main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Indiana Jones makes Russian communists see red

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by Thena, May 23, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    Couldn't help but find this story rather amusing....

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080523/en_nm/russia_indianajones_dc
    Indiana Jones makes Russian communists see red

    By Denis Pinchuk Fri May 23, 7:06 AM ET

    ST PETERSBURG, Russia (Reuters) - Russian Communist party members condemned the new Indiana Jones' film on Friday as crude anti-Soviet propaganda that distorted history and called for it to be banned from Russian screens.

    "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" stars Harrison Ford as an archeologist in 1957 competing with an evil KGB agent, played by Cate Blanchett, to find a skull endowed with mystic powers.

    "What galls is how together with America we defeated Hitler, and how we sympathized when Bin Laden hit them. But they go ahead and scare kids with Communists. These people have no shame," said Viktor Perov, a Communist Party member in Russia's second city of St Petersburg.

    The comments were made at a local Communist party meeting and posted on its Internet site www.kplo.ru.

    The film, the fourth in the hugely successful Indiana Jones series, went on release in Russian cinemas on Thursday. Russian media said it was being shown on 808 screens, the widest ever release for a Hollywood movie.

    In past episodes Indiana Jones has escaped from Nazi soldiers, an Egyptian snake pit, a Bedouin swordsman and a child-enslaving Indian demigod.

    RUNNING DOGS

    "Harrison Ford and Cate Blanchett (are) second-rate actors, serving as the running dogs of the CIA. We need to deprive these people of the right of entering the country," said another party member, Andrei Gindos.

    Though the ranks of the once all-powerful Communist Party have dwindled since Soviet times, its members see themselves as the defenders of the achievements of the old Soviet Union.

    Other communists said the generation born after the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union were being fed revisionist, Hollywood history. They advocated banning the Indiana Jones outright to prevent "ideological sabotage."

    "Our movie-goers are teenagers who are completely unaware of what happened in 1957," St Petersburg Communist Party chief Sergei Malinkovich told Reuters.

    "They will go to the cinema and will be sure that in 1957 we made trouble for the United States and almost started a nuclear war."

    "It's rubbish ... In 1957 the communists did not run with crystal skulls throughout the U.S. Why should we agree to that sort of lie and let the West trick our youth?"

    Vladimir Mukhin, another member of the local Communist Party, said in comments posted on the Internet site that he would ask Russia's Culture Ministry to ban the film for its "anti-Soviet propaganda."

    The Indiana Jones film is not the first Hollywood production to offend Russian sensibilities.

    In 1998 the Russian parliament demanded the government explain why the Hollywood film "Armageddon" - which depicted a dilapidated Russian space station that blows apart because of a leaky pipe - was allowed onto Russian cinema screens.

    A government official at the time said the film, starring Bruce Willis as the leader of a team of astronauts sent to deflect an asteroid on a collision course with Earth, "mocked the achievements of Soviet and Russian technology."

    (Writing by Chris Baldwin, editing by Richard Balmforth)
     
  2. Oissan

    Oissan Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2001
    I thought that they would get their panties in a bunch, crybabies.
    You didn't see Germany complain about the Nazis in in earlier Indy-movies, now did you?
    I really hate people who act like that.

    Besides, what's wrong with the Soviets in this movie?
    Sure, they are a bit over the top, but that's true for the FBI-guys as well. Thsi is Indiana Jones, the bad guys are supposed to be over the top.

    I mean, they accomplish quite a lot (spoiler for those who haven't seen the movie yet):
    They manage to infiltrate one of the most secure military bases in the USA, steal an important "artifact" and solve the puzzle, something the US-army never did, how is that bad?
     
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    It's not like the US army was portrayed any better.
     
  4. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    The Communists actually come off fairly well in the movie. While one might question why they chose to have the Communists actually be authorized Soviet Agents (as opposed to rogue ones like in The Living Daylights), the simple fact is that they make it explicit that Col. Spalko is a Stalinist communist as opposed to a Krushchev communist.

    (my opinion on Krushchev isn't particularly high either but I thought most people agreed Stalin pretty much was either 1 or 2 on the "Most Evil People Who Ever Lived" with Soviets being his chief victims)

    Honestly, I do have to wonder a bit. Why exactly is the US State Department not preparing retalliation for an assault on American soil?
     
  5. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Well, it's a different situation. Germany has been repentant regarding their Nazi years, whereas in Russia, there's still a lot of nostalgia for the Soviet era. And the communist party is still around, whereas the Nazi party is pretty much dead. So they wouldn't even be around to complain.
     
  6. LordNyax113

    LordNyax113 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2007
    I'm certainly not nostalgic for the Soviets era; they oppressed my brothers and sisters in spirit, and frankly, the Soviet's human rights record isn't exactly glamorous. Not to mention the system itself was failing at the end of its run.
     
