Indy 4--inter-dimensional question

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by Darth-Seldon, Dec 22, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    No doubt this issue has been covered before. I just rewatched Indy 4 (it wasn't bad as I remember but I still prefer the original trilogy.) In any case, two major questions remain:

    1. What was the rationale for making them inter-dimensional beings residing "in the space between space" as opposed to aliens. I never understood the reasoning or what inter-dimensional really means.

    2. As a minor point, were those Incan soldiers guarding the temple for thousands of years? I still don't understand who these guys were.

    Thanks,
    -Seldon
  2. thejeditraitor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 4
    they were beings from a different dimension.
  3. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Thanks.
    What was the Lucas/Spielberg rationale for this?
  4. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    To make it sound smarter than it actually was. [insert voice of Fredo Corleone "I'm smart! I can do things! I'm smart!" into this]
  5. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Yeah I guess you're right.
    Maybe partly out of Spielberg's reluctance to do yet another alien movie. He's on the record saying enough is enough (ET, Close Encounters, War of the Worlds, arguably AI.) Which is part of the reason he rejected the Lucas idea of making Indy 4 a true alien invasion movie with UFOs bombarding cities...
    What it comes down to though is this whole inter-dimensional thing is convoluted, confusing--etc. Ox's explanation in the temple doesn't make any sense (at least to me.) Portals into another dimension? Come on.

  6. firesaber Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2006
    star 3
    Its as the other poster said. Speilberg even talks about it on the DVD. He already made his alien movie(s) and wanted this to come from a different direction.
  7. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I understand Spielberg's point but here's the thing--it just seems to confuse the audience (or at the very least I'm confused.) This isn't so much a plot twist (inter-dimensional not aliens) as it is a jumbled mess. Ox's explanations land flat on deaf ears--they don't make sense. An audience can understand that aliens were influencing the Incans--but what of this inter-dimensional element?
    It just seems unnecessary. I was hoping someone had some insight into this.

    Also any thoughts on the Incan guards--were they living there generation after generation as a lost civilization? Still unclear.
  8. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Seldon.....it's simple. The script hedged. It was a bad part of the script. Your questions are completely valid and aren't answered well in the movie.
  9. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    It's a science fiction concept that allows the storytellers to play with the idea of "alien" beings and "alien" visitation without the baggage that comes with "aliens" from our universe, our dimension of space-time. Obviously that kind of alien has been done many, many times, particularly by these filmmakers. This is simply another kind of alien, one that transcends our dimension. That's it.

    I personally don't see at as a "bad" idea, as Shanerjedi does, but it is perhaps needlessly complex.
  10. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2002
    star 5
    I like the explanation that they're interdimensional beings gives them another wrinkle then your standard issue alien. As for the line "The space between spaces." it's one of my favorite and ties in really well with one of the themes of the Indy series which is there is always some kind of mysterious power bigger then you and me.
  11. Duragizer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2009
    star 3
    To me it sounds like something H.P. Lovecraft would put in one of his stories - if Lovecraft were lame, that is.
  12. thejeditraitor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 4
    if you dont get it then you're a moron.
  13. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Yeah, because the power of God opening up the heavens, blood that turns you evil when you drink it, and a magic cup that makes you live forever are so grounded in reality.:rolleyes:

    I'm fine with people who find flaws in the execution (I certainly do), but I just don't understand having a problem with the very premise of aliens.

  14. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Now you know how it feels to be a PT fan dealing with OT fans. [face_whistling]

    Seldon, this article will get your mind whirring:

    http://www.mstrmnd.com/indiana_jones
  15. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Since when are you fine with people finding flaws with the execution?:p
  16. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Eh, the real question is the music the score gives the aliens. They're presented with lofty goals and reasons in the film-collecting all knowledge, gifting humanity with the means to construct buildings, etc.

    But listen to the score. It's easily the most ominous thing Williams has done in years. It's not a good-guy theme; it's right there with the Emperor's Theme for inherent malevolence.

