Discussion in 'Literature' started by Master_Keralys, Jan 1, 2009.
I will make it canon.
I started watching Doctor Who several months ago I believe (I'd have to look at the Doctor Who thread in Community to see and I'm too lazy at the moment). I'm a fan of NuWho but have not tried Classic Who. I think I have a mental block due to not being a fan of 60s TV in General.
My sons watch NuWho with me and now they're pulling up Classic Who on Netflix.
I'd say it was "Jacksonverse" canon, at least.
But then so is this
Tolkien canon is just as controversial as SW canon. Which one is more canon, the short story of Galadriel doing stuff or an essay Tolkien wrote much later but never completed which would have had Galadriel not doing stuff?
Even stuff in The Hobbit or LotR can lead to bitter debates. Balrog Wings is the old Star Destroyer Numbers.
Bah, I already made that reference a couple of months ago.
But boy, the Tolkien purists... I've been surprised at the vitriol hurled at Christopher Tolkien, especially over publishing the Simarillion. They should step back and look at what Frank Herbert's son did and then profusely thank him for oh, I don't know, publishing an exhaustive scholarly series detailed every aspect of Tolkien's Middle Earth writings.
Then there's Tauriel the hot elf love interest that Tolkien never met, and Legolas showing up in The Hobbit.
Oh, the movies are a different set of fish to fry.
Strangely enough, it seems rare for someone to really like the movies and really like the novels. I actually like both - and I don't have a problem with the "stretching out" of the Hobbit. Films and novels are two different beasts, and there's only a few real problems I have with the LOTR movies (off the top of my head - the excising of Saruman's end at the beginning of ROTK; the non-cliffhanger ending to TTT; and while I didn't have a problem with the elves showing up at the Battle of Helm's Deep, but if the reasoning was to show a parallel to the Last Alliance WHY WEREN'T THERE ANY DWARVES*.)
*Sorry JRRT, but I just can't use "dwarrows" or whatever the proper plural is supposed to be.
I'd say that I really like the novels, even if my love doesn't approach that of the ultra purists, and won't hesitate to say that the Lord of the Rings films are just fantastic movies. The Fellowship of the Ring, in particular, is pitch perfect. The only problem I have with it is that Gimli is made into a shallow comic relief character, but that's easily made up by Sean Bean's performance (I don't care how much of a Tolkien fan you are, you simply can't argue that Boromir wasn't made a more well-rounded character in the film). While the latter two deviate in places I don't think they should, they are still very well done (Return of the King much more so, I'd argue). I'm actually somewhat mystified by the purists who consider the films some kind of assault on Tolkien's legacy. Compared to, I don't know, practically every other novel-to-film adaptation (particularly genre works), the love paid to the source material is monumental. They're better adaptations than nearly any other franchise could ever hope for. I suppose I just don't understand the mindset that says its a better idea to complain and nitpick about an unabashed tribute to a favorite work than to enjoy that its being brought to life and celebrated in new ways.
I'm less enthusiastic about The Hobbit movies. They're fun, and it's nice to see well done fantasy films at all, but they don't even begin to approach the LOTR movies.
I prefer the films because there's less singing.
I also like both.
While I occasionally make comparisons about how individual scenes played out and wish certain things played out differently, overall I treat all works on their own merits, based on the simple criteria of "was I entertained?"
About Shadows of Mordor: My response was something like "Wow, this is about as far from the themes of Tolkien as you can get and I think it would work better set in its own world - but that gameplay looks really f***ing interesting so I will have to keep an eye on this."
And that was after taking a few minutes to calm myself down and think of all the ways the nemesis system probably won't be as good as it looks.
I like Jackson's films, but I thought the pretty elves showing up in The Hobbit was ridiculous.
So that was the first time that I've had to literally get out and push a car up a snowy hill. Fun times.
I'm crocheting an Alakazam plushie.
What the hell is wrong with me? D:
Make a Fluttershy one as well and you should be fine.
@TrakNar -- don't listen to him. He has no idea what he's doing.
Evangeline Lilly is welcome in all things at all times.
I was toying with the idea of crocheting an Ewok plushie, as I'll have plenty of brown yarn left.
I don't know anything about LOTR because I saw the movies a long time ago and never read the books, but I'll agree that the Hobbit films aren't so great. I liked the first one well enough -- it was novel, felt fun and adventurous-y, but the second one just dragged on and on and felt a lot like PJ being self-congratulatory the whole time.
I hated her in LOST. Well, not her I guess, but her character.
well, he does have a rather squishy defense rating...
Then you were watching it wrong.
Meanwhile, have begun watching Veronica Mars, in preparation for the movie. I donated to the Kickstarter, so I might as well see what the fuss is about.
She was a liar and a criminal! Pretty much everyone on that island was a criminal and a horrible person. With perhaps three or four exceptions.
VMars is cool though.
I really like all the Middle-Earth films, and DOS was the first film I have ever watched twice in the theater. I except the last film to be another, because I like dragons, okay?
But while I know Tolkien's books inside out (with the exception of Silmarillion, I draw blank when I try to remember the family trees) I don't really care about the changes when adapting a story to another medium. Now if they wrote their own stories set in Middle-Earth I'd like them to keep the "historical details" right. Authentic rather than accurate, perhaps. I see any story set in the world of Middle-Earth as a story of events in history, and when you look at stories set in our history you can see that they are inaccurate more often than not. And don't tell me that whoever elf first wrote the Song of Beren and Luthien checked all the details and made sure that his song was just as it happened.
And the differences between the writing styles of Hobbit and LotR can be traced back to their original writers. When Bilbo wrote the story of his adventure, he looked back at it with rose-tinted glasses ("I meant to go back. Wander the paths of Mirkwood, visit Laketown, see the Lonely Mountain again.") and meant the story as more of a bedtime story for children. Frodo wrote his story when his wounds still troubled him and since he was a history nut, inserted a lot of stuff that perhaps didn't interest anyone but him. Bilbo was an entertainer, Frodo was a scholar.
I love the books and the movies. Except the Hobbit movies, which are kind of turds. There's just no . . . magic. The LOTR movies, for all their flaws, captured the magic, the beauty, the heart of the books. The Hobbit movies are just a guy dawdling in his old sandbox for a while, trying to turn a classic children's tale into a pale imitation of the epic saga he made first. AUJ was just completely unmemorable. Lazy, self-indulgent, and completely unmemorable.
Son, this better mean you've finished Mad Men.
Almost done with the fourth season, in fact, which has been my favorite so far. I've kept notes on various highlights throughout the season, which I'll post soon. For now, though, I will ask this; do you think it was a flaw of the season to pull so much focus away from Betty, and in the process make her even less of a sympathetic character than she was before, or did it better convey Don's isolation from her and his children? I tend towards the former- she's dropped even lower in my least favorite characters list this season- but as a result it seems harder not to better emphasize when Don hits rock bottom, and understand why he spoils Sally.
Also still waiting for Henry Francis to get better, for details I'll get into next time I post on the subject.