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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Interesting Observation

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Pyrogenic, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. 2K-D2

    2K-D2 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2016
    the possible menacing phantom ghost in the threatening trace
     
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  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Yes, it is based on everything the movie give us.

    Maul was able to locate the planet they are in after they opened the message he sent them. He never got a precise location (which would probably require a reply, hence why Obi-Wan advises not to), yet he's confident that it won't take much time to find them, considering Tatooine's sparse population.

    No, it isn't. That's never stated in the movie. All that is said is that the message could be bait to establish a connection trace. Which it is and it did.

    Obi-Wan also said to not reply or send any message back, which would probably give Maul their exact location.

    That every slave has. Why are you implying such a far fetched connection to Anakin, of all slaves?

    You could speculate wether Anakin was created by Plagueis or not. That has nothing to do with the fact that Sidious, Maul and everyone else were oblivious to Anakin's existence.

    It's mentioned to explain why he can't simply run away. And what plot hole?
     
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  3. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    You might be right but as is often the case, GL presents the situation quite poorly.

    This dialogue:

    Obi-Wan: "It's a trick. Send no reply. Send no transmissions of any kind."
    ..."It sounds like bait to establish a connection trace."
    Maul: "Tatooine is sparsely populated. If the trace was correct, I will find them quickly, Master."

    Is inconsistent. Yes you can invent your own in-universe technical explanations but it was badly written.
     
  4. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    No, it wasn't. The message was sent and received. It was bait and it did establish a connection trace. Obi-Wan was right and Maul was able to get their partial location.

    To reply back would only help them pinpoint their exact location, instead of just the planet they are in.
     
  5. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    No, bait means something tempting is presented in the hope that the target will take that bait. In this case it was a call for help from Bibble. A message about people dying, no doubt sent under duress. Obi-Wan prevented the Naboo crew from taking that bait, ie replying to the message.

    Obi-Wan then explained: "It sounds like bait to establish a connection trace."

    This is a very simple & clear implication. Taking the bait (replying to the msg) is required to establish a trace. If you don't take the bait the trace is not established. Yet a scene or two later Maul says "If the trace was correct, I will find them quickly"! :confused:
    That's just your own theory. In no way is that made clear in the movie. What seems to happen is that the stop on Tatooine was completely unplanned. Therefore it's unlikely that the TF back on Naboo would know where they are. Tatooine is in the same region of the galaxy so when they sent out a distress call (probably on a unique Naboo frequency) Panaka etc were able to receive it. If they'd replied they would've fallen into the trap & revealed their location. That's what Obi-Wan's dialogue implies. It doesn't seem to make sense that the TF & Maul could establish the trace. There are explanations I suppose. Pity the movie didn't provide one.

    Like I said, Lucas wrote this poorly so we're left to fill in the gaps in logic.
     
  6. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    I don't think it was written poorly, but that is was left totally unexplained for a reason. Imagine writing that scene and not noticing the gap in logic. It's another example of the phantom menace having a phantom menace.
     
  7. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    I might believe that this was a deliberate omission pointing to some complex plotting...if it wasn't for the fact that the PT is riddled with similar examples of careless writing.
     
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  8. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    I think it can be fun filling in plot holes...
    ...with proton torpedoes! :deathstar:

    But that's why I brought up Anakin's transmitter. It's so conveniently mentioned immediately after this (potential?) plot hole that I can't ignore it!

    PLUS:

    Thesaurus!

    phantom = ghost = trace
    menace = threat = possibility

    Menace of the Phantom
    Possibility of the Trace
     
  9. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Lol interesting.
     
  10. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Pretty far-fetched to say it was an intergalactic transmitter. That the TF or the Sith could detect Anakin's implant from across the galaxy.
     
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  11. 2K-D2

    2K-D2 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 4, 2016

    More of a gap than inconsistency - while the word "trace" being used repeatedly, implies an inconsistency (because it should be referring to the same thing), it's not clear what he means, and whether he hadn't managed to "trace" the receiver without a reply.

    They thought they were safe not replying, but he already found them by virtue of them receiving it etc.
     
  12. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Like I said, poorly written & explained in the movie. There's an apparent inconsistency.
     
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  13. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    It's like some sort of...phantom menace!
     
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  14. Darth Downunder

    Darth Downunder Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2001
    He's called George.
     
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  15. 2K-D2

    2K-D2 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Aug 4, 2016
    Pretty much that, yea.
     
  16. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Listen, I had to come back to this thread.

    And don't take any of this post too seriously. It's Star Wars. And Star Wars equals nerdy fun.

    With that disclaimer out of the way...




    I'm sorry, but that might be the funniest line on TFN.



    Bibble, Babble, Sifo-Dyas, Sifo-Babble, Sci-Fi Bibble, Psy-Faux Babble.


    There's something fishy going on in the prequels -- and we've gotta find out what!



    Anyway, some more general thoughts on this whole thing:

    1) It surprises me (if but a little) that people can't think a little more abstractly. Star Wars isn't made of concrete.

    2) Pyro came out with a blinder of an opening post. Look how he re-arranged the movie and condensed the whole saga into a beguiling triad of verses totalling thirteen consecutive lines of dialogue. Cosmic.

    3) There are at least two meanings, or endless sets of complementary near-opposites ("She's carrying twins"), to everything in the series ("This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them"). Star Wars isn't necessarily a puzzle with a single solution, but it's fun to notice this duality in everything.

