1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by Doom Trooper, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. ATMachine

    ATMachine Jedi Master star 4

    Feb 27, 2007
    Speaking of Last Crusade and James Bond, Julian Glover as Donovan is essentially playing the same character as he did in 1981's For Your Eyes Only. In that film, Glover's Aristotle Kristatos is a smuggler secretly working with the Soviets, who initially presents himself to Bond as an ally, but in fact turns out to be the main villain.
    themoth likes this.
  2. Kenneth Morgan

    Kenneth Morgan Chosen One star 5

    May 27, 1999
    Yeah, but we'd keep expecting him to take down the Nazis with a sonic screwdriver.

    I like all four of them, though I have some problems with "Temple of Doom" being too dark and violent, especially against kids. I'm glad they went for a lighter tone for "Last Crusade".
  3. Doom Trooper

    Doom Trooper Jedi Knight star 2

    Jan 1, 2014
    I never got the criticism for TOD being too dark. Raiders was a pretty dark movie too and arguably even more violent and gruesome with the headshots and face-melting.
  4. Darth_Nub

    Darth_Nub Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Apr 26, 2009
    Looking back from today's standards, yeah, the difference is minimal, but I think at the time, TOD seemed darker than Raiders due to the child slavery, black magic and human sacrifice - elements which audiences at the time may have found a bit more confronting in a mainstream film than they would now.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  5. ObiAlKenobi

    ObiAlKenobi Jedi Knight star 3

    Mar 10, 2012
    I absolutely, utterly disagree with every point you made lol. I love the Last Crusade.
    CaptainHamYoyo and Sarge like this.
  6. Blur

    Blur Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Aug 11, 1999
    Fair enough. I know I'm in the minority here re: LC. Most everyone thinks the film is great, but that doesn't change my view.

    On a similar note, I find TPM superior to the other two prequels (AOTC & ROTS), which I know is another unpopular opinion....
    Sarge likes this.
  7. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Aug 31, 2000
    I like The Last Crusade, but it isn't my favorite of the series.
  8. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    May 1, 2014
    At the time it was definitely a more darker turn in tone in TOD from what we saw in Raiders. I can remember the reviews from the time reflecting that. Also remember that back then film certification boards were much more strict than they are now.

    Here is the original BBFC (British Board of Film Classification) report on TOD (its in PDF format). I like the opening paragraph on page 5 where the censor discusses Raiders and how much they were looking forward to seeing TOD, and overall it makes for very interesting reading and shows how times have changed in what we find acceptable to us now.

    All in all I think this is why TLC went back to a more lighter tone.
  9. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Aug 9, 2002
    Last Crusade is Indy's epic, and it's my second favorite, trailing only the pulp perfection that is Temple of Doom.

    Raiders is my least favorite. A bit flat and subdued for me. Crystal Skull is fun, and might've been excellent had Indy been the focus rather than bringing back Marion and introducing Mutt and the double agent guy.
  10. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod star 9 Staff Member Administrator

    May 25, 2002
    Thread title updated at user request..

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 25, 2003
    Great. Well I guess I won't bother watching that one!!!!!

  12. Doom Trooper

    Doom Trooper Jedi Knight star 2

    Jan 1, 2014
    Huh, I remember the original thread title of this asked if TLC was anyone else's least favorite Indiana Jones film. Thought it was a new thread at first until I saw my name and avatar on it.

    I still like TLC but it's my least favorite, unpopular and controversial as that is. While still entertaining, it's the only one of the series with a "been there, done that" feel with how much alike Raiders it is. Nazis again, a Christian relic again, the desert setting, etc. it's the only Indy with a deja vu feeling to it which in hindsight is a bit of a letdown after how well TOD showed Indy doesn't necessarily always need Nazis or Christian relics to work. Plus the amped up comedy and slapstick aren't to my liking and what it did with Brody and Sallah was just criminal to me. I found the villains the dullest of the series and the movie while entertaining for some reason don't have the same enjoyment as the rest.

    Not to say it doesn't have high points for sure, though. Ford is in top form as usual, the interplay between him and Connery is for the record books, the music as usual is excellent (especially the grail theme, simply great) and the tank and grail trials are outstanding sequences in particular. It's a fine movie for sure, but forced to pick a least favorite Indy movie, it'd be at the bottom for me. It's uncommon but I do wonder if there's other who feel similarly.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  13. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    May 1, 2014
    I watched this over the weekend, I still think it was a conscious effort (after TOD) to return to a style more like Raiders.In the main this film achieves that and I think thats one factor why this is so popular. The relationship between Indy and his dad is a strong point in addition to a better MacGuffin in the Holy Grail. Throw in Salah and Marcus too and its a winner.

    Despite there being 4 heroes on the quest at the end (Indy, Henry, Sallah & Marcus) this film gives the characters space, which ensures it doesn't become a jumbled mess. It doesn't throw them all together at the same time for big scenes like KOTCS did, and that for me is one of the reasons why KOTCS failed and got the Indy formula badly wrong.

    This film is second to Raiders in my list of Indy films, if I'm being critical I'm not a fan of the opening scene with a young Indy and I wasn't a fan of the humour at the expense of Marcus too.
    Sarge likes this.
  14. Dagobahsystem

    Dagobahsystem Force Ghost star 6

    Sep 25, 2015
    After marathoning all 4 Indy films yesterday, my rankings remain unchanged.
    1. Raiders (this will always be #1 for me, seen it over 20 times)
    2. Crusade (solidified its spot at #2 after my fourth viewing now)
    3. Doom (this continues to drop, used to be #2, seen it over 10 times)
    4. Kingdom (this one is rising, I liked it even more on my second viewing yesterday)

    I like the story in TLC. Loved the opening with young Indy and all the circus animals. The scenes in Petra at the end are incredible. The banter between father and son is perfect. I love Elsa Schneider.
    Although the creative darkness of ToD is a neat change of pace, the humor is forced in that one, imo, and I find Willie Scott annoying.

    TLC has a much more enjoyable tone and atmosphere that rekindles the spirit of Raiders more so than Doom, although the final bridge sequence in Doom is amazing.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  15. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 6, 2016
    I think that TOD is a reflection of Lucas and Spielberg not realising what they had. It's just an action movie with a new girl, a new ally and a new setting but with the same hero. It just proved that if those respective elements in common were the prerequisite for a good action movie then they could go on with that formula.

    It doesn't try to improve on Raiders except in spectacle. The Last Crusade is a conscious effort to improve in all areas. The familiar characters and new ones in last crusade are better. It has more locations than the previous two. So I can cope with the reuse of the Nazis (who else is going to be the bad guy in the 30s?) and the Christian relic. It just so happens that the relic is a well known synonym for the ultimate goal. So it has far more resonance in terms of the main characters than either of the two maguffins in the previous films.
    Sarge likes this.
  16. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Knight star 3

    Dec 20, 2015
    There are some great set-pieces in TLC but it isn't my favourite either. I think that the Nazis are too comic-book and the whole tone is a bit too silly. That said, Connery is fantastic and has some great moments such as setting his watch in the motorcycle sidecar, "I think they're trying to kill us!" etc

    Indy not wearing the iconic costume until halfway in (and with a tie!!) I think hurt the movie as well.