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CT Internal conflict in Palpatine?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Condition2SQ, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. Skelter

    Skelter Jedi Padawan star 1

    Oct 31, 2012
    I could have done without Ian's funny faces against Mace, but other than that, I agree.
  2. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Force Ghost star 8

    Nov 20, 2012
    He was evil right from the get-go.
  3. EHT

    EHT New Films Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 13, 2007
    Exactly. "There is no conflict."
    rumsmuggler, Yunners and lbr789 like this.
  4. OnesionRa

    OnesionRa Jedi Youngling

    Sep 2, 2012
    The minds in this place....brilliant I say!!
  5. Zane the Reaper

    Zane the Reaper Jedi Knight star 1

    Nov 5, 2012

    I agree. Sociopaths' gonna sociopath.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  6. Joe

    Joe Jedi Master star 6

    Dec 25, 2012
    Palpatine literally is an evil emperor in a chair ordering the mass genocide of teddy bears. There is no redemption for that.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.

    JEDI-RISING Force Ghost star 6

    Apr 15, 2005
    no conflict in Sidious. he's totally evil.

    SHAD0W-JEDI Jedi Master star 3

    May 20, 2002
    I have got to believe the original post is a bit of good-natured, wink-laden trolling... a warm laugh? Too, too funny!
    Souderwan likes this.
  9. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 12, 2012
    See, the thing is, at least from my point of view, is that in the confrontation with Mace we get to see Sidious for truly what he is. And he's not human. He's been corrupted so much by the Dark Side that he's basically a monster. Kind of like Gollum if he had Force powers and a lightsaber and was ruling the universe. He's unleashing his inner self and he's not acting like a person would be, he's hissing and snarling like a cornered beast. But he's also LOVING every second of it. Sidious is really that damn evil.

    Another awesome McDirmid moment in Sith: check out his reaction shot when Yoda tosses the senate chamber platform at him. It's literally two seconds, a quick pan/zoom in, and Sidious is smiling, wiping his mouth, and he stops himself and tilts his head sideways, smile still frozen on his face, kind of like, "Huh, that little green guy just Force threw something large right at my head." Makes me laugh every time, really great. The camera movement kinda sells it for me.

    DARTHSHAME Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 19, 2003
    Never saw it that way. [face_laugh]
  11. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 25, 2008

    Anyone can be redeemable . . . if they took the opportunity to set upon that road. Palpatine simply did not bother. I suspect that he did not consider himself as evil.

    Being corrupted is human. Being monstrous is also human. Why do humans continue to believe that their inherent nature is basically good, when it isn't? Why is it when an individual or fictional character commits monstrous acts, they are labeled as "inhuman"?
  12. Darth Cornish

    Darth Cornish Jedi Master star 1

    Nov 7, 2000
    He's not the evil emperor, he's a very naughty boy.
    Darth Venator and StarWarsVerses like this.
  13. Lord Chazza

    Lord Chazza Jedi Master star 4

    Jan 4, 2013
  14. Klingon Padawan

    Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling star 1

    Mar 5, 2013
    Palpatine was irredeemable, end of story. Ian McDiarmid, the actor, said that himself. Here's the full quote, from a TFN article.

    The latest official site Homing Beacon newsletter has some great new info on the character of Palpatine in ROTS. Here's a clip to encourage you to subscribe:

    "He has a black irredeemable heart," McDiarmid says of Palpatine.
    "There's nothing that can be said about him that's good. When we first
    saw Vader in the original trilogy we thought he was the heart of
    darkness, and nobody could be darker. But now we understand what
    happened to him. And one of the exciting things about seeing this movie
    is that you can follow Vader through Anakin's journey every step of the
    way even if you don't agree with the choices he's making. In partm his
    decisions stem from his traumatic childhood, and his impatient lust for
    power. And it's that which my character takes and then uses again him."

    "When you're playing a character of solid blackness, that in itself is
    very interesting, in the sense that you have no other motivation other
    than the accumulation of power," McDiarmid continues. "It's not so much
    about not having a moral center, it's just that the only thing that
    mattered is increasing power."

    Yet even though Palpatine represents a truly evil character, McDiarmid
    still attempted to seek out his human side, however faint it may
    have been.
  15. Darth Cornish

    Darth Cornish Jedi Master star 1

    Nov 7, 2000
    From Life of Brian - 'He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy'.
    One of the funniest films ever, check it out.
  16. StarWarsVerses

    StarWarsVerses Jedi Knight star 1

    Feb 14, 2013
    He's not such a bad guy. A little vindictive, but that's understandable. Freddie did break his VHS player, after all.

