ST Instead of plot holes, let's talk about the pointless stuff of 8

Absolutelly personal point of view.
Fell free to disagree.
I don't want to convince nobody, just share my opinion.
And feel free to add something, if you want to.

Pointless is Finn's arc.
You may have take him in a coma all along the movie and let him wake up in IX as someone who's already committed to the Resistance, given... that TFA existes. And that his journey from a stromtrooper to someone who finds the courage to face Kylo Ren (and almost dies doing) is not only enough to get to that point, but far more interesting than what we see in TLJ. Did he really need additional reasons, another journey from escaping to commitment? No. And please don't tell me that in TFA he does what he does because of Rey while now it's his own choice. Because he still does almost everything he does for Rey. But sure he also gets some kind of epiphany from Rose, a pointless one: because in 7 he didn't need it. That "In my first mission I've decidied not to kill for them" was another far better point to move forward.

Pointless is all the Resistance plot.
Suddenly the Resistance fleet that was decimated in TFA, may count on Bombers, A-Wings, etc... Good. They find some time to get them (but there was not time for Rey and Poe to introduce one another). However, the point af all this huge fleet, it's just that it's going to be destroyed AGAIN during TLJ.
Worst. Pointless is demoting Poe for having not obeyed a direct order. Given that when later on he put in montion a secret mission (that of Rose and Finn) that causes the almost total distruction of what is left of the Fleet (something worst that what happened when he disobeyed) and... a MUNITY but: no one cares.
Worst: Leia now thinks he's ready to become a leader, because he doesn't kill himself to save all the rest of them, just like Holdo did 5 minutes before. WTF?

But pointless is all Poe's arc.
Not only because - but I admit that may be just my pov - he was far more iteresting in ep. VII just because he was portrayed as a 34 years old experienced soldier and as an hero without being a hothead kid (= not as the most obvious of the clichès) and with a different kind of humor than that of Han Solo.
But because the theme of passing the torch has been far better handeled in Poe's comimic: issue #°14. A gem if compared to this movie. Past and copy sometimes it' not that pointless. Personally I'm going to erase from my mind his arc in 8, pretending that issue #14 is all the (non-pointless) canon.

Pointless is Luke almost killing young Ben Solo while sleeping. Thus, the almost killing of whatever Luke Skywalker has been.
It's poitless in Luke's arc. He doesn't need that to face failure as a Jedi Master, as an ucle and as brother. Ben's fall is enough.

It may be not pointless to remind us all, ep. III.
First, Obi Wan doesn't want to face (thus try to kill) Anakin
when he finds out that Anakin turned and killed the young padawans (see Ow and Yoda dialogue in the Jedi Temple).
When they finally meet, OW speaks to him. And only then - resigned - he says "Then I'll do what I must".
Finally, he doesn't finish is ex pupil.
Because not even in those circumstances that is the Jedi way.
But I have to believe that even only thinking about the chance to kill a boy while sleeping is not out of Luke's character and out of common SW sense.
Because apparently we need some pointless shocking truths - he "almost" did it, in fact - to call a movie... a masterpiece.

But the almost killing of young Ben Solo is pointless also in regards of the building up of the force-skype calls plot, if we really think about it.
You don't need that.
You already have plaint of plot points and devices to do that.
So much so, it's pointless to list them all.
But I'll just mention, the force bond per se: Snoke's driven or interrogation scene driven or something else driven (the right answer may not be a plot hole, but sure it's a mistery box) + [insert plot point wathever] because, for instance...

Pointless, if Rey is a nobody (something that I personally welcome) is to stick around 2 hours about it.
Let her say it/find out in the first 10 minutes.
She's still a nobody, she was still abandoned, worst "sold out".
It's enough to do whatever you want to do with the force-skype-calls etc... If you know how to do it.
There are planty of chances to manipule her. If you really want to make her look an idiot that suddenly trusts Kylo Ren, becuase what you really want to do is... a Space Twilight Saga movie.

Pointless is Snoke's backstory. Agree. I can't care less about it. But not his death, that changes the set up. Good. But so it's how you get there.
Because - to me - it makes Kylo's psycology not a plot hole but something far more incomprehensible than a black hole.

EP. 7: tempted by the light and played - according to Han and Leia - by Snoke.
NOVELS IN BETWEEN: maybe manipuleted by Snoke, from Leia's womb. I've never buy it. But some did. Thus maybe their expectations about the supreme villain, were partially feed.

EP. 8: Traumatized by Luke. Maybe feeling alone. Far more manipulated than we already thought he was by Snoke. Suddendly someone seeking power that manipulates Rey.

To use again some comparisons - and again not to regret the old good times, but just to let us better understand each other -
SW used to have 1 twist, that changed forever the Saga and Film-making.
Still it gives chills.

Better/worst: to use again ep. III, I knew (each one of us did) how the story was going to end. But still - no matter all that movie weaknesses - watching Obi Wan vs Anakin gives me chills.

