CT Internal conflict in Palpatine?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Condition2SQ, Feb 11, 2013.

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  1. Condition2SQ Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    In Episode VI, I sensed in Emperor Palpatine an internal conflict. I felt there was still good in him, and with the help of maybe Luke, he could be turned from the dark side.

    Evidence.

    1. He had a warm laugh. When he first arrived at the Death Star, his laughter resonated in the hangar. He also laughed when Luke tried to slice his face off with a lightsaber.

    2. When he said to Luke, "There is no escape, my young apprentice; the alliance will die". He had such a sad look on his face when he said that. His good side was coming through in that scene.

    Thoughts?
  2. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    1. That was a mocking laugh.

    2. That was a mocking tone.

    Sorry, but Palpatine was irredeemably evil.
  3. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    no one is irredeemable. They could have captured him and given him a mind wipe. Worked for a different Sith Lord...
  4. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    That's not redemption, it's reprogramming. And It took several Jedi Masters to wipe Revan's mind, the Alliance didn't one.
  5. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    Palpatine in the film is meant to be an archetype, the embodiment of evil. There is nothing there to redeem
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  6. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    Redeemed, reprogramming. Semantics. I'm sure they could wipe someone's mind with tech, I don't think the force is entirely necessary. That's speculation though, and this is a universe of science fantasy, not necessarily science fiction.
  7. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    No, redemption is voluntary. There's a big difference.
    anakinfansince1983 and ILNP like this.
  8. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    If your actually being serious this is hilarious. He had a sad look on his face!? He was being a sarcastic lobstermonster! really make a good parody of that in the Family Guy movie.

    He didn't have a warm laugh he had an evil cackle. lmaaooo.

    And what do you mean there was STILL good in him. He has been evil throughout the saga!
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Feb 24, 2013
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  9. Jabba_The_Hutt_123 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2003
    star 3
    Am I the only one getting deja vu.. a lot on these boards
  10. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Palps had some internal conflict in TESB when he talked to Vader. First he wanted Luke killed, but then Vader manipulated him to agree with trying to turn Luke. Apparently, in this conflict, greed and fear battled and greed won out (what a surprise...).
    TrandoJedi likes this.
  11. Adrian the Cool Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    Galactic Emperor Cosinga Palpatine II. is the archetype of pure evil, there is nothing good left in his irredeemable heart. He must have been evil from birth. The only fictional character more evil than Palpatine is Imperial Grand Queen Die Fette I. the Evil of Diefetteland to Nehmen, from a science fantasy fiction I'm working on.
    Last edited by Adrian the Cool, Feb 13, 2013
  12. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    I remember reading Oliver Twist in university and wrote a paper describing how Dickens was praising the results of England's enclosure policy, championing the wonders of early industrialization and extolling the benefits of child labor. It was just my point of view....everyone is right these days you know...postmodern subjectivity and all....
  13. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    However, some are more right than others.
    darthbarracuda likes this.
  14. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    There is no redemption for Palpatine,. He was always a bad egg.
  15. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    Ya, like you thinking you somehow "one upped" me by implying Jedi never kidnapped children (in the EU) and Darth Plagueis, according to you, didn't figure out how to "become one with the force" as a means of immortality (which he wasn't interested in). There's a difference between your lack of reading comprehension and the sort of post modern subjectivism we see here in the OP. Have I told you I don't like you yet? I think I also requested, about five times, that you stop quoting me. You're going to eventually goad me into harassing you in the same fashion you're harassing me which won't be fun for anyone.
    Last edited by Darth kRud, Feb 14, 2013
  16. TrandoJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2011
    star 4
    And thats the only internal conflict I can picture in Palpatine. Not sadness or regrets.
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Implying? That's not what the word implying means - I stated that position outright. Don't forget, when asked to prove your case you helpfully came up with an example of a father voluntarily handing his son over to the Jedi. No kidnapping involved. Then again, I hear that everyone is right these days, so I guess that means if someone says the Jedi kidnapped children, they must be right.

    If you're using "one with the Force" to refer to Force ghosting, then no, Darth Plagueis did not learn how to Force ghost. This is a pretty basic concept in the saga. Sith don't ghost as the Jedi do. In the films they don't ghost at all. Don't think of it as "according to me"; it's according to the ROTS novelization, if not the visual language of the films. It's not some crazy theory I dreamed up in the laboratory.

    Ad hominem noise. I'm not the one drawing false conclusions from reasonably clear source material.
  18. Ambervikings91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    i think your looking too much into it, this guy is about as bad as it gets
  19. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    Little known fact: There's a deleted scene in ROTJ when Palpy takes a shuttle down to the Endor moon and works a shift in disguise at an Ewok orphanage helping them learn to count! It was cut because Lucas thought it disrupted the flow of the narrative.
  20. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    I was being sarcastic. It clearly wasn't semantics.
    redeem. reprogram. The words have very different meanings.

    FWIW Revan's 'redemption' wasn't voluntary
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Feb 15, 2013
  21. Yunners Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2006
    star 2
    That was the least sarcastic use of sarcasm I've ever witnessed. But whatever..

    Hmm, terribly sorry, I appear to be out of troll feed.
    Last edited by Yunners, Feb 15, 2013
  22. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    Read a little bit more, you'll come across alot of examples of sarcasm.
    calling redemption and reprogamming semantics is sarcasm. It wasn't sarcasm to state that the could have wiped his mind.
  23. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Odd that there's so much complaints for there being too much goodness in Anakin when he's a kid, instead of being portrayed as some kind of "Omen"-style bad seed from birth, like Voldemort. Equally odd that there's such calls for some kind of inner conflict or possibility of goodness in Palpatine, who if I'm not mistaken has been given that kind of backstory in the EU, at least.

    If there is "internal conflict", I think it rests on the question of whteher or not Palpatine's in it for pure greed and lust for power, or if he genuinely believes in his cause as the best course of action for the Galaxy. He'd be wrong, no doubt, but there's something more unsettling to the idea that he's a true believer in Sith philosophy, that the one should rule over all instead of the chaotic mob rule of democracy. That's something that can get under your skin, and make you question the validity of your own freedom, and thereby giving the fight to protect it a sense of ideological momentum. McDiarmid's performance in ROTS really seals the deal there, and allows him to portray a more nuanced kind of evil.
  24. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    Ian McDiarmid easily delivered the best performance in the PT, IMO.
    DarthRelaxus likes this.
  25. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    McDiarmid gets to really do both sides of the coin in "Sith" and, hell, it's the one movie in the entire saga where he has the most screen time. He gets to play the subtly tempting one half and then finally go absolutely deliciously over-the-top evil like he was in "Jedi". I'd actually go as far to say as that movie has his best performance in all of the flicks. At least he has the most to do.
    DarthRelaxus likes this.
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