Is America ready for legalized Marijuana?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by SaberSlinger, Jul 9, 2002.

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  1. Tri-Som_Gare Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2000
    star 3
    I hate to single people out, but DARTHPIGFEET, you have made some interesting statements. You made a commment that people should not post things that are so opionated, corrct me if I am wrong, some of these posts get very long and I just skim through sometimes, but you seem to be VERY opionated. All this talk about how pot is wrong and bad and not good for you, how about we talk about 2 much worse drugs that kills more people every year than gun related deaths in this country?

    First, how about alcohol? More people, innocent I might add, are killed on the roads of this country because of drunk drivers. This drug is very legal and can be bought at 95% of all corner markets. Can you tell me how many pot related deaths there were last year?

    Second, how about cigarettes? They add stuff to them to make them MORE addictive. I beleive the last number I heard was around 566,000 people died from cancer and emphysema (SP?) brought about by smoking this very legal and nasty drug last year. You have not metioned either of these drugs in any of your statements because they are accepted by society. Pot is sooo bad, but in comparison to the 2 legal drugs mentioned above, how bad is it really?

    Legalised pot would carry the same laws as alcohol. You should not operate a vehicle under the influence of any impairing drug and alcohol is one of the worst impairing drugs. I have excluded the use of crack, heroin, etc... due to the fact taht we are not even talking about those, but will mention those should never be legal. People kill for $20.00, or less, so they can get another fix of these drugs. Never heard of someone getting capped for a couple of joints. Not ALL pot smokers are criminals and not EVERYONE goes from pot to heroin. Just because you dont like it does not make it wrong. This is a free country, and there should always be rules that must be followed. But you can have too many rules.

    I have total respect for the police and their job. I could not do that job. It is probably one of the most unappreciated jobs ever, yet we have many men and women who go out everyday to protect and serve alot of unappreciative people.

    As for the crime rate? I saw some stats about roughtly 600,000 arrests for possesion. Seems that we would have alot less people being arrested in that area huh?
  2. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    There ya go. The evidence, and commen sense, speaks for itself. If someone takes marijuana and moves onto harder drugs, they would have moved onto the harder drugs if the marijuana wasn't there in the first place.

    You are right in one thing DarthPigFeet, one of the biggest viable arguments the pro-legalization side has is free choice. But do not be mistaken, this is not the only one.
    What about the fact that all negative side effects of marijuana are temporary? What about the fact that there are no addictive qualities put in MJ, and it is no more addictive than television? What about the fact that it only takes one joint to get stoned, therefore there is no need to smoke so many that you actually experience the temporary side effects i spoke of earlier? What about the fact that no one has ever died from taking too much MJ? Considering all of this, and your extreme lack of evidence, the only evidence you do have is from either government sponsored agencies or anti-drug agencies, then how can you possibly be so close minded to this subject that you admit to being??

    Your friends that unfortunately decided to take hard drugs, they WOULD have used those drugs wether or not they had MJ to begin with. And like other people have said before, drug dealers sometimes purposfully give people low quality MJ, which wouldn't happen from licensed MJ sellers if it was legal.

    MJ being illigal is doing our society more damage than it being legal, filling our already cramped prisons with perfectly decent people, costing the tax payer an absolute fortune.
  3. gwaernardel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    I think this is relevant. Here are my reasons for thinking marijuana should be legalized cut-and-pasted from page three for your convenience:

