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PT Interesting Observation

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Pyrogenic, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    "The death toll is catastrophic. We must bow to their wishes. You must contact me."
    "It's a trick. Send no reply. Send no transmissions of any kind."
    "It sounds like bait to establish a connection trace."
    "What if it is true, and the people are dying?"
    "Either way, we're running out of time."

    Did they send a transmission?

    "Tatooine is sparsely populated. If the trace was correct, I will find them quickly, Master."
    "Move against the Jedi first. You will then have no difficulty in taking the queen to Naboo to sign the treaty."
    "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge."
    "You have been well-trained, my young apprentice. They will be no match for you."

    Did they send a transmission?

    "All slaves have a transmitter placed inside their bodies somewhere."
    "I've been working on a scanner to try and locate mine."
    "Any attempt to escape--"
    "And they blow you up! Boom!"

    Did they send a transmission?
     
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  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Nobody sent any transmission other than the TF and the Sith.
     
  3. heels1785

    heels1785 Skywalker Saga + JCC Manager / Finally Won A Draft star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2003
    Pyrogenic, I'm not following your point. Can you flesh this out a bit?
     
  4. 2K-D2

    2K-D2 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2016
    There may be an implication that they manage to "trace" them just by sending the message - no idea how technahlogy, they... used the sound in space thing. Who cares.

    It's implied mainly through the way one scene cuts to the next, that there's a connection, but it's not confirmed.


    No idea what the blow up chip has to do with anything lol...
    I'm sure there were loads of scanners and transmitters in the town.
     
  5. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    The (potential) implication is that Maul is tracing Anakin's transmitter because no one else sent any traceable transmissions. Anakin as part of the Sith scheme from the beginning, etc. which has been discussed before.
     
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  6. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    No, Maul was able to establish a trace because they received and opened the transmission that was sent. Anakin's discovery had nothing to do with the Sith.
     
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  7. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    I can see how that could work like a modern e-mail trojan or key-logger, but Pyro's interpretation is pretty poetic.

    Even Darth Maul's probes, when they come back to him, make a sound like "boy".

    And Jar Jar to the astromech droids in the back of Amidala's ship: "Hello, boyos."

    Hmm, further investigation, this requires.
     
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  8. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    The deleted scene even has the probe following Qui-Gon and Anakin. How would the probe know to look for Qui-Gon if he is in disguise?

    WAIT A MINUTE!

    Maul was tracking Anakin the whole time! The droids were in the cities, not the outskirts. The probe reported the location of Anakin, who Maul then almost mows down on the way to the ship. The probe didn't find the ship, it found ANAKIN.

    Why else would we have a random line about a slave transmitter immediately after wondering how Maul tracked their location?
     
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  9. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Saga/Music/Fun & Games Mod star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2014
    Because Qui-Gon's disguise was a poncho.....not going to fool a droid. And the droid is still following Qui Gon when Anakin isn't around (like when he goes to collect from Watto). Maul had no idea who Anakin was and even if he did he didn't know that he would be with Qui-Gon and Amidala so there is absolutely no reason they would be searching for Anakin.
     
  10. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    That's the whole issue I'm trying to sort out. This is a golden oldie. It is established that they need to reply if there is to be a correct trace on them. Obi-Wan told them not to, so they didn't. But then Maul somehow traced them? It doesn't make any sense. "If the trace was correct, I will find them quickly, Master." BUT HE COULD NOT HAVE TRACED THEM BECAUSE THEY SENT NO MESSAGE.

    It's such a weird, glitchy, cognitive dissonance plot hole thing based on what we know.

    Next scene: "All slaves have a transmitter placed inside their bodies somewhere." CONVENIENT.

    The probes never saw the Naboo ship, so how does Maul know where to go?
     
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  11. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Saga/Music/Fun & Games Mod star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2014
    The way I've always looked at it is they needed them to reply to get an exact location.....the only thing Sidious and Maul are able to establish is that they are somewhere on the planet of Tatooine, which must be able to be determined by them receiving the transmission (only thing that makes sense). And it doesn't explicitly say that they can't be traced without sending a message (it is sort of implied), in fact Obi-Wan saying they are running out of time could refer to the fact he's worried they can be found out. And the probe were following Qui-Gon around, we don't see the probe follow him out to the ship but it doesn't mean that one didn't or that it couldn't have figured out where he was going based on where he was heading when he left town.
     
  12. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 17, 2006
    Maybe he calculated their course based on their last known trajectory. Tatooine. So the probes are specifically looking for...something in the cities. What did they find that they reported to Maul?

    FAREWELL TO JIRA...
     
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  13. 2K-D2

    2K-D2 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2016
    Lol it sounded like "the boy's got to leave", I'm pretty sure that's an illusion though and not what they designed it as.

    ((An alien in the cantina says "mom look". And Greedo says something about oscars.))




    I've no idea how Anakin's transmitter did anything, weren't there thousands of random transmitters on the planet?

    But, at least I read a Pyrogenic post and understood it :D
     
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  14. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Pyro's being remarkably clear for once.

    Cherish it while it lasts. :p
     
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  15. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    Darth Jar Jar sent the trace.
     
  16. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    yeah , I would guess that 'receiving' or opening the transmission indicates what planet they're on or what area of that planet , something to do with the appropriate sattelite that they've used to pull in the transmission , then Sith send those probes to look around mos espa and they spy QGJ .

    don't think Anakin's slave transmitter had anything to do with it , he had it removed anyway before they left mos espa .
     
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  17. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    The Force might have helped Maul and Sidious figure out that Qui-Gon and Amidala were on Tatooine.
     
  18. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    And far-fetched.

