Is A New Hope.......Meh?

"Thank you for that insightful comment. Do you have anything to add to the discussion?"

I'm sorry, and I assure you, I mean no disrespect, but why on earth would you even ask such a question at a place such as this?
What is the point?

I mean, would you stroll into Comicon and ask if everyone thought comics were meh? You pretty much already know the answer if you have any common sense, which I know you do having read many of your posts. We're all here because we share that one common interest, which is Star Wars, and I guess I just always assumed that, unless someone was really pathetic and had absolutely no other options for social outlet, they would be here because of that love for Star Wars.

I can understand taking certain aspects and applying your question to them, but the whole thing... I just don't quite get it.

But that's cool...Enjoy.

D_M_S_L

 

[broken record]every film has a critique thread and they all ask a 'negative' initial question[/br]

 

I have to respect the topic starters courage for starting this topic. It might be a taboo, but I think its a healthy discussion and valid issue.

I think the main reasons Episode 4 is beginning to look "meh" to some is due to time itself. By ESB, I notice a clearer direction for the franchise, as if Lucas knew where he was in the larger 6 part story. Theres also the issue of trends and time dating different aspects of the film.

However I find the film to be good, but not my favorite. The first half is flawless, however once they leave tatooine and they have to use a lot of visual and special fx, the age begins to become apparent imo. I do feel definitely that its the most deserving of the Special Edition changes, as Ive heard Lucas spent the most SE budget on it.

I dont down the film for lack of saber action or such, I think what gives the other films a slight edge imo are the budgets and the clearer vision. Its my belief that one cannot tell a story of this setting and scope without flawless visuals, or at least the best out there possible. So Im a proud owner of the second Special Edition Original Trilogy box set released in 2004.

Edited for clarity, because I know this is a contentious issue.

 

In terms of Special Effects, yes A New Hope has become a bit Meh. But for a representation of what Star Wars stands for, A New Hope is it, and can not be challenged. Star Wars represents the dreams of all boys (and girls) who look up into the stars and think about adventure. At it's heart, star wars is about that dream, not so much about the galactic Good vs Evil, or "restoring balance to the force" stuff. This all came later. What made Star Wars (now called A New Hope) great, great for all time, is the simple story about adventure, about a boys adventure to the stars. The greatness about A New Hope is it's simplicity. In this age of over board special effects, and explosions over story line, we have lost the appreciation of the simple story. I think this is why many younger Star Wars fans do not appreciate ANH as they should. A Sci-Fi movie today is all about Special Effects, with the actual story line taking a back seat to the On-Set Starbucks coffee supplier.

 

For me, that's actually Star Trek, but I won't go any further in that so I can avoid being burned for heresy.

 

I used to think it was just meh, but the more I watch it, the more I like it. Having grown up in the 90s with the PT, it used to be hard looking back to ANH seeing the lack of visuals, etc. However, as I've grown older, I've come to appreciate more, or rather re-appreciate ANH and how great a film it really is.

 

You should check out my now locked thread: Is the classic trilogy dragging down the overall quality of the saga?

Apparently because the points I brought up about the classic trilogy (while perfectly valid) didn't cause me to really think think the classic trilogy was dragging down the overall quality of the saga (I was making a point as to how you could make pretty much the same kinds of complaints towards the classic trilogy as a lot of people were doing to the prequels, and as such, acting like the prequels were dragging down the overall quality of the saga was equally without merit), that I was actually "baiting".

I still contest that harsh and dismissive judgment, but what are you going to do?

 

Too late, you will be burned at the stake, and not even the Boog can save you! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Seriously though..ANH is still 'meh' to me. Maybe I'll see it differently through a child's eyes
though no?

 

..you fast forward through SW...? DESTROY THE BLASPEMING NON-BELIEVER!! (j/k)

 

I'm not trying to reverse their choice, I don't really care.

The thread was fun and entertaining enough while it lasted.

 

I see what you were trying to say there, but I dont think bias against the prequels will ever cease completely. The first hint would be Flash Gordon as an inspiration for all of these films. That means all flaws that has been presented in the OT and PT are EXPECTED. Older fans signed on the dotted line for Star Wars fandom in 77, the contract doesnt read any different today . Technology has just been computerized now, and those fans are older and more observant, while the OT is immune to this due to nostalgia.

The good news is the new generation, the PT fans, are balancing out these bias fans with reverse bias, giving some of the OT the same lashing the PT has been given lol.

Irony.

 

There's an oft-repeated perception that the old-time fans are unable to distinguish a brilliantly-crafted and emotion-provoking film from a nostalgic romp through cheesy sci-fi cliches and bad dialogue. I utterly reject that belief.

For one, many oldtime fans revile ROTJ, or at least hold it in lesser regard than 'ANH' and ESB. Why doesn't this nostalgic effect work on the last movie? And secondly, in my personal experience there are a number of films I loved when I was a kid -- released around the same time as the OT films -- which on recent viewings have revealed themselves to be cheesy cliche-ridden romps. (I'll be happy to provide a list of these if anyone asks, but they include The Sword and the Sorcerer, 1982, and Ladyhawke, 1985.)

Why I, an old-time fan, should be able to perceive the many flaws of those once-cherished films, while continuing to view 'ANH' and ESB through halcyon-colored glasses (when, the argument goes, they are just as cheesy and poorly-written as the PT films), is a mystery to me.

 

I think ROTJ suffers from the same problems of the prequels.

1) It's about Darth Vader's human side more than ANH and ESB were.