    First of all, yes, much of the money from drug sales goes to terrorism. If you legalize marijuana, the money would go to the government, which would then tax it, which would lead to anti-terrorism. If you only do this with marijuana, there are no issues involving injection. And it's not completely implausible. Look at Amsterdam. They have no huge terrorism problem, from what I can tell.
    Second, if you take away the illegality, and therefore stigma involved with smoking marijuana, people would be much less likely to go on to other drugs. Look at the Prohibition years. People had to go underground to get alcohol. It started lots of crime rings and led many people to things far worse than alcohol. When the label of illegal drug is taken off marijuana and instead applied to things that are actually harmful to you (such as crack, PCP, and heroin) it is good for the morale of the citizens. Over and over again, in polls a good deal of Americans have said that they believe marijuana, at least medicinal marijuana should be legalized. They don't like the idea that some little plant that affects them no worse than alcohol can put them in the same category as murderers, rapists, and terrorists.
    Which brings me to my third point. Jails are brimming with people that are only there because they sold pot. Under the law here, pot is considered a hallucinogenic and thus in the same category as LSD and ecstasy. Merely possession of marijuana can get you up to a year in jail. This is ludicrous. My cousin was caught selling marijuana and had to spend 2 months in jail. He had to wait for almost a year before there was a place available in the jail before serving his 2 months. With our prison systems so overcrowded, I think it's a good idea to rethink what can and can't get you in jail. What if he had been a child molester? Do you like the idea of a child molester having to sit and wait for a spot to open up before doing his time?
    And finally my fourth point is the fact that because of recreational marijuana is illegal, industrial hemp also is. Growing hemp has been illegal in the United States since 1937. You cannot get high from hemp. You can, however, use it for rope, fabric, paper, paint, and most importantly, energy. It is a renewable source of fuel that has failed to receive any government support or funding for research. Fossil fuels will run out. Hemp, an organic substance, will not. And yet we're concerned with the fact that people may use the stronger version of the plant to get themselves high. This makes me very sad for the human race.
  4. GeistDesFritz Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 3
    One quick comment about the hemp before I move onto other things:
    In the state I live in, Kansas, hemp grows naturally out in the country. Some people I know have seen 10 foot tall hemp trees. Farmers, who grow primarily wheat and stuff like that, are forbidden by the federal government to harvest the hemp and instead, feds come out once a year and spray it. This stuff isn't very potent either because it hasn't been grown to promote potency. So, lots of money has to be wasted to kill plants farmers could easily use to make more profits when crop prices slump.

    Ok, now I'd like to discuss the international effects of Marijuana (and generally, drug) prohibition in the US:
    -we've begun to violate the soveriegnty(sp?) of other nations by sending our DEA agents there. This has created natural hostility towards the U.S. and has made negotiations with these nations difficult.
    Basically, the Ugly American stereotype has moved into the drug arena where we think we can go to countries where drugs are grown and sold to the US and push them around by threatening to cut off their aid (or something else).
    I know we as Americans tend to get pretty angry when other nations scold us for certain actions, how can we blame these nations for feeling the same way?

    Oh, I'll put up some more facts later I gues...now that the threads going again.
  5. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    "I hate to single people out, but DARTHPIGFEET, you have made some interesting statements. You made a commment that people should not post things that are so opionated, corrct me if I am wrong, some of these posts get very long and I just skim through sometimes, but you seem to be VERY opionated. All this talk about how pot is wrong and bad and not good for you, how about we talk about 2 much worse drugs that kills more people every year than gun related deaths in this country?

    First, how about alcohol? More people, innocent I might add, are killed on the roads of this country because of drunk drivers. This drug is very legal and can be bought at 95% of all corner markets. Can you tell me how many pot related deaths there were last year?

    Second, how about cigarettes? They add stuff to them to make them MORE addictive. I beleive the last number I heard was around 566,000 people died from cancer and emphysema (SP?) brought about by smoking this very legal and nasty drug last year. You have not metioned either of these drugs in any of your statements because they are accepted by society. Pot is sooo bad, but in comparison to the 2 legal drugs mentioned above, how bad is it really? "

    Go back and read my posts please, because anyone who has been a regular on this thread will tell you that I don't condone alcohol or cigarettes and I think they should be illegal, because we in this nation shouldn't have a double standard. This drug is legal and oh we advertise it during the Super Bowl for millions of dollars. It's wrong. However I don't make the laws in this land. I think it's bad enough we have two of these dangerous drugs legal right now with rules and regulations attached to them as well which don't do a damn bit of good because teens still get their hands on both. I don't think it would be very good for society to add a third to that list. Free choice or not.

    As for my opinions. I was commenting on how people who are for legalizing Pot are accusing me of being very opinionated rather than factual. I commented that they too have used just as much opinions as I have. Also my true life events are not opinions they are facts I witnessed first hand. And another thing if you knew anything about me at all you would know that I'm a avid advocate for getting rid of the 2nd ammendment, because I don't believe in the right to bear arms because it's an outdated 18th century doctrine which doesn't hold water or bong water in drug terms in the 21st century.

    So before you single anyone out next time read through at least 2 previous pages before addressing things I've talked about all ready. Thank you.

