Is America ready for legalized Marijuana?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by SaberSlinger, Jul 9, 2002.

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  1. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Joking about a serious problem

    Not everyone sees it as a problem, so keep that in mind.
  2. SaberSlinger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2001
    star 4
    Joking about a serious problem

    Also, nobody is joking....as far as I can tell, at least.


    o]||||{ -------SaberSlinger-------
  3. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    Drug use only becomes a problem when it becomes detrimental to your life. Such as losing your job, alienating your family, etc. Moderate recreational use is not a problem as long as it doesn't lead to something more serious.

    Getting high on a Saturday night every so often has very little negative effects.

    Of course you can also substitute red meat into my above paragraphs.
  4. GeistDesFritz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 3
    Good point, Tenor_jedi. Soon enough, the drug war is going to start including cigarettes. As the prices get higher, cigarettes have more value among gangsters.

    Talking about prices and quality as if your shopping for cars or furniture.
    Or sugar, or gasoline, or virtually any other type of commodity people use. Marijuana really isn't all that different.
  5. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    "Or sugar, or gasoline, or virtually any other type of commodity people use. Marijuana really isn't all that different"

    Oh but it is since Marijuana is an illegal substance and your breaking the law of the land.

    "Not everyone sees it as a problem, so keep that in mind."

    That is because your ignoring the fact that it is a problem that someone has to use a drug like this which is illegal for whatever reason. That is a problem. That is the source. Weakness and lack of common sense. Your asking for nothing but problems when you use Marijuana or any other illegal drugs. It could be legal problems, personal problems which come from using it, change in behavior from using it, the life style you end up living as a result all can and will become a problem from taking it. So to say there is no problem is ignoring it. What good comes from taking it?????? If you want to get numb and tired and don't want to feel or be really sleepy like Marijuana can do to you then go out and run until you pass out, or go get a hobby or go do some heavy yard work. If you have time to do drugs then you have too much time on your hands anyway. Wouldn't just going out and getting some exercise or doing a hobby or something constructive not only be safer and more healthy but also cheaper in the long run then filling your body with chemicals and smoke which can cause you to go down a path of destruction??????

    There are alternatives to doing drugs and maybe if we taught people how to vent their frustrations on doing something constructive rather than destructive then maybe we would be better off, but people want the QUICK FIX and if you think that all the answers and problems are going to vanish by smoking your drugs or shooting it or drinking it your sadly mistaken because it will still be there after the high wears off and you could have new problems as a result. Think with a clear head and the solution will present itself in due time.
  6. GeistDesFritz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 3
    Oh but it is since Marijuana is an illegal substance and your breaking the law of the land
    Yes, but since I'm arguing that it shouldn't be illegal, I consider it to be exactly the same. besides, if you've been following the facts I've been posting from www.drugwarfacts.org , then you'd know that marijuana is a lot less harmful than eating ten raw potatoes. And potatoes are legal!

    That is because your ignoring the fact that it is a problem that someone has to use a drug like this which is illegal

    Not has to but chooses to.

    What good comes from taking it??????
    Well, this is hearsay, but my brother says it makes food taste better. And it makes you more relaxed. I know some seriously high strung people who could stand a little of that. Also, it speeds up your metabolism. It could very well be the "miracle" diet drug we've been looking for. :)

    If you have time to do drugs then you have too much time on your hands anyway.
    Please, let's not get into listing certain activities a waste of time. We all post on an online forum and I know many who would consider that a complete waste of time.

    Wouldn't just going out and getting some exercise or doing a hobby or something constructive not only be safer and more healthy but also cheaper in the long run then filling your body with chemicals and smoke which can cause you to go down a path of destruction??????
    Well, marijuana would be cheaper if it were legal and there really is no evidence that marijuana alone can lead a person down a path of destruction. Once again, I'd like to reiterate, that in places like the Netherlands where marijuana is tolerated(not legal), getting completely drop dead stoned is considered an American tourist thing. They smoke a joint like we would have a some tea or a nice massage at the end of a long day. (I'd use the alcohol and cigarette comparison, but I know you don't like that and plus I don't smoke or drink so it doesn't work for me either ;) )

    Edit: sorry, I missed the bottom half of your post:
    if we taught people how to vent their frustrations on doing something constructive rather than destructive then maybe we would be better off
    Yes, but I do not believe that's something the government can and should do. Do you believe it is? I think that it would be much better if concerned citizens, like yourself perhaps, helped people realize this. If you know people who are using drugs constantly to the point where they cannot function or merely because they want to try to hide their problems, it's your duty as a human being to help.
    But there is no need to keep those who merely smoke pot because they enjoy it from it.
  7. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    First off I've been to your the site you posted. Second who the heck would eat 10 potatos???? It's like eating lots of asparigus until your Urine smells funny. Everything can be bad for you if you use to much. Even health food will tear you up if you know what I mean.

