Inter-Faith Chapel, Now Disc: Made to Worship?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Jedi Merkurian, Jan 31, 2006.

  1. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Well, that was weird! I was supposed to make a point, and the thread posted before I could get started :oops:

    Anyways, I've noticed that there are a lot of Senators who have very strong beliefs that they assert. What happens unfortunately is that they run into someone who stridently dissagrees with them, and folks "dig in their heels" as it were. They then become so entrenched in their position, so concerned with being "right," that they fail to listen for any kernels of wisdom that may be found in the opposing position.

    The purpose of this thread, is where folks can discuss their beliefs without having to suffer the slings & arrows of others, or to hurl slings & arrows ourselves. Where folks can learn from each other ways that we can be better servants of God, however one envisions God to be. To that effect:

    This is not a "my God > your God" thread. This is not a place to get into discussions of whether Christianity is "better" than Islam (for example). Similarly,

    This is not a "my Bible > your Bible" thread." There are who knows how many translations of the Christian Bible out there. This is a place to discuss similarities, not differences.

    If you have an axe to grind with a particular religion, or religion in general, take your grievances elsewhere. 'nuff said.

    Atheists ARE welcome here, so long as it's not to say "god iz teh st00pid!!1!11!!" or some foolishness. See the previous house rule. Likewise, we shouldn't be saying in effect "get thee behind me, unbeliever!" to atheists. We might have something both to teach AND to learn from atheists. But for that to happen, all parties involved have to be willing to listen.

    I'll continue with my opening thoughts once I get this (nm) thing figured out...[face_blush]

    Just to reiterate - This is not the place to evangelize or prozletyze, at least not in the classical sense. Too quickly it devolves into:

    Poster A: I believe....
    Poster B: I don't.
    Poster A: Well you should!
    Poster B: But I don't!

    And so on, which stifles real discourse. Likewise,

    This is not a "debunking" thread. See the "axe to grind" house rule.

    This is an offical-type endorsement thingy etc[tm]
  2. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Just out of interest (and I'm not specifically questioning you), but why does it matter to anyone what other people think of their faith ?

    Why do some people feel it necessary to broadcast their faith to others ?

    Surely faith is something you have personally, and doesn't apply to anyone else other than you.
  3. DARTHJOSEPH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 2
    I could see this thread as an opportunity to learn and interact with people with different beliefs. I have studied many religions but cannot claim to know everything. A chance to educate others on your beliefs perhaps?
  4. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

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    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    malkie, I guess I don't understand the question. I would point out that most faiths have aan obligation for their members to proselytize (or at least, its strongly encouraged) but it seems like your asking something slightly different. Could you rephrase?
  5. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    [Samuel L. Jackson]Exactamundo![/Samuel L. Jackson] :cool: I see this as a place both to teach AND to learn, without getting into the usual combativeness that usually accompanies religious-based posts.
  6. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

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    I suppose I'm asking why that's the case (that most religions require you to tell others about it) ? Fear that your religion will come to an end ?
  7. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

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    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I am an atheist/agnostic who is also an unabashed fan of the new testament. I've lived my life at the intersection of faith and empiricism. My father was a scientist and an educator dedicated to the values of learning and empirical research but also deeply religious. In that sense I am a child of my past.

    As free thinkers, we are able to start from scratch to build a spiritual and ethical understanding of our relationship with others and the world as a whole. We are not bound to any doctrine, need not look past our own intellect in establishing a moral structure for our lives. But for me that understanding brought me back to the New Testament as a gold mine for careful thought on important ethical questions. At the same time, I would not reject other sources of western or non western religion and philosophies as worthy inspirational texts.
  8. DARTHJOSEPH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 2
    So I'll start...

    In two days is the pagan holiday of Imbolc...many may also note this is what we all know as Groundhogs day. Many, many years later the Christians adopted this day as "The Feast of the Purification of the Virgin (Mary) Christians placed candles for the upcomming year in the western church to be purified, this came to be known as Candlemas. Imbolc or Candelmas is the time to honor the celtic goddess Brigid. It is a time of "spring cleaning," a time of rebirth, renewal and purification. The preparation for spring and a chance for new hope, new growth and new beginnings. So as we all wait eagarly to see old Pauxatauny Phil predict when spring will come and winter end...try to use it as an opportunity for a fresh start, the busy holidays are over, new year has come and passed and now it's time to greet the comming of spring!


    EDIT: Still can't spell....
  9. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    It's interesting how many things in western culture are the result of Christianity "assimilating" pagan rites & traditions...

    EDIT: You guys are posting faster than I can compose my thoughts! [face_blush]
  10. jedi979 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 2
    The reason so many people refuse to believe in God is that, because of our fallen nature, we are in rebellion against Him. We don't want to acknowledge that without Him we have no hope. We want to be our own man. We want the credit. That's why when all is said and done, most people are going to spend eternity seperated from God. It's sad, because everyone has an equal shot at eternal life: Jesus Christ. It's like a drowning person refusing to take the lifeline that has been thrown to them. The greatest tragedies are the ones that could have been easily avoided, but weren't.

    p.s. I'm sorry if this is regarded as "religious zealotry", but it's something I feel needs to be said.
  11. DARTHJOSEPH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
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    jedi979 I have to disagree with you.