    4) Let me flesh out that last point with an example: "Then our worst fears have been realized." Now, when Mace says that in ROTS, is he talking about the Jedi's fears, or simply his own? Similarly, are those "fears" he mentions, the fears of Palpatine being a Sith Lord, or simply of Anakin discovering this for himself? Duality leads to uncertainty, and uncertainty leads, to paraphrase Lucas, to "a complex cosmic equation".

    5) We may be overcomplicating this, but that's the point. Alternately (duality again), we may be undercomplicating it. People seem to assume everything in Star Wars is hyper-normal (the hyper-normalization of Star Wars turning the series into a bland fetish object apt for consumerism). But everything in Star Wars is anti-normal and infused with whimsy and peculiarity. Every installment is an "episode" (literally: parenthetic narrative, coming in besides), every event "striking from a hidden base" (and assailed/picked at with "baseless accusations"), every pixel a midi-chlorian (gateway) to meaning that manifests as something strange when agglutinated with other pixels (other gateways).

    6) Metaphor gets a bad rap, but metaphor is half of the Force (midi-Force). It is a way to engage more deeply with the "entangled bank" of Star Wars that lies right in front of you. There are constant rhymes and resonances to note and fuse together; or rub together like two sticks (attack of the clones = attachment/similitude/stickiness of the sticks) to create fire. Imagine if we stopped at sticks. Admired them, held them, snapped them, perhaps, used them to poke at things, maybe even fastened them together; but never thought to use them to create an altered state of matter; never dared to advance and unlock a hidden dance. Pyro took his name from mine. He is trying to set fire to the saga; bring entirely new meanings forth; set our dull universe alight. He is looking for a REAL phantom menace: "the panache moment".


    7) Here is a very plain (but still kinda neat) metaphor from the last two lines Pyro isolated in his opening post:

    "Any attempt to escape--"
    "And they blow you up! Boom!"

    Where have you encountered similar dialogue in TPM (remember: everything rhymes)?

    "If they find us, they will crush us, grind us into tiny pieces, and blast us into oblivion."

    Now, Obi-Wan isn't necessarily talking of being "blasted" into a rival entertainment franchise/computer game series, but there is a clear link established there, nonetheless, between "escaping" and being "found". In both cases, if you attempt to escape or are found, you're allegedly blasted/blown up. "Close the blast doors." Sealing yourself off is maybe the best chance of not being discovered. Sealing the blast doors might be analogous with pretending you have the saga licked; of attempting to lock meanings down by stopping discourse and bringing a halt to imaginative inquiry. But the meanings sort of "burn through" anyway ("They are still coming through!"), so, in the longer term, this tactic is probably useless. Death Anakin -- Darth Vader -- will still come and kill you. So forget about isolation. "Wesa no care-n about da Naboo". Screw isolation, screw wisdom when it's just another object to separate yourself from. We should willingly strive to blow these characters and ideas up and take everything to a new ekstasis -- a new oblivion.

    Star Wars is a metaphor machine. And the thing with machines is, they're useful, but clunky. Machines have their limits. Machines must be destroyed. We all need to get past the thing that's not actually the thing. Will we ever find the thing; or the actual thing? Probably not. But the journey is the fun part.
     
  17. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Your back? That fact make this thread already interesting. :p
     
  18. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    I circle a lot of threads and then do nothing.

    It's so pure.

    But seriously, thanks.

    Sometimes, I get possessed by the "song" of Star Wars (in truth: I always am), and have to say something.

    It'd be mean not to. No, really, I have to get certain things out at certain times. Even if it's just icky, icky goo. [face_whistling]
     
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  19. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    I always love Pyrogenic threads. They get me thinking and cause my brain to melt, usually at the same time.
     
  20. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Anakin can't leave home or he'll get blown up. Jar Jar can't go back home or he'll have terrible things done to him.
     
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  21. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    You mean.........."Tare-a-bul tings!"
     
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  22. BattleDroid1138

    BattleDroid1138 Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2000
    After seeing PM and before the rest of the PT came out I figured that explosive transmitter was the reason Obi-Wan hid Luke on Tatooine. If Anakin ever returned to that planet they'd blow him up. BOOM!
     
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  23. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    It is possibly notable that he never touches the surface of Tatooine again after his little adventure in Episode II.
     
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  24. Kuro

    Kuro Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Something else I noticed. Both Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker have eyes, noses and hair. Hmmm…

    Fascinating!
     
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  25. SYNCHRONIC

    SYNCHRONIC Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Aug 3, 2016
    Are Pyrogenic and Cryogenic supposed to be different persons? As their writing style, names, and Cryogenic's praise of Pryrogenic make it pretty clear that they are the same user.

    Anyway, it is very possible that yes, someone onboard the ship did send a secret transmission back, or as people have said, that simply receiving the message was enough to track it in a vague way..

    Also trace just means to "follow", so there could have been a tracking device on the ship (the trade federation could easily have attached one to the ship during the time since their occupation, in anticipation that something like the scenario could happen, or perhaps even had been expected to happen, in-order for further events forseen by Sidious to unfold, leading to Amidala being able to make the vote of no confidence, leading to Palpatine's pivotal moment of rising to chancellor and eventually Emperor).