    "Well, this is hearsay, but my brother says it makes food taste better. And it makes you more relaxed. I know some seriously high strung people who could stand a little of that. Also, it speeds up your metabolism. It could very well be the "miracle" diet drug we've been looking for."

    Well it is hearsay to say that it could be a miracle drug. Like I said before I and lots of people get high strung over work and such, but you don't see me doing it. Why?? I have better things to do. I could be on here which is a waste of time most of the time, or I could work so hard that I just want to come home and go to bed.

    "Well, marijuana would be cheaper if it were legal and there really is no evidence that marijuana alone can lead a person down a path of destruction"

    I would like some proof that it would be cheaper. Second Marijuana has the effect to lower your ambitions and judgement. Both which could very well lead you down a path of destruction or distruption in your life when you decide not to go to work anymore and resort to doing nothing and stealing.

    Also don't you think comparing the United States to the Netherlands is like comparing apples to oranges???? I mean totally different customs, culture, population etc.

    "Yes, but I do not believe that's something the government can and should do. Do you believe it is? I think that it would be much better if concerned citizens, like yourself perhaps, helped people realize this. If you know people who are using drugs constantly to the point where they cannot function or merely because they want to try to hide their problems, it's your duty as a human being to help.
    But there is no need to keep those who merely smoke pot because they enjoy it from it."

    Well who elects members of the government??? We do, and so I say yes I believe since they represent us then yes it is their job to enforce the better good for the people of this nation and that is why I support those drugs staying illegal. If you don't like the laws of the land then vote them out of office who made up those laws. Now if only we could get Alcohol and cigarettes illegal then we could get rid of the double standard that some say our government and the people of this nation have. Not everyone can win but I'm choosing between free choice to do a dangerous substance and choosing to have that dangerous substance illegal and to prosecute those who want to break the rules then I'm choosing the 2nd choice. Also I'm all for rehab programs and helping people but sometimes people need a good kick to wake them up. Most people who have a problem or substance problem don't know they have one to begin with or will not admit to it, so you can help someone until they you are blue in the face, give them 300 chances to turn their lives around for the better but when do you say enough is enough and jail is the last resort. That is why I support not voluntary rehab treatment but mandatory treatment.

    Example would be this actor Robert Downey Jr. How many chances does this guy deserve. 30?? 40??? How many before you say that is enough. He should have been put in a mandatory drug rehab program for 1 year and should have been cut off from the rest of the world and some of the bad elements he hangs out with and allowed to detox and get the craving for the drug out of his system.

    I'm sorry but I saw one of my favorite films today. I movie which I think shaped me a lot, and that would be Lean on Me. The way Joe Clark took care of the situation is exactly the way I would have handled it and the only way. You throw the trash out. The druggers, hoodlums and losers and keep the other safe from those evil people. Infact I have just about the same loud mouth attitude Mr. Clark had as well. So when you try to see me think of a 6 foot 2 inch tall white guy wit
  8. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    Second Marijuana has the effect to lower your ambitions and judgement

    So does the Internet!

    Don't antagonize.
  9. Tri-Som_Gare Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2000
    star 3
    At no point in my 35 years of life have I ever seen anyone who was strung out and heading down a path of destruction because of pot. If you have seen/known someone with these traits, they were not smoking pot. They were smoking crack, PCP, or angel dust. Out of all the bad stuff that is out there why are you so against marijuana, I dont get it? You are angry about it, and I think you are most angry that everyone here tend to disagree with you on this. It is great to have a belief in something, I salute that, but it really is not bad, and the people that do it are not bad. To say that they are is to profile them and that is the worst thing you can do. Now you are judging someone for what you THINK they are. Bad, bad, bad. You can choose not to like it, but to force other people from what they want to do is wrong. IT is not a dangerous drug, period. Now heroin, cocaine, crack, those are bad drugs. Not even close to the same as pot, any in shape or fashion.

    And I dont know who mentioned caffine, but it is far more addicting than pot. Are you against caffine since it is legal and also a drug? You can buy cafine tablets over the counter to pep you up to. Interesting....

    The potatoe comment was kinda funny, but true. Raw potatoes are not good for you and very hard on your stomache.

    And BTW, the school I went to used bats for baseball, not weapons.
  10. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    Well said...Tri-Som-Gare.

    Don't smoke pot...but use a ball-bat against someone you don't agree with.

    Wonderful message, pigfoot. You must use your bat alot, you seem to like antagonizing people.

