Amph INCEPTION- Christopher Nolan's new film (SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Community' started by Coruscant, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

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    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Yeah I am perplexed by some of the shots in the hallway and hotel room stuff. My guess would be that the Zero-G stuff was done the same way they did it in Apollo 13 (shooting in a large plane as it makes arcs high in the atmosphere, creating a small window of zero-g). The rotating hallway is an old trick of litterally just rotating the hallway and letting gravity do its work, but the camera movement is new to me. I don't know if they painted out the tracks or how they did it, but it certainly caught my attention.
  2. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

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    May 19, 2005
    star 6
    I have been spending too much time with my feminist critical theory friends lately, but this movie lacks a really strong female hero character like Trinity. Mal is - for all intents and purposes - a villain, and Ariadne, while she has good moments trying to reign in Cobb and is obviously smart and capable doesn't even come NEAR being as powerful or important to the plot as Trinity was.
  3. YodaKenobi VIP

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    If you're the girlfriend or wife of the main character in a Christopher Nolan movie, you're probably going to get killed.
  4. Jobo Force Ghost

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    Weirdly enough, Dani, that's actually something I was thinking as I came out of the theater too. Weird because I pretty much never think in terms of, "The women in this movie weren't strong enough!" (hmmm, maybe that says something bad about me) But yeah, I'd agree that the movie doesn't have a lot in the way of strong female characters... do Nolan films really ever, though? I don't recall any from the Prestige, TDK kinda had Rachel... I guess in Begins Rachel was a stronger character, right? I can't speak for any of his other films--again, a long time since I saw Memento--but it seems like it's not something he's hugely concerned with as a director. Which isn't a justification, just an observation.
    _jOBO
  5. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
    star 10
    Yeah Mal is mostly only seen as Cobb remembers her. Not perhaps, as she really was. So although she seems a big problem for Cobb, really it's only him that's the problem. Adrian is almost constantly acting as the audience's way in to whatever is going on, and was still being told stuff for us to know almost to the end.
  6. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Yeah, Ariadne's both a stand-in for the audience as well as a sort of helper for Cobb. Given her name, it makes sense that she helps him navigate his own emotional labyrinth and all that--I would think she could have used a little more agency but then so could the other characters, right? I mean, what were their roles beyond just "this is your function on Cobb's team" ?
  7. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    I'd say she's an utterly vital role as she represents the necessary proxy to whom all the copious exposition can be credibly dictated and we don't end up with painful "as you know" scenes. :p That and I adore Ellen Page. [face_love]
  8. Everton Chosen One

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    Jul 18, 2003
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    Good point. Saito's vested interest aside, they're all in it for the money. She's perhaps in it for a little more than that, as it's all new to her and she wants to broaden her horizons - better herself. She's captivated, as most newcomers who find they can grasp something cool tend to be. She wants to learn, which is good and laudable.


    EDIT: Yes! I knew the film was missing something... "As you know," scenes!
  9. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

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    May 19, 2005
    star 6
    The role is necessary, but it being a woman wasn't necessary. Couldn't the young, new architect have been a male student and, say, the experienced chemist or forger have been a woman?

    To be fair, Jobo, I didn't go into movies or shows specifically looking for this stuff either until I made some friends who analyze the gender dynamics in everything. So I don't think it says anything particularly bad about you :p
  10. Everton Chosen One

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    Jul 18, 2003
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    Would, perhaps, Cobb have been as open to her questioning him and his motivations - and then offering help and advice - had she been a man? Might Cobb have rebuffed such an outreach as males are inclined to do?
  11. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

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    Sure, I don't think it would have been impossible to write that way. I'm not sure if Christopher Nolan is capable of it, though.

    EDIT: I just mean to say I don't think Ariadne being a woman was that integral to Cobb being 'receptive' to her, particularly since she barged her way into his dream in the first place and her admonitions of him were of her own volition and not because he was particularly into being told how to handle his Mal problems.
  12. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Also, like I keep saying, there's the Ariadne/labyrinth thing that they keep going for (remember how she wears a red jacket in their first scene?). They couldn't really have a man in that role. I mean, sure, the forger could have been a woman too, but that's a different thing entirely imo.
  13. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

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    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    They all could have been women really, I don't think that would have changed anything. Why couldn't Mal and Cobb's characters have been reversed instead?? I was just saying, while on the topic of the character, I am grateful for her involvement in smoothly executing what would always be a heavily expository story.
  14. Everton Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 18, 2003
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    So Ariadne becomes 'Adrian', and Adrian barges his way into Cobb's dreams. Cobb - a man - could easily see that as confrontational and let the relationship fracture. Bloke versus bloke. I'm still inclined to think that Ariadne's intrusion is tolerated moreso than Adrian's would be. I see that it's not an insurmountable problem and a gender reversal isn't out of the question... but do think that a woman playing that role is a smoother way through to the film's present objective... Ariadne's relationship with Cobb and her understanding of his problems is the only way she gets her ticket and the audience get their eyes and ears - and explanations of concepts where necessary - on the mission.