  7. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    Well, (this is an outside perspective, mind you), from what I've read, there are a fair number of Russians who long for a return to the same level of world influence that the Soviet Union had.
     
  8. Thena

    Thena Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    May 10, 2001
    How many members of the U.S. army actually appear in the movie? Indy's questioned by FBI agents, it's the Army guy who actually stands up for him in that scene.

    And the soldiers by the entrance to the Area 51 zone get ambushed before they have time to react... because the Soviets were wearing U.S. army uniforms.
     
  9. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    It is not the army--it is critical of the U.S. government or at least the McCarthy era paranoia which dominated that government in the late 50s. This film does portray the United States as irrational and paranoid of the Soviets. It is critical of everyone. The portrayal of the Soviet Union is really not harsh at all. It is arguable, but Spalko could be acting more on her own initiative than any directive coming out of the Kremlin. Like most Indy villains, she is more concerned with her individual pursuit of the artificat than the government sponsor. All this proves is that the Russians were interested in acquiring greater technology. Straight forward enough.

    -Seldon
     
  10. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    I meant the American Government more than the Army I guess.

    Spalko was damned hot. I don't see how they could possibly see her as a negative characterization.

    The quest for knowledge is not evil.

    And neither is traipsing around in riding pants and boots while holstering a rapier.
     
  11. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I kind of wondered how Russia would take this when I saw the film. Now I'm sure most Russians don't care that much, but the Communist Party... *sigh*

    I think if your kids are learning history from an Indiana Jones movie you have bigger problems than how your old party is portrayed in said era.

    Also, as many have mentioned, the film's critical of McCarthy government as well. But on the whole it's not really concerned with politics at all. The villains happen to be Russian Communists. That's it.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
     
  12. Klix

    Klix Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Well that tears it...the next Russian blockbuster that -

    Waitaminute...Russia doesn't make blockbusters. [face_shhh]
     
  13. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    They did it about as inoffensively as they could, given the scenario, but I kind of wish they hadn't used the USSR as the new Nazi stand-ins. My regret is for largely personal reasons--my dad and stepmother recently adopted a little Russian boy, who speaks Russian, and who will understand every word of that "foreign people speak harshly in a scary foreign language" dialogue. I also squirmed a bit at the part of the "anthill" scene where Indy is fighting the total stereotypical cold, (almost) unkillable Russian soldier. It'll be hard to look at a kid and have to explain, "Uhh, yeah. That's supposed to be you."

    Dima's only 7 and doesn't need to see this film yet anyway, but the whole family are rabid Lucasfilm fans, so he will end up seeing it, probably sooner than later. When he does, he probably is not going to be able to make distinctions about Spalko actually being Ukrainian and her being a Stalinist Communist rather than a Kruschev Communist. He'll probably miss the McCarthyist parallels as well.

    I can see people having similar concerns for kids seeing the film in Russia.

    I think all my relatives over the age of 10 have already seen "Crystal Skull," but I think I'll call over to my dad's tomorrow anyway, and suggest that they have the little guy miss this one.
     
  14. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    lol commies

    Anyway, to be honest, I had the impression that the fact that they were Soviets and communists was almost unimportant to the historical background of the period. They just happened to be the only ones around. Now, I could see having objections to the bit about enslaving the entire nation and the like but the film did go through pains to link it all with Stalin repeatedly. Yes, children may not get it--but this is not a children's film. It's PG-13 in the United States, and I'm sure it'll have a similar rating abroad. It is meant for people who would have at least a slight bit of understanding, you'd hope.

    And as others have said, the US paranoia came off looking worse than the villains themselves did. I mean, one would think that a sober assessment of how absurd the government was about commies at the time would be welcome.

    EDIT: Also, I just have to be amused the notions of ideological and informational purity those guys are still spouting.
     
  15. Jaina_and_Jag

    Jaina_and_Jag Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2003
    I was more appauled with the FBI's characterization than the Russians. The FBI guys were just flat out jerks, but I can accept that because I know that there was a red scare going on during that era.

    I don't know why they're getting their panties in a bunch, it's just a movie.
     
  16. Thrawn1786

    Thrawn1786 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Well put.

    Their fears may be valid, though...the teacher in my Comparative Government class this past semester said that most Germans learned about the Holocaust via an American tv miniseries in the 1970s; before that, they really had no clue it had even happened.

    Note: I said their fears were possibly valid. I personally think they're being highly silly and taking the film a lot more seriously than even the most diehard Indy fans. :p
     
  17. TaintedJedi

    TaintedJedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2004
    I think the biggest issue is that Nazis are much more easy to "scapegoat" as irredeemable boogie men, the kind of through and through "bad guys". By contrast, Communism has no "genocidal crusade" on the scale of the holocaust to be associated with. In a way, it brings a potentially interesting sort of ambiguity to the whole "black and white" ideas of what is good and evil in the world... But I'm not sure it helped in this cut of the film. Maybe if the story or cut had been different...