  17. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    May 21, 2008
    That kinda ruins the point of ROTJ which was that everyone can be redeemed (and redeem himself). Palps is no worse than Vader.
  18. Orochi Oni

    Orochi Oni Jedi Knight star 2

    Mar 8, 2013
    The Emperor is the most evil son-of-a-bitch in the Galaxy far, far away. The only conflict he has is whether to kick a puppy or a kitten in the morning.*


    He kicks both.
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Mar 4, 2011
    The only time Palpatine was ever a sad character is in the early part of the Plagueis novel when he was an idealistic college student, and even then it didn't last very long.
    Klingon Padawan likes this.
  20. ObiAlKenobi

    ObiAlKenobi Jedi Knight star 3

    Mar 10, 2012
    Nope. There was no possible redemption for the Emperor. He was evil and loved it. For the sake of being evil and powerful. The only conflict he had was what to do with the rebels and who would be Vader's successor. That's what makes his character so great.
    Klingon Padawan likes this.
  21. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    May 21, 2008
    Then you obviously missed the message the finale of ROTJ was meant to convey. In ANH Vader was "irredeemably" evil as well, choking people to death, torturing a girl and standing by while a planet is destroyed. It's obvious he is enjoying being evil. Obi-Wan even said "he is more machine than man now, twisted and evil.". The end of ROTJ was supposed to show the error of this train of thought.

    When someone as ANH Vader can be redeemed, then there must be at least a remote chance to redeem Palpatine as well. I'm not saying it is easy at all (quite the opposite) but it is possible in the SW-universe.

    Note also how Luke throws away his saber in ROTJ. He doesn't want to fight, he rejects the inherent violence in fighting (the novelization makes that pretty clear) because he understands that he doesn't hate the followers of the dark side but the dark side itself. And the dark side itself can't be vanquished by violence, only by compassion. This line of thought is reflected by Yodas words: "A jedi uses the force for defense, never for aggression" (or similar). That is, why, imo, ROTJ has one of the greatest movie endings ever. Period. It is not classical "kill the baddie" but far more.
  22. Klingon Padawan

    Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling star 1

    Mar 5, 2013
    Vader could be redeemed because he still had good in him. He had guilt. He turned to the darkside out of desperation and misguided dreams to make the galaxy a better place. As early as ROTS, Anakin shed a tear on Mustafar. Quoted from the Rise and Fall of Darth Vader.

    "After killing all the Separatist leaders, Palpatine's new apprentice had stepped outside the mountain fortress on Mustafar to gaze at the blazing lava rivers below. He would not mourn for the lives he had taken. But for the loss of his former self, the boy who had dreamed of becoming a Jedi, he was unable to hold back the tears that streamed down his cheeks. Anakin Skywalker was gone. Or was he? After all, Padme had fallen in love with Anakin, not Darth Vader."

    He had a repressed desire to be good again, and Luke helped him awaken that good. Palpatine, on the other hand, represents pure evil and the devil. Even George Lucas himself said that.
  23. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Force Ghost star 6

    May 21, 2008
    Almost any villain has a sob story or at least a reason for turning bad. How do you know Palpatine wasn't constantly beaten by his dad? You don't. The only reason why people get so apologist when it comes to Vader is because we know the whole story. Personally it annoys me. It is an insult to what Lord Vader is to imply he was made a Sith exclusively by "outside forces". He chose darkness. He is a bad man. A through and through villain.

    In ANH and even in TESB, Vader was as nasty as it gets. Not even a hint of good aside from some possessiveness. If someone like him can be redeemed, has "enough" good in him to turn to the light, then in theory it should be possible to turn Palpatine as well.

    Yea, and maybe Palpatine cried too in his chamber.

    You underestimate how it is in the empire. For Vader, treachery is a natural part of life. Nobody can trust anybody. If you ever show the slightest weakness, a knife is stuck into your back and you are killed mercilessly. Vader is a shark in a pool of sharks.
  24. Klingon Padawan

    Klingon Padawan Jedi Youngling star 1

    Mar 5, 2013
    I checked it out on Wookipedia, and it seems like Palpatine's negative relationship with his family was related to his turn to the darkside.
  25. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 12, 2012
    Nah, I mean that from my point of view, the Dark Side has corrupted Palpatine so much that it actually changes his biology and becomes a different, twisted monstorus life form. Like the way he talks when he knights Anakin, his physical appearance, movement, etc. Like Gollum. Guy was a Hobbit then he, y'know, wasn't. You could say that Palpy / Gollum are the same species they always were when the started out but I take it as they are so destroyed by darkness is alters them physically into a different species.