    Plus, I felt that the blokes were particularly blokey when they had scenes together as a group. Cobb, Arthur, Eames and Yusuf have an 'Ocean's 11' gang of guys vibe going on, which was IMO very entertaining and would've been de-stabalised (not critically, perhaps, as it's not key to the story) had a woman been one of the main players.
  15. Jobo Force Ghost

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    This is, I think, where most people find themselves when confronted with feminist theory with regard to film. One response being, of course, if it wouldn't have changed anything about the movie then why not just do it? Since there certainly aren't many strong female roles, especially in blockbuster action movies like this one.

    I would be less inclined to say you could switch Cobb and Mal easily, only because Cobb is likely a large part of why this story was envisioned in the first place, and I can understand from a writing perspective why you would keep a character the sex you originally envisioned him/her as, since that likely informs a large part of your understanding of that character. But none of the other roles, I'd argue, are fleshed-out enough for it to make much of a difference if they're men or women. The forger, as mentioned, is a good example of a character who could've been female without changing much of the story.

    I dunno if any of that made sense, by the way. Good luck reading it!
    _jOBO
  16. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

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    Well I wasn't trying to make a statement on gender...whatsoever. Perhaps its sexist of me but I don't really have much of an issue with the gender roles of the film. I don't think every film necesarily needs a strong female character, just like I don't feel like every film needs a strong male character, just so long as there is a strong character (regardless of gender). I agree there is a disproportionate lean towards strong male leads but frankly unless the gender plays a specific role in who they are and their involvement with the story, I don't have an issue with most characters being either male of female.
  17. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

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    May 19, 2005
    star 6
    I do agree with the Ocean's 11 comment, I definitely got that vibe too. I think the dynamic between Eames and Arthur in particular was really fun.

    I just don't think Ariadne being a woman was that critical to her function, like I said. I don't think if she had been a man that the interests of a believable and consistent character would have required Cobb to shut down and get pissy with him. But, what do I know. And now I think I'm arguing that there should have been fewer women in the film, so I'll just stop.
  18. Jobo Force Ghost

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    Aug 14, 2000
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    And I would completely agree with this statement, certainly. I think the problem through the feminist lens, though, is that this works great when we're living in a world where gender inequity has been solved; it's less ideal, however, when women are still fighting for respectable representations in media. Y'know?

    This, by the way, is all just my understanding of it. I have nowhere near an in-depth knowledge of feminist theory, women, people, or really anything at all for that matter.
    _jOBO
  19. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 6
    Jobo, I love you more than ever.

    James, what Jobo said. If you've never heard of the Bechdel test, look it up. Once you start applying it to everything you watch, you'll realize how few things even past the first step of the test, much less the whole thing. If we put aside for a moment that Mal isn't "real," and assume she counts as a character (which I would accept, but some feminists might not), then Inception only passes the first two steps by the saving grace of about 15 seconds of dialogue. It still doesn't pass the whole thing considering that their whole conversation is about Cobb.
  20. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Well I guess a feminist perspective isn't my prerogative when rating a good movie I suppose (or discussing the finer points of its successes and failures). Again maybe that makes me naive, even sexist, but I prefer to rate the film based on the merits of film-making. Unless gender plays a specific role in the character its something I don't usually take issue with.
  21. AaylaSecurOWNED Force Ghost

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    May 19, 2005
    star 6
    No, I'm not saying it makes you naive or sexist, just that that kind of attitude - which is valid on a case-by-case basis - ignores the larger problem that women are often not represented in media at all, much less realistically. I agree that not holding up on a feminist critical basis doesn't make a particular movie bad. Inception is one of the best movies I've seen this year despite its failures on that front. Just, if you carry that attitude over to filmmaking-at-large you're feeding into the massive inequity.
  22. Jobo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2000
    star 5
    Indeed. In fact, most of the great filmmakers--Hitchcock, Kurosawa, others I'm too lazy to remember--have major gender issues in their films. It doesn't keep their films from being fantastic. But it's something to think about when watching them.
    _jOBO
  23. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    I will try to be more aware of it in the future. However, the art will always supersede the politics for me I suppose.
  24. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Yes, but it's the notion that Things Have To Be A Certain Way that causes the problems with the art to begin with.
  25. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

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    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Didn't say they did have to be a certain way, or any which way at all. I went out of my way to say that unless it's integral to the story, gender roles could go either way and I wouldn't have an issue.