  6. GeistDesFritz Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 3
    Time for some more cut and pasted information:

    11. The DEA's Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young concluded: "In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care.

    12. Commissioned by President Nixon in 1972, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse concluded that "Marihuana's relative potential for harm to the vast majority of individual users and its actual impact on society does not justify a social policy designed to seek out and firmly punish those who use it. This judgment is based on prevalent use patterns, on behavior exhibited by the vast majority of users and on our interpretations of existing medical and scientific data. This position also is consistent with the estimate by law enforcement personnel that the elimination of use is unattainable."

    13. When examining the relationship between marijuana use and violent crime, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse concluded, "Rather than inducing violent or aggressive behavior through its purported effects of lowering inhibitions, weakening impulse control and heightening aggressive tendencies, marihuana was usually found to inhibit the expression of aggressive impulses by pacifying the user, interfering with muscular coordination, reducing psychomotor activities and generally producing states of drowsiness lethargy, timidity and passivity."

    14. When examining the medical affects of marijuana use, the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse concluded, "A careful search of the literature and testimony of the nation's health officials has not revealed a single human fatality in the United States proven to have resulted solely from ingestion of marihuana. Experiments with the drug in monkeys demonstrated that the dose required for overdose death was enormous and for all practical purposes unachievable by humans smoking marihuana. This is in marked contrast to other substances in common use, most notably alcohol and barbiturate sleeping pills. The WHO reached the same conclusion in 1995.

    15. The World Health Organization released a study in March 1998 that states: "there are good reasons for saying that [the risks from cannabis] would be unlikely to seriously [compare to] the public health risks of alcohol and tobacco even if as many people used cannabis as now drink alcohol or smoke tobacco."

    Kind of weird how The Who have so much to say on this topic, isn't? Those strange, 60s bands... ;)
  7. Tri-Som_Gare Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2000
    star 3
    Actaully, if you rad my post, I was refering to the post of yours I did read. THese posts are ALL about opinions, so everyone is entitled to one, including you. I respect everyones opinion, but I do not have to agree with it. Also, I never said you condoned alcohol or cigarettes, however you fail to realise how much worse they are compared to marijuana. You also seem angry. Perhaps it is because alot of posts seem directed at you, but I singled you out because of what you said. I have nothing against you, I dont know you and I would like to think that you are a good person. But when you close your mind, as it appears to me, to this subject I must give my opinion, which you should respect as I do yours.

    You obviously have your opinion and I mine. I am not going to argue or belittle you. You stay your crusade and I will stay mine. I thought I would add to this thread, but I probably should have stayed out. It seems the majority agree that pot should be legal, maybe that upsets you because I think you think pot is so bad.

    We could go on about this for days and never agree, so I am out of this cause it will only get worse. We can agree to disagree.

    And oh yeah, it would be a travestry in this country to omit the 2nd amendment. The criminals will always have guns, regardless what laws you make against it. If you take them away from the law abiding citizens, you are only crippling them from being able to defend themselves. Sounds like more control over the people to me.
  8. SaberSlinger Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2001
    star 4
    And oh yeah, it would be a travestry in this country to omit the 2nd amendment. The criminals will always have guns, regardless what laws you make against it. If you take them away from the law abiding citizens, you are only crippling them from being able to defend themselves. Sounds like more control over the people to me.

    I couldn't possibly agree more with you there. After all, the gov't made that amendment just in case the gov't got out of control and the people needed to revolt. Also, if you make firearms illegal you pump endless streams of cash into the black market insstead of into gun stores and the gov't.

    But this isn't a 2nd Amendment thread so I digress....


    o]||||{ -------SaberSlinger-------
  9. tenorjedi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    For all those that say we should legalize drugs and tax the hell out of them here's an article for you

    NEW YORK ? If you're a smoker in New York City, there's a good chance you don't buy your cigarettes at delis or newsstands. On average, a pack of smokes is now $7.50.


    The steep price tag is thanks to a new city-imposed tax that in its first month forced cigarette sales down 50 percent -- and tax revenues up 1,000 percent. It sounds like a healthy fiscal plan, but critics warn that politicians, not just in New York but nationwide, are heading down a dangerous path. Again.

    "High taxes lead, in cases of excise taxes, to the creation of organized crime, just as Prohibition brought us the Mafia," said Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform.

