Speculation Indispensable character/event/concept references in Ep. VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Julius Vernon, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    There are certain elements of SW that will be indispensable for the sequel trilogy, and others that we may want but are probably not completely required.

    Let's assume that Episode VII features Luke as a starting point.

    If Luke is in the film then by extension the film must feature or at least make reference to their absence:
    • Leia
    • Han
    • Chewbacca
    • R2-D2
    • C-3PO

    I actually think the film could succeed without even a mention of Lando. (It might be disappointing, but I don't think it would create a hole that hurts the film). I don't think other characters of the Rebellion are a must either, as in:
    • Mon Mothma
    • Admiral Ackbar
    • Wedge Antilles
    And as much as some may want it we don't need Boba Fett or even a reference to him.

    Events that must be referenced (even if indirectly):
    • The destruction of the Empire.
    • The death of the Emperor.
    • The redemption of Vader.
    • Depending on the level of underworld use in Ep. VII it may be necessary to at least indirectly reference the destruction of Jabba's crime syndicate.
    • Destruction of the PT Jedi Order.
    • The rule of the Empire.
    • Current state of a galactic Republic or absence thereof.
    Concepts that must be referenced:
    • Jedi (and of course what comes along with that: Force, lightsabers, etc.)
    • Dark Side (perhaps not Sith, but I think you have to have at least the looming threat of the dark side).
    I imagine other things are probably a must, such as Yoda/Obi-Wan's training of Luke, etc. but that kind of depends on the direction they take as well.

    Then of course, if the EU is to be preserved at all you open up a whole set of items that would have to at least be referenced (Anakin, Jacen, Jaina Solo, Ben, Mara, etc, etc).
  2. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I think THE most indespensible part of the ST will be the Big 3. I don't see how they can have one without the other two. IF that were the case then the important demise f why they aren't around becomes boring exposition that is only added for the necessity to explain them away. I find that terrible story-telling. That's why I believe strongly that all 3 will be back regardless, because Disney can throw cash at them. But that won't be necessary as Arndt will write a great script that they will be proud to be part of.

    Chewie and the Droids are given. They're crucial elements of SW but not crucial characters. They give SW that SW feel.

    I also think there will be references to the defeat of Vader and the Emperor, but I suspect that we'll still see Imperial remnants so there will be an omnipresence of the empire still.

    And I don't think we'll hear any refernce to Boba Fett or Jabba since they were really minor characters that were defeated. At least if it is referenced it will be only slightly and probably as a joke.
    Julius Vernon likes this.
  3. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I think there are minimal things that have to be mentioned. Jabba was a reach, but I could see it happening if it leads to who may be the "kingpin" of the underworld at the time of the ST.

    I agree that SW gets that SW feel from the likes of Chewie and the droids. I think Jedi are a given. I don't expect this film to be Underworld (though I'm anxiously awaiting that).
  4. Bazinga'd SWC / PT / Spinoff Manager - Thread Executioner

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 5
    I think the most indispensable concept is the theme of redemption.
  5. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I don't think any of that is required, except maybe the Force stuff.
  6. FryingpoorGreedo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2012
    star 1
    Not only do I think they should have Admiral Ackbar, he's the only indispensable one!
  7. Lando's Little Maneuver Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 2
    IMO the only indispensable character is Luke. Han and Leia should at the very least be referenced along with the conclusion of the civil war. Apart from that you could get away without mentioning anyone else, not a great idea but you could do it.

    That being said, I really hope they don't go overboard trying to over explain or show where every character ended up. The story telling should be paramount over which OT/PT character can we cram into this scene?
    Pro Scoundrel and Julius Vernon like this.
  8. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    I agree that it could be done, but it'd bee cheesy and cheap and, as a HUGE Han Solo fan, I would feel cheated if I didn't get to see his fate decided on screen. I'm okay with him dying heroically -- I just want to see it, NOT hear about it.
  9. Pro Scoundrel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    C'mon, you want him to stay because of the way you feel about him. :)
  10. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Awesome! [face_laugh]
  11. Buddha Fett Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 1999
    star 4
    @ Julius Vernon: "Events that must be mentioned...Destruction of the PT Jedi Order."
    I disagree that this is essential, at least in that context. It's quite clear in the OT that the Jedi are "all but extinct", and there's nothing to suggest that the GFFA at large would even be aware of Luke's rise to power, and subsequent destruction of the Emperor outside of the few Rebels who were aware of him and his deeds. Even Han, who had first hand knowledge seemed both hesitant to believe in the Force, and never really bought into it. I think a more interesting idea to explore is that of the GFFA's total detachment from the ideals of the past (in particular, the whole ideology of the Jedi and The Force), and the implications of that choice. As far as the common 'man' knows, the Jedi were the cause of the destruction of the Republic, which led to Imperial rule. I hope THAT dynamic will be explored. ;)
  12. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Good post. However, I disagree with the common man part. Yes, at first Imperial propaganda would have demonized the Jedi order but after 20 years of tyrranical rule it would have been clear who the real bad guy was. This idea goes hand in hand with the "Jedi Still Hated" thread.
  13. FryingpoorGreedo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2012
    star 1
    I do hope if they involve the OT cast we get closure for them all. I feel we have decent closure if they don't but if they do I wanna know what happens to the big 4 darn it (I'm including Chewie as I doubt they stay loyal to EU)
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  14. Buddha Fett Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 1999
    star 4
    Yes. Han is essential, as is his fate. Sure, Luke's torpedo destroyed the Death Star in ANH, but Han's intervention made it possible. Han also stuffed Luke into a Tauntaun and saved his life. Han also 'accidentally' set off Fett's jet-pack when he had Luke dead in his sights. Relegating him to a minor status and killing him off-screen would be a grievous mistake, IMO. Same with Leia. We need closure with them if we're to move forward. Yes, it COULD be done...but it really shouldn't be.
    Darth Chiznuk and Echo-07 like this.
  15. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    Abso-smurfin-lutely! Yo don't just throw out a couple line sof exposition explaining why two of the most iconic characters in human history are absent. There's no way Disney effs this up. IF Harrison and Carrie and Mark don't appear it won't be because Disney didn't do everything possible to persuade them, IE Money & perks.
  16. clone3131 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2004
    star 4
  17. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    They absolutely CAN'T have the sequel trilogy without Dak being resurrected. He needs a chance to take on the whole Empire himself.
  18. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I would like to get a Darth Vader shadow reference from Luke. Just once. Like in the Anakin TPM posters.
    LawJedi likes this.
  19. stellarmagic01 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    The Star Wars films have a pretty dependable pattern and structure, and I'm not talking about plot but the heroic group...