    -TJ
     
  18. Palpateen

    Palpateen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2000
    What?

    I suggest you do some wide ranging research on the net about how many people died during the reign of Stalin. His system of communism was hardly "benign." The figures have long been in dispute due to the secrecy of the communist state, and even in 1991 when some archives became available, those figures are in dispute too. What isn't in dispute is that multiple millions died.

    Stalin didn't single out a group of people like Hitler did, but he did terrible things to the Russian people. The Stalin communist era was one of the most ruthless and bloody in history.

    I don't mean that to disparage the Russian people today, it was their leadership that was despicable, not the population as a whole.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

    Also read up on the Gulag Archipelago and the writings of Alexander Solzhenitzen.

     
  19. TaintedJedi

    TaintedJedi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2004
    I'm not saying that Communist Governments didn't do their fair share of horrible things. Many governments have - but I understanding is that Nazis were intrinsically tied to the idea of racial purity -the idea of one race (a laughable concept all on it's own) was superior then others. I don't think Communism has ever made that assertion.

    Thanks for the information.

    -TJ
     
  20. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    FWIW, when I talked to my stepmother I found out they took my wee brother opening night. :oops:

    I wouldn't have done it (my parents wouldn't let me see "Raiders" when I was 8--hey! [face_frustrated]), but he doesn't appear to have been upset by it. He was able to translate some of the Russian for people (I'm sure to the great joy of the patrons sitting behind him), but mostly he just said "Cool!" and "Sweet!" over and over.

    He now speaks conversational Small Boy English, you see. :p

    I hope the film doesn't have any kind of sleeper effect on him, but that's my hang-up.

    At any rate, you are correct, Jello, in saying that little children do not need to be taken to films expressly aimed at people who are teenagers and older--whatever country they're from.
     
  21. WookieeWarrior9

    WookieeWarrior9 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Yeah, some estimates have him responsible for as many as 20 million deaths. The problem is that Hitler was so proud of what he was doing that he took detailed records and Stalin didn't.
     
  22. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I think they're maintaining that Stalinist Communism is essentially, boiled down to its heart, a cult of personality around Stalin and a belief to seize as much of the world as possible. Unlike Hitler, which was ideologically driven, Stalin was actually motivated by pretty much just pure nationalistic greed and a desire to wipe out all dissent to his regime.

    Seriously, there are some people who speculate the only good deed in his ENTIRE LIFE was releasing Priests and Christians from the Gulags because he wasn't a Social Revolutionary like Lenin. He was just a dictator.

    So yes, it's perfectly alright to say Stalinists are pure evil. Unfortunately, its much easier just to call them communists.
     
  23. Hammurabi

    Hammurabi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2007
    For the record, PG-13 doesn't mean that kids won't (or shouldn't) see the film. It's mostly there as an intermediate between PG and R, and the '13' really doesn't mean very much. I mean, Ii was probably about six or seven when I saw my first PG-13 rated film.

    On a related note, it's interesting to rewatch the old Indiana Jones films. Even though they're rated PG, there are moments that would net 'em an R if they were released now. Watch for Indy shooting a guy in the face in the bar shootout in the first film. It's a rather bloody moment.
     
  24. Go-Mer-Tonic

    Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 1999
    Why can't the characterization of the characters be limited to just the characters?

    Why does everyone in the communist party have to feel personally addressed?

    Sure there was a tall stone faced Russian enemy that took a lot of damage, but why would anyone think that's supposed to be a dig at all Russians? To ophelia (who is concerned about having to tell a Russian child that this Russian soldier was supposed to represent them), that's you saying that, not the people who made Crystal Skull. YOU are making that connection.

    These movies are about heroes and villains, someone has to play the villain, and all races and creeds have the same potential for good and bad.
     
  25. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    So ophelia, how do you feel about the fact that Last Crusade was my favourite film when I was 3? :p I get what you mean, though. Though kids are obviously going to see it, the filmmakers have an out in a way because it's PG-13 and then the responsibility on who sees what is on the parents.

    The thing is, I honestly don't think the portrayal has all that much to do with Russians in general really at all. Sure, there's the stereotype of cold commies, but for one thing it's the past, for another it's an exaggerated film in every way, and for another it's about Communist Soldiers, not Russian people. There are no Soviet civilians in the film at all. I mean, there are enough American soldier/law/authority bad guys in American films as well, but I don't think people are meant to think that's a representation of an entire people.

    In short, I can see your concerns for your brother and his special circumstances, but on the whole I think people in general who don't have particular reasons to be sensitive take these things too seriously.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.