I didn't get one form the so called twist of Snoke's death.
I said so called, because if you have a decent amount of common sense, and you know that there's going to be ep. IX, it's pretty soon predictable how is going to go. So at least to me, it was emotionally pointless.

Pointless was the Chosen One prophecy, Anakin's arc and all the first 6 movies.
"there was balance for a while, then my nephew turned".
That's the shocking truth.
And pointeless are all those fan theories (of all kind) about it, That I've found more interesting than that.

Pointless is the hero's journey, the tropes of mythology and storytelling... if you want something fresh and new.
Ok. But I like them best.
And it's personal taste.

 

Porgs

 

"Salt."

 

We could do this to all of the films. Even the greatest ones!

Pointlessness is Luke Skywalker checking out an asteroid in the middle of a blizzard and life on a snow planet where the heroes are ill equipped for search and rescue during bad weather despite advanced tech.

Pointlessness is the Oxogorth scene in The Empire Strikes Back.

Pointlessness is Leia being forced into a bikini for no other reason than to increase sex appeal after making her a feminist icon.

Pointlessness is believing that Jabba wouldn't have any strong heavies in his palace if he's this huge notorious gangster who can barely function on his own. How could he stay in power as a glutenous slug without

Pointlessness is setting up Leia as a feminist icon in ANH and then running out of ideas for her to do except to pine for Han and completely cut her out of the Father and child stuff being explored in the saga.

Pointlessness is having the audience fear one death star and then seeing it blown up and then just building one more which they've already seen.

Pointlessness is Han having the heart of gold so soon and never having anything test him to bring him back to what he once was the rest of the way. His challenges are just physical after that and once he's nice guy Han he's forever a hero committed to the Rebellion fully. No old allies offering up lucrative opportunities to test him. Nothing.

Pointlessness is setting up the most fearless bounty hunter in the galaxy and then having him fall down into a hole.

Pointless is setting up the most fearsome villain who treats Vader like an attack dog suddenly being powerslammed like a wheel-chair bound old man for a good 3 or 4 seconds without being able to do anything against being picked up.

Pointlessness is having Lando wine and dine the people he's about to badly betray for no other reason than a twist and false drama.

Pointlessness is Lando's arch being essentially Han's arc, which we'd already experienced in the same trilogy, right down to using the Falcon to play a key role at the end of the film.

Pointlessness is the deus Ex-machina of our heroes being sidelined by the need to deceive a native race of Teddy Bears that your robot is a god so that they will help you defeat the Empire forces with logs.

Pointlessness is imaging that Vader's rep for killing people wouldn't have been known by all of these subordinates who just constantly doubt his authority over and over again.

Pointlessness is Vader interogating his own daughter and not even picking up anything on her being his offspring despite numerous other Force connection tie-ins.

Pointlessness is Yoda nearly beating the Emperor and then disappearing for decades with no purpose when he also has the guy in Obi-Wan who already defeated Vader once on his side and the Empire slowly getting more and more ruthless.

Pointlessness is having 3 films to show a descent into darkness of Anakin Skywalker and leaving most of it until the final 40 minutes and him believing that Mace Windu just randomly attacked Palpatine and then immediately falling in line after he witnesses him shoot lightening and kills someone he knows and then immediately going to kill all of the little kids who'd looked up to him in the academy.

Pointlessness is spending lots of screen time with Vader and never showing any actual feelings at all towards either of his kids, even with the mask off, until the powerslam moment after a long period of head turning to signify "Should I help this guy who's my son, or defeat this horrible boss?"

We could go into the prequels a lot more but why bother. If we can do this with great films like Empire and ROTJ it's obviously possible with most.

 

Don't we already have a "List your complaints" thread?

 

none of that is pointless.

 

The whole movie?

 

So we are left with: Opening crawl, milking scene and credits.

 

None of that is pointless.

I'd argue that pointlessness was the Crait sally. It's an inferior action scene sandwiched between two great ones (the Rey/Ben vs. the Praetorians fight and Luke's stand), and accomplishes nothing but blowing up redshirts and setting up Rose and Finn's kiss.

 

I would say that the Crait battle serves as setup for the Luke projection vs. Kylo thing though. Like, the Resistance tries their best to get to the battering ram cannon, but the First Order firepower is too great, which forces the Resistance fighters into retreat. The battle ends with the battering ram cannon blowing a hole through the gate of the base. With the Resistance seemingly out of options since the Battle of Crait was more or less their last stand, all hope seems lost. Then enters Luke, who is able to distract Kylo Ren and the First Order long enough for the Resistance to figure out a way out of the base in order to escape.

So, I think that the outcome of the battle (the Resistance failing to stop the cannon, thus blowing a hole through the only entrance or exit into the base) is crucial to setting up Luke's sacrifice. If he shows up and distracts the First Order before the battle even begins, then it doesn't feel like his sacrifice is quite as necessary. In my opinion, of course.

Anyway, I agree with everyone else that nothing listed in the original post is really as pointless as they're made out to be, but whatever!

 

The entire movie felt like filler.

The relevant parts of the story could have been done in a 30 second flashbacks during TFA.