    The Three... AKA the Trio are the main focus of the story, they usually are the protagonist, the lancer, and the romantic interest.
    The Protagonist - Anakin Skywalker in II-III, Luke Skywalker in IV-VI, Ben Skywalker in VII-IX?
    The Lancer - Obi-wan Kenobi in II-III, Han Solo in IV-VI, Jaina or Jacen Solo in VII-IX?
    The Love Interest - Padme Amidala in II-III, Leia Organa in IV-VI, ??? in VII-IX?

    The Chorus or Bards... Our Storytellers.
    Artoo and Threepio

    Attachments... the sidekicks and characters that 'can die'. There tends to be 5 in the heroic group (7 if you count the chorus). Heroic teams traditionally are groups of 3, 5, 7, or at the very most 9 characters. Star Wars uses 7 (The Trio + the Chorus + 2 Attachments).

    A quick look tells us something important, for one thing... there is always a brotherly pairing in the trio (Anakin and Obi-wan, Luke and Han)... the children of the previous heroes make up the new heroes in each trilogy... and so forth. If Luke is used either as the Grandmaster of the Order (The Yoda) or the Mentor (The Obi-wan) then I would expect reference to the other characters from the OT... especially as there's no reason for the parentage of the new heroes to be hidden, and we expect them to use children of the previous group.

    If Ben Skywalker is used, it'll be very difficult not to reference his mother or include her... and we obviously would need to see Luke.
    If the Solo kids are used, it'll be very difficult not to reference or include Leia and Han...
    If Han Solo is used, it'll be very difficult to to include or reference Chewbacca...

    And so forth... unless someone dies onscreen it's hard not to reference or include people from the previous generation, so yeah... Luke, Leia, and Han would obviously need to appear. Han would bring Chewie. Artoo and Threepio are guaranteed to be in it as they're our 'storytellers' and since Threepio is Leia's droid, and Artoo is Luke's droid it's highly likely we'll get at least one Skywalker and one Solo in the new trio.
  20. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 2
    Nice post, but am I the only one who feels that retreading all of the OT characters would come off as poorly as Indy 4? Even ROTJ pushed the boundaries on cast reunions (the scene in the rebel strategy room when Luke returns from Degobah).
    TheManFromMortis likes this.
  21. Separatist101 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2010
    star 3
    aye
    Separatist101 threw 6-faced die for: shit Total: 3
  22. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    The difference between Indy and this is that with SW, if you follow the pattern, the previous trilogy characters are off to the side or referenced and are not the main characters.
  23. Lord TW Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 25, 2012
    star 2
    That's my point...they should continue that in the new trilogy. Do NOT have a reunion just for the sake of a reunion, especially in "happy heroes reunite" style of Indy 4. They don't work.
    Darth_Articulate likes this.
  24. Julius Vernon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2012
    star 3
    I think there are certain minimal things that we have to see in this new trilogy though.

    Before the PT we knew we had to see certain items:
    • Anakin Skywalker
    • Obi-Wan Kenobi
    • Yoda
    • The Republic
    • Clone Wars
    • Anakin having children
    • The rise of the Emperor
    While this being a sequel and not a prequel makes it less restrictive, the very fact that it is Ep. VII and not Ep. I of some other saga means that there are certain things that we will see. If early rumors are true about this being set 30-40 years after Ep. VI and portraying Luke in some capacity I think the sequel must portray Han, Leia, Chewbacca, and the Droids or at the very least address their absence (which would be cheap IMO).

    The Empire will have to be addressed in some capacity as will the new Galactic government.

    If we get Luke with no mention of Han, Leia, Chewbacca there will be a glaring hole that will be a major flaw of the films.
    Last edited by Julius Vernon, Jan 3, 2013
  25. General Immodet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    In my opinion, the new movies would better not make too much references to past events or to characters of the OT.
    If they want to attract an audience, they will probably not talk of events and characters that/who are not relevant.