2) We all had grown older by then since ANH.

3) It used more effects than ANH and ESB combined, which lends more weight to the "Lucas cares more about effects than good writing/directing" perception.

The other thing that ROTJ suffered was Lucas' fatigue. By the time he finished ROTJ, he was so burnt that he declared he wouldn't make any more films in the series. As a result, he settled more than he perfected some of the individual elements.

 

1) I consider the Vader storyline to be one of RotJ's major strengths, as do most people I know.

2) I saw RotJ several years (and several times) before I saw SW or ESB. I have a great nostalgia for it, but I still consider it a weaker (less-well-made) film than SW or ESB.

3) The effects in RotJ are, on the whole, beautifully done and a delight to watch. And I think you'll find that the only major (non-"models>CGI") complaints regarding the whopping THREE space battles/chases in the PT are with regard to silly, unfunny gags like the barrel roll line and the buzz droids.


From what I've seen the ACTUAL major complaints most people have regarding RotJ are:

1) The disjointed, too-long first Act w/ Jabba & co. Whereas the first two movies set up an immediate back-and-forth between the Rebels and the Empire, and kept the momentum of the overall story by occasionally checking in with the bad guys' side of things, In RotJ we get "Building another Death Star, and, oh, the Emperor's coming," a looong, almost mini-movie, sequence that has zilch to do with the actual war going on (you know, what with the supertitle being 'Star Wars'), and then finally we cut to the Emperor arriving (which we knew was happening) in a slightly-fancier almost shot-for-shot remake of Vader's arrival scene from the beginning of the movie. It's practically the film's halfway mark before we see anyone from the Empire do anything besides walk around and talk about how everything's going OK.

Other than freeing Han up for the rest of the movie, the Tatooine portion of the film has no bearing on the rest of the movie, and the 'war with the Empire'/'defeat the Dark Side' storylines from the rest of the film have no bearing on the Tatooine section.

2) The Ewoks. "These movies are for children" is the classic argument in this case, and is also used to explain Jar-Jar's idiocy, er, 'antics'. But I challenge anyone to find me the parts of SW and ESB that seem to be designed exclusively for children the way the Ewoks' teddy-bear cuteness is. I actually consider this a weaker argument than the others, because with the Ewoks their cuteness is rather incidental. Whether they look like teddy bears or frogs, the Ewoks are still violent, cannibalistic stone-age tree-dwellers.

No one in RotJ 'oohs' or 'ahhs' at the Ewoks' cuteness. Jar-Jar's idiocy, on the other hand, is clearly acknowledged by everyone else in the movie. None of them laugh at his antics, and they only rationalize keeping him around because he has a role to play (being a dishonored outcast, of COURSE Jar-Jar was told the secret location of the Gungans' above-ground emergency hiding place).

3) The lazy writing in every part of the story not involving Vader's redemption.
-Another, bigger Death Star (which seems even more silly since the prequels revealed it took a whole generation to build the first one).
-Luke and Leia are actually brother and sister (in order to resolve the love triangle, a solution which requires the viewer to ignore the lustful encounters that MADE it a love triangle).
-Han Solo, who everyone fought so hard to rescue (abandoning the ongoing civil war to do so), doesn't really DO anything in the whole movie. Instead, LANDO flies the Millennium Falcon in the final, epic space battle.

 

Basically, it felt ALOT slower than the other movies; not that that would stop any Star Wars fans...

 

Star Wars (ANH) is my favorite of the saga. Return Of The Jedi is my
least favorite because of those little, talking,intelligent teddy bears.

Reminded me of a muppet movie.

Lame,lame,lame those Ewoks.

Uncle George should've stuck with his original idea of having
a battle with Wookiees, instead of Ewoks, in Return Of The Jedi.

 

Maybe it's nostalgia, but the ewoks have never bothered me. Whiny prequel Anakin and his lame pick up lines bug me, the Luke/Leia kiss even though she supposedly "always knew", that bugs me. But those cute teddy bears...I still think they're okay. Maybe it's because they also have badass spears and stuff.

 

Does anyone know what kind of animal it was that some of the Ewoks headdresses
were made from?

One had what looked like a beak for a headdress, another had one
that had four fangs in the face.

What were those aninmals called, and, where can I see drawings of them?

Maybe in The Wildlife Of Star Wars ?

 

Consider this a brief re-direct to the topic at hand. 'ANH' is not 'meh' and contains no Ewoks!

 

Ewoks= Meh

 

As for me, I like 'Woks just fine. As an alien species, they're not far from Jawas or Ugnaughts -- or Oz Munchkins, for that matter. Little people/creatures have been a staple of fantasy adventure films since the inception of the form. That the denizens of Endor's moon are furry and use crude weaponry is part of their savage coolness, IMO, not of some "teddy-bear cuteness" that seems to draw so much complaint.

I would further remind the Ewoks' critics that Wookiees are cute, too! I think Chewie is adorable. When my elderly grandmother took us to see Star Wars (now 'ANH') in 1977, she said her favorite thing about it was "that dog" -- she meant Chewbacca. She giggled at his very presence. My point here is: Who cares if they're cute? They get the job done.

 

Watch 2001: A Space Odyssey before your next screening of ANH.

 

I don't think the Ewoks suck. People blow that too far out of proportion. The only thing I don't like about them is how a rock to the head can kill a stormtrooper. Other than that, their fine. I can see how their spears and arrows can hit the stormtroopers under the arm or other places where they have no armor.