criticism would have you believe imo. As far as overrated it's no competition to me it's clearly ESB.

 

Any episode that's rated as better than the others is overrated and any episode that's rated as worse than the others is underrated

 

Underrated: ANH
Overrated: TESB