    No it isn't. It's established that as a precaution, they shouldn't reply.

    They could have traced them by opening the transmission that was sent. At least partially, because all that Maul gets is the planet they are in, not their exact location.

    Yes, convenient to the masters who don't want their slaves to escape.

    The probe gave away Qui-Gon's location, and Maul finds him midway towards Mos Espa.
     
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  19. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 17, 2006
    IT SOUNDS LIKE BAIT TO ESTABLISH A CONNECTION TRACE. They need to send a message back or else there can be no trace, and since they sent no messages, Maul was tracing something else. And then the next scene tells us what it is. Anakin. A vergence in the Force. To converge is to come together from different directions so as eventually to meet. Darth Plagueis influences the midi-chlorians to create life, the prophecy tells of the chosen one who is conceived by the midi-chlorians, the Sith created Anakin, this argument again, etc. It's like the clone army. It's a thing set up by the Sith to be found by the Jedi and then exploited against them. That's a weird one. If Plagueis is Sidious' master and that story is true (canon?), then there must be an example of him having created life with his occult methods, right? What is a lie? "This sentence is false." Nothing can be proved or disproved. The phantom menace is all the stuff we don't see or hear that could potentially explain all of this without making assumptions. May I shift the focus?

    Why do the Sith want revenge and what is that revenge?
     
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  20. 2K-D2

    2K-D2 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2016
    Unspecified backstory :D

    They were "oppressing" people, got pwnt, and were angry? Something along those.



    Maul>-<Anakin is the big elephant in the room, as far as that movie goes (particular the Tattoine and Coruscant segments), however, if he was after him, or used him to locate whatever, it can't've been a technical trace.

    And he's talking about it like a technical one... so... no.
    He wouldn't be talking about psychic traces being "correct".



    As far as I'm concerned, these elphants in the room, and plot points being disconnected like that, is a sign of a flawed script, and would call for a rewrite.

    As far as you're concerned, probably not :D
     
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    Precisely. They need a connection trace which would cause Maul to land right in front of the ship and have him fight Obi-wan much sooner. Instead, Maul knows that they're on Tatooine, but not where. Hence he needed the probes to find him. Maul is aware of which Jedi were sent and what they look like.


    KI-ADI-MUNDI: "The Sith have been extinct for a millennium."

    MACE: "The oppression of the Sith will never return."

    SIDIOUS: "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy and we shall have peace."


    As to what that revenge is, it's the Clone Wars and what happens when Mace goes to kill Palpatine.


    MACE: "In the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic, you're under arrest, Chancellor."

    PALPATINE: "Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?"

    MACE: "The Senate will decide your fate."

    PALPATINE: "I am the Senate!"

    MACE: "Not yet."

    PALPATINE: "It's treason, then..."
     
  22. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    What?! No. Maul was tracing Amidala's ship. And yes, the message was sent to establish a connection. Since they received the message Maul was able to get the planet they are in. That's why he's fine with just getting the planet and is confident that he'll find them quickly since "Tatooine is sparsely populated."

    No, Anakin's existence was oblivious to everyone. Specially the Sith. And how the heck does an holographic message establishes a Force sensitive connection? Non sequitur.

    What? No. The prophecy has nothing to do with the Sith. Plagueis' story of midi-chlorian manipulation was a way to lure Anakin since he was searching for a way to keep someone from dying.

    Because they once controlled the galaxy and were finished off by the Jedi.
     
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  23. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    What?! No. Maul was tracing Amidala's ship. And yes, the message was sent to establish a connection. Since they received the message Maul was able to get the planet they are in. That's why he's fine with just getting the planet and is confident that he'll find them quickly since "Tatooine is sparsely populated."

    None of that speculation is based on anything in the movie. The only way for there to be a trace explicitly stated in the movie is for the Naboo ship to send a message BACK.

    No, Anakin's existence was oblivious to everyone. Specially the Sith. And how the heck does an holographic message establishes a Force sensitive connection? Non sequitur.

    The real non sequitor is putting words in my mouth that it "establishes a Force sensitive connection." I'm talking about a mechanical slave transmitter.

    What? No. The prophecy has nothing to do with the Sith. Plagueis' story of midi-chlorian manipulation was a way to lure Anakin since he was searching for a way to keep someone from dying.

    And it is so very conveniently the same situation as the prophecy that it cannot dismissed so easily. Just like how Anakin's transmitter is mentioned, immediately fixing a plot hole about a missing transmission.

    The Wall Street Journal: "Once they've detoured to the barren planet Tatooine, Queen Amidala and the rest of our heroes are careful to avoid radio transmissions that might help evil Darth Maul track them down. The villain finds them anyway, citing only an unexplained "trace." Did Maul sense them through the Force? If so, why does he launch six (sic) probe droids when he gets to Tatooine?"

    Or maybe the Sith always did have something to do with Anakin...

    *Cues mysterious Sith music when Qui-Gon and Shmi look at each other.*

    "I'm not sure."
     
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  24. 2K-D2

    2K-D2 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2016
    As I said - elephant in the room.


    If Anakin had anything to do with this, it had nothing to do with his chip transmitter, that was some throwaway exposition with no mysterious music.


    PS: If you wanna speculate about transmissions/Sith/chosenones, based on tonal stuff from the movie, it'd be more sensible to go for the midichlorian transmission (though it happened after the "trace", so nothing to do with that).

    Maul picked it up so he'd know what side of the planet to land on / magic-containing transmission picked up sith presence.

    Doesn't really make sense, but there's at least some motivation to dig around in that area.
     
  25. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    The Phantom Menace.
    The Ghost Threat.
    The Trace Possibility.
     
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