    No matter what you say, pigfeet...you are not right. Why? Because in a subject like this...its all a matter of "What you like"

    Now, its clear you don't like pot, and that is cool. No one said you have to use it. But you have absolutely no right telling me, or anyone else who shares my opinion, that I'm going down a "path of destruction".

    How many times do you eat at Burger king? How many gallons of gasoline do you use a week?

    Red meat is bad for you. If you continue to eat it...you will get heart disease, obesity, etc.

    Burning gasoline pollutes the environment...you're helping put this whole planet on a path of destruction.

    We...the people who enjoy pot...do not care about your sermonizing. I read your posts...and after I get home from my State Government job...I am probably going to sit back...turn on the stereo...and get high.

    How am I injuring you by doing this?

    I have a pretty decent job, I pay my bills, I don't raise my hand to anyone.

    How is it bad?

    Please don't think I'm flaming you. Its difficult to hate someone I've never met.
  11. GeistDesFritz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2002
    star 3
    First off I've been to your the site you posted. Second who the heck would eat 10 potatos???? It's like eating lots of asparigus until your Urine smells funny. Everything can be bad for you if you use to much. Even health food will tear you up if you know what I mean.
    Yes, everything...including marijuana. Since you have been to the website, then you've seen the information and know this as well as I do.

    Like I said before I and lots of people get high strung over work and such, but you don't see me doing it. Why??
    Because you choose not to. And some choose to. That doesn't change your decision nor does your decision effect theirs. It's safe to say that this wouldn't change even if Marijuana were legal.

    I would like some proof that it would be cheaper
    Well, it's called "supply and demand." When the supply is enough to meet the demand, price is stable. When the supply is too much to meet demand, price goes down. When supply is too little to meet demand, price goes up. When supply is artifically limited (by say, making something illegal) then price goes up. Now for further information on the general principles of economics, here's a link: The Wealth of Nations
    You probably want chapter 5.
    Second Marijuana has the effect to lower your ambitions and judgement.
    Apparently you didn't read the website well enough because fact number 17 on the marijuana page is (drum roll please...)
    Some claim that cannabis use leads to "adult amotivation." The World Health Organization report addresses the issue and states, "it is doubtful that cannabis use produces a well defined amotivational syndrome." The report also notes that the value of studies which support the "adult amotivation" theory are "limited by their small sample sizes" and lack of representative social/cultural groups.
    In other words, it was inconclusive.
    Also don't you think comparing the United States to the Netherlands is like comparing apples to oranges???? I mean totally different customs, culture, population etc.
    No, not really. They're just as human as we are. Their customs are Western, just ours are. Maybe it's like comparing a Red Delicious apple to a Fuji apple, but it's still an apple.

    I say yes I believe since they represent us then yes it is their job to enforce the better good for the people of this nation and that is why I support those drugs staying illegal.
    The problem is that the very same representatives we elect to Congress are not allowed to make laws that prohibit drugs. That right belongs to the individual person and/or the state. NOT to the federal government.

    If you don't like the laws of the land then vote them out of office who made up those laws.
    Trust me, as a Libertarian, I'm aiming to do just that. :)

    Alcohol and cigarettes illegal then we could get rid of the double standard that some say our government and the people of this nation have.
    Wouldn't it make a lot more sense (and be more constitutional) to just make marijuana legal? And we have tried making alcohol illegal...it's called prohibition during the 1920s. It utterly failed. Go read a book on it. It's really interesting.

    I'm choosing between free choice to do a dangerous substance and choosing to have that dangerous substance illegal and to prosecute those who want to break the rules then I'm choosing the 2nd choice
    Then fine. Choose that yourself, but let the rest of us make our own decisions. I, for one, am more than willing to take responsibility for my own decisions instead of letting Big Brother do it all for me.

    Also I'm all for rehab programs and helping people but sometimes people need a good kick to wake them up. Most people who have a problem or substance problem don't know they have one to begin with or will not admit to it, so you can help someone until they you are blue in the face, give them 300 chances to turn their lives around for the better but when do you say en
  12. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    "No matter what you say, pigfeet...you are not right. Why? Because in a subject like this...its all a matter of "What you like"


    No this is about what is right and what is wrong. As it stands right now using Marijuana is illegal and against the law. Hense it is wrong to use it. Sure you don't like that because you don't want to get into trouble for using a controlled substance. So until the day comes which I hope is never when it is legal then it will not be right to use it. So have all the personal free choice you want but be PREPARED to pay for that free choice with a drug charge being added to your drug record or possible jail time. I hope you can accept that, and you will have no one to blame but yourself.