    Prohibition was designed to reduce crime and solve our social ills, and it?s universally agreed upon that it backfired spectacularly. Americans just turned to illegal speakeasies, where they spent more money for stronger alcohol. Serious crimes increased.

    "It's conceivable that we could be dealing with potentially a situation similar to the times of Prohibition," said Arthur Libertucci, assistant director of the ATF's Office of Alcohol and Tobacco.


    Studies show that while higher taxes are forcing some people to stop smoking, others are getting their nicotine highs anywhere and any way they can. They're turning to the Internet and to Indian reservations to avoid paying government taxes. Organized crime has quickly realized that smoke signals money, and it's even drawn the attention of terrorists. In June, Mohamad Hammoud was convicted of running a cigarette-smuggling ring and sending the money to Hezbollah.

    "A tractor-trailer load of cigarettes has a street value in the neighborhood of $1.5 million dollars," Libertucci said.

    While the ATF continues to ask for more money to investigate illegal tobacco trafficking, it?s having trouble keeping pace with the bad guys. Compared to four years ago, the number of new investigations has gone from six cases to 97 so far this year.


    For the record if I lived in NYC I'd be buying from the mob rather than pay the city a 500% tax.
  10. sleazo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah but the problem with that logic is If Marijuana were sold legally and taxed it would still be cheaper than what the dealers are selling. I guarantee it would be a lot cheaper than $60 for a 1/8 of an ounce.
  11. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    60 bucks for and 1/8 WOW!!

    Thats Pricey. and outrageous

    I like more of 100 bucks for and ounce.
  12. Dracmus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    some places it is $15 bucks for 1/8 ounce.
  13. sleazo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    yeah but the stuff for $60 is super kind. I would have to say it is worth it.
  14. Dath_BigGAME Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2001
    star 2
    http://www.drugwarfacts.org/

    If everyone would be so kind as to go to this website, it is full of arguements and CITED sources saying that pot should be legal. You may be suprised at the number of gov agencies that reccommend it. there is a satisical comparrison of the US to the Netherlands also. Very good, to much to post, please read.
  15. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    I was hoping when I read your post it was kind, for 60 bucks, I too, have spent around that much for "quality".

    But then sometimes the Quantity is good too. :)

    But your right, Its rare to find "decent" MJ for a low price, but if government controled it would be alot cheaper than what most people pay in major cities.

  16. sleazo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    If it were legal there is no way it would cost so much.
    And for the record i do prefer Quality over quantity, i even think it turns out to be more economical over the long run since you need so much less to do a better job.
    And in NYC there is either crap or high end merchandise
  17. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    Thats true Quality for one works better. ;)
    alot of "crap" leads to nappy time unlike quality leads to happy time. :D
  18. sleazo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Too true, too true.

    Thats why i opt for kind wheni do smoke, which is pretty rare nowadays.
    But whats nice in NYC is that we have delivery services.
  19. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    Delivery service! I need to live in new york. :D
  20. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    It's really sad. Down right sad. Disturbing just how many people have to use drugs as some sort of way to get through your day. Nevermind it's down right sick, because it's nothing but a sickness.
  21. SaberSlinger Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2001
    star 4
    It's really sad. Down right sad. Disturbing just how many people have to use drugs as some sort of way to get through your day. Nevermind it's down right sick, because it's nothing but a sickness.

    Who said anything about needing drugs just to get through their day?


    o]||||{ -------SaberSlinger-------
  22. sleazo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    The Big Lebowski " you have your story and i have mine"
  23. gwaernardel Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Needing drugs? Kind of like people need coffee when they wake up in the morning? I think that's sad.

    Not to mention that people can become physiologically addicted to caffeine, but not marijuana...
  24. sleazo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Seriously if you had read my post you would know that i rarely smoke anymore. Its not about needing it to get through the day, its about having a good time now and then. I also am not saying that i need it to have a good time, just that sometimes it is nice to sit on my couch, smoke, watch a movie and eat a bag of tostitos with that cheese sauce(mmmm cheese sauce).

    So Pigfeet, why dont you just relax wqith your accusations and judging of others.
  25. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    I'm replying to some of the last 5 posts or so. Talking about prices and quality as if your shopping for cars or furniture. Or talking about delivery service and such. Joking about a serious problem is what I'm basically responding too.

    So I'm simply judging what your writing and not you.
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