    We are raised in a christian society. I tried my hand at many religions. I never wanted to be a pagan but it found me. The first time I read "The Spiral Dance" by Starkhawk, I was reasearching for a paper of Wicca and witchcraft. I was shocked that the personal beliefs I had formed over the years had a name. I discredit christianity not because I disagree with the teachings of Christ ( I do ) Christ preached love, respect and understanding...something that some contemporary christians seem to disregard. The Crusades, bombing abortion clinics, etc. are intollerable acts commited by christians in the name of God. More people in the history of the world have been killed in the name of God than in all the wars combined, people from my faith especially have suffered from christian persecution. Not to mention the Ku Klu Clan uses the bible to defend hatred. This is why I reject christianity.

    EDITED to capitalize Christ out of respect.
  12. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The reason so many people refuse to believe in God is that, because of our fallen nature, we are in rebellion against Him. This is a critical point of communicative failure between theists and atheists.

    For the atheist/agnositc, there is no evidence for the existence of a supernatural creator, and no reason to believe in one despite the lack of evidence. Allow me to continue:

    Jedi979: There's plenty of evidence, you just refuse to accept it.
    Jabb: I've seen what the faithful call evidence. I find it unconvincing.
    Jedi979: If you'd stop rebelling against God, you wouldn't need convincing.

    and so on.
  13. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    "It's like a drowning person refusing to take the lifeline that has been thrown to them. "

    Aye, here is the challenge of all faithful: how do we get someone to see that they're drowning, and how can we throw the line to them so as to make them want to take it?

    Too many times, I've seen Christians (for example) simply say "the Bible says..." and just leave it at that without going into why it's right. The message gets rejected, and the person goes "*sigh* I tried Lord, but they just don't get it."

    Something I learned from network marketing is this: People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." In order to communicate with someone, really communicate, you have to take the time to find some common foundation from which to operate. You have to figure out where they are before you can lead them anywhere. That takes work. Without that effort, it's like throwing the lifeline to port when the person is overboard to starboard, and then wondering why they haven't pulled themselves in.
  14. DARTHJOSEPH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
    star 2
    Jabbadabbado is correct here. Let's not get into battles over beliefs...let's ask questions and be open to new ideas. Just because you don't agree, there is no need to state your beliefs so concretely. Be confident in yourself and your ideas but be open to others also.
  15. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    For the longest time I also had a problem with Christianity, for the selfsame reasons. Here's something that occurred to me that I'll pass on to you:

    Don't let anything as insignificant as "Christians" come between you and Christ.
  16. DARTHJOSEPH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
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    Wise words....however I have no need for Christ other than his teachings, which do not conflict with my beliefs. Organized religion has always posed a problem to me. I feel I live my life in a way that Christ would agree with.

    And...jedi979 I understand where you are comming from, your religion asks that to try to lead and guide but, please save your energy for those without direction that could use your guidance.
  17. jedi979 Jedi Master

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    Aug 6, 2001
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    Is it that there isn't any evidence, or that you simply choose not to believe it?
  18. DARTHJOSEPH Jedi Master

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    May 11, 2005
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    jedi979 where's your proof that God does exist and other religions gods or goddesses don't. You are already trying to kill this thread with closed mindedness. Stop trying to preach. Please add to a constructive dialog or find a thread on christianity with people you can talk with.
  19. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Man Overboard!
    *throws lifeline*
    But which direction do you throw the line? ;)
  20. jedi979 Jedi Master

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    Aug 6, 2001
    star 2
    I apologize if I'm coming across as being "preachy". But if you mean by "closed mindedness" that I actually believe something is true and am willing to take a stand for it, then I guess I am. As far as being able to prove God exists: I can't prove He exists any more than you can prove He doesn't.
  21. DARTHJOSEPH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2005
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    NO ONE can prove their religion as true. We can beleive it is true but cannot prove it as FACT. If you can actually prove the existence of the Christian God right here, right now...you will have done something no one in over 2,000 years has been able to do. I cannot be done!
  22. jedi979 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 2
    Kind of reminds me of some song lyrics from a band I used to listen to:

    Thinking if I could see I would believe,
    then somebody said believe and you will see
  23. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    No need to play the victim here, mate. He's not listening to you. Teh question that would immediately come to my mind is "why not?" Perhaps you should ponder that, instead of doing the very thing I warned against, which is digging in your heels and trying to be "right."

    I also should've made it clear in my 1st post that I don't see this as the place to evangelize or prosletyze in the classic sense. Too quickly it devolves into:

    Poster A: I believe....
    Poster B: I don't.
    Poster A: Well you should.
    Poster B: But I don't.

    And so on, which stifles real discourse. Maybe a Mod edit is in order?
  24. jedi979 Jedi Master

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  25. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    No worries [face_coffee]

    I'll get back to my original thoughts shortly. I just didn't want the thread to get off on the wrong foot...