    Also I've read plenty on Prohibition and I will tell you right now, alcohol is for whatever reason is a much more acceptable drug used all around the world than Pot every will be. So comparing the two is comparing apples and oranges. Not too mention that alcohol was legal before it was made illegal and that was the other reason why it didn't work. Once you make something legal and try to make illegal your going to run into problems.

    Also my Joe Clark thing was a visual example about how he called himself Bat man and all that. Not that I wack people over the head with baseball bats or anything. Sorry if you took what I wrote wrong, but that is typical around here. It's amazing I think since I'm always mis-quoted or whatever more on this JC board, and that goes for where ever I'm at here on the JC, compared to other places. So I don't think it's me, but some of the members on this board who love take things out of wack. Anyway it's just an observation I noticed.
  13. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    No this is about what is right and what is wrong. As it stands right now using Marijuana is illegal and against the law. Hense it is wrong to use it.

    Holy crap. This type of thinking scares the hell out of me. Just because something is illegal does not make it morally wrong and just because something is legal does not make it morally right. Damn. People need to wake up and start thinking for themselves.
  14. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    Not too mention that alcohol was legal before it was made illegal and that was the other reason why it didn't work. Once you make something legal and try to make illegal your going to run into problems.

    Most drugs began as legal and then were criminalized. Such as pot, opiates and LSD.
  15. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    No this is about what is right and what is wrong. As it stands right now using Marijuana is illegal and against the law. Hense it is wrong to use it

    Not to be redundant after Wylding, but just because it is currently illegal does not mean it should be illegal, and the same goes for the morality of it.

  16. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    "Most drugs began as legal and then were criminalized"

    And it was for good reason to. Once people saw what can happen when you take it and such and not to mention it's bad for you then that is why it was made illegal.

    If I scare the crap out of you then sorry but there are very good and valid reasons which I've seen first hand to understand why it is illegal. Sure not everyone will become some crazed drug addict but the fact is that some do and run amuck and I guess the old saying a few spoil the fun for others. Anyway I'm sick and tired of this thread and writing on it. I can't believe I have kept writing in it. It's the same with a lot of the threads I write about in the Senate. I guess there are just too many darn liberals, or hippies in this Senate for me to contend with. So this is my last post in this particular thread. Goodbye.

    Let the cheering begin and break out your pot and light one.
  17. gwaernardel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    What a loss. I know I'll miss your oh-so-intelligent arguments.
  18. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    I guess there are just too many darn liberals, or hippies in this Senate for me to contend with

    I'm neither, Its alot different here in the west you don't have to be one of those to be a pot smoker.
  19. SaberSlinger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2001
    star 4
    I'm neither, Its alot different here in the west you don't have to be one of those to be a pot smoker.

    Amen, DESERTJEDI ;)
    I'm also neither.


    o]||||{ -------SaberSlinger-------
  20. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    And it was for good reason to. Once people saw what can happen when you take it and such and not to mention it's bad for you then that is why it was made illegal.

    90% WRONG. Most drugs were criminalized because of wives' tales and racism. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain the history of drugs in the US, so I suggest you read up on some history about it.

    To quickly summarize. Pot was criminalized (sorry don't have a date handy) as a reponse to the reefer madness myth and a racist action against the predominant users in the early part of the century: Mexican migrant workers. It was thought it made them more prone to bouts of madness, causing them to rape white women.

    Opiates were brought into the US (legally) in the early part of the century by Chinese immigrants who would work the railroads. The illegalization of opiates was racist response to the growing animosity toward this new wave of immigrants. Once again it was criminalized because people thought opiates would drive the Chinese mad, causing them to rape white women.
  21. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    I wish I could find a link, but I was watching the news and it had a spokesman from a "police" organization in nevada who is in favor of lifting the charges for adults with small amounts of marijuana, because they would rather use their time fighting "real" problems like Meth, Cocaine, and Heroin.

    Has anyone else seen this

    Plus hippies smell. :p
  22. SaberSlinger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2001
    star 4
    I haven't seen the article. If you come across a link, you should share it with us.

    I hate being called a hippie. Sure, I have long hair and all but I shower daily and I have a decent job ;)


    o]||||{ -------SaberSlinger-------
  23. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    I used to have long hair and people thought I was a hippie, I just liked their drugs :p
  24. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Okay, back on topic (seriously, that is).
  25. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Pigfeet won't be missed in this topic. He didn't bring much facts to the table. All he brought was his own sense of morality, and right and wrong. I really don't want to live in a society where someones sence of morality is thrust upon everyone else.

    When you look at the facts... the reasons for MJ becoming illigal in the first place... the effects... the many different kinds of people that use it and do not suffer because of it... you can't reasonably want it to stay illigal. It would actually be benificial to society, not harmful.
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