    I'd really like the see the aliens back again, as the bad guys they clearly are. :p
  17. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Thanks for the article Cyro.
    Interesting read--and one explanation. I don't buy into everything--there is a danger in over analyzing these movies. At times the fan is reading in things that were never intended.
  18. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    I completely agree.

    I have no problem with the aliens being rebranded interdimensional beings. I think it's very Indy in that it takes a basic concept and riffs on it. Why do you people want scientific explanations? As far as we know, they're made up. Nobody is trying to prove or justify any existence. I think their relative ambiguity helps the film more than it does hinder it. Can you imagine if we got one piece of tired exposition after the other, relentlessly, trying to justify such an odd, fictional concept? It would drag it down.
  19. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    To clear this up--I'm not asking for a scientific justification.
    I was simply wondering why inter-dimensional vs. regular aliens. What was the plot motivation for it? That was it.

    In terms of aliens in general--I do think this is a departure from the first three movies (whether good or bad.) The earlier films all revolved around religious artifacts. While there was supernatural elements for sure--it was grounded in a religious tradition (at least loosely.) Here, George did go in a different direction. He wanted a 50s B movie feel--a saucer men from Mars type theme.
  20. d_arblay Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 4
    That was your original question, yes, but you have been quick to criticise the legibility of it all in your subsequent responses, such as "Ox's explanations land flat on deaf ears--they don't make sense" and "Portals into another dimension? Come on.". My point and JKH's original point was that these movies have never really been and dont have to be realistic, while I also noted my belief that they shouldn't get bogged down in too much exposition justifying the supernatural.

    Regardless, my statement about people wanting explanations for things or feeling things aren't justified wasn't specifically aimed at you (in fact it was more inspired by Shaner's comment - "your questions are completely valid and aren't answered well in the movie") - it was more at the general complaints of fans who feel the interdimensional aspect wasn't adequately explained or justified within the film - something I refute as being of very little importance to the enjoyment of the picture.
    Exactly. And shaking things up is no bad thing. It probably ended up a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont. Had Spielberg and Lucas stuck mercilessly to the original religious-themed formats, it would have almost certainly warranted bashings along the lines of "we've been and done this all before". I think what they did worked very well for Indy and didn't at all feel out of place. Setting it in the 50's was a given and utilising the whole alien interest of that time along with Area 51 etc. was a wonderful concept, in my opinion.
  21. Obironsolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2005
    star 1
    I think people just didn't get what Lucas was trying to say here.

    In my opinion, Lucas was trying to draw a philosophical comparison between "higher powers" referenced in religious belief systems, and "higher powers" that might exist from a more scientific perspective that could conceivably some day be proven physically by scientists. The "inter-dimensional" idea was simply to highlight this notion.

    Most religions claim the existence of higher powers, either "beings" of higher intelligence, or "energy" that informs us from a higher place. In most of these cases, these intelligences are viewed as coming from a spiritual place, which exists both within and outside of us. But in actuality, these intelligences are simply coming from somewhere else. Somewhere beyond our world. Thus, you can make a logical argument that in a way, these intelligences are "alien." So why would it be so different if there were alien beings of higher intelligence that interacted with us, unbeknownst to us, in a "spiritual" way? These aliens could exist in another dimension, which is a scientific way of saying "not from the world as we know it" but rather "from a higher plane" or as they say "the space between spaces".

    It's essentially what Carl Sagan and Zemeckis were going for in Contact. What if the higher intelligence of religion and the higher intelligence of aliens were actually one in the same? Might the two somehow merge in the future? Is it possible that science will ultimately lead us to the same conclusions that are religions do? I'm not saying Lucas was implying these aliens were God himself. But rather both "spiritual" "alien" beings, that have interacted and affected our lives.

    Yes, I know Spielberg wasn't crazy about aliens, and yes, I know Lucas came up with this idea later in the game. And yes, I know Spielberg sort of mocked it in the makiing of doc as being a meaningless distinction. I just don't think Lucas even got into this philosophical stuff with Spielberg. Nevertheless, this is what I believe his intention was when he changed the aliens to "inter-dimensional" beings.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.