Is America ready for legalized Marijuana?

Yeah it also said that no one ever robbed a store for cigarettes but that's not true. Over the forth someone smashed a gas station window near my apartment and all they took was a box of cigarettes.

The fact is that an addict will do whatever it takes to get their fix. also it needs to be considered that even if they were made legal the taxes would still be restrictivly high.

 

The window was probably smashed by some punk kids, or by some drunks.

 

Something that special didn't focus on is that most violent crimes or even stolen property cases are a result of someone doing these acts because it's drug related

Yes PIGFEET, but all drugs aren't marijuana. You know the difference, use only marijuana we all know in here that "hard Drugs" cause crime, we are talking about marijuana here not everything else.

 

Some members, and the special last night are talking legalizing all drugs, not just pot.

 

The fact is that an addict will do whatever it takes to get their fix. also it needs to be considered that even if they were made legal the taxes would still be restrictivly high.

Yes, but if we had tons of tax money coming from it, and the cops could quit spending their time fighting the big dangerous drug war, they could actually spend some time and money investigating these robberies and gang wars and preventing people from being killed.

 

Nobody ever addresses that fact that the drug dealers who around now are not going to pack up and leave folks.
No, they aren't going to pack up and leave. Instead, they'll be forced to deal Marijuana in free market circumstances. No longer can they charge high prices and push people around to get them to use their drugs because the users and buyers will be able to go elsewhere with their money.
One really good point I saw in the special was the discussion of how prohibition of drugs messes up the rules of supply and demand. Demand for drugs tends to remain the same but prohibition causes the supply of it to be restricted, thus driving up prices. Which causes drug empires, crime, etc.
The same thing would theoretically happen if the government made, say, peanut butter illegal. Some people like it, some don't but those who like it would be forced to pay higher for a restricted supply.

 

"Yes, but if we had tons of tax money coming from it, and the cops could quit spending their time fighting the big dangerous drug war, they could actually spend some time and money investigating these robberies and gang wars and preventing people from being killed."

Yeah tax dollars will solve all the problems. No fight the drug war and lock these people up so that they cannot go out and commit these robberies and take back the streets from the street gangs. Why should we give in to these punks because they are violent???? Fight back and lay down the law. Don't roll over and say oh go ahead and do what you want.

"No, they aren't going to pack up and leave. Instead, they'll be forced to deal Marijuana in free market circumstances. No longer can they charge high prices and push people around to get them to use their drugs because the users and buyers will be able to go elsewhere with their money."

You HONESTLY think criminals are going sell there stuff legally???? Oh they can still push people around because once you make it legal your going to start taking his customers away. Do you think they will allow their profits to be going taxed??? Heck lets bring up Prohibition here. Mr. Al Capone was put in jail for income tax evasion.

Plus I would also like to remark that people steal cigarettes all the time. Smash and grab jobs happen all the time. Why don't you all watch those caught on tape videos and you will see that the criminals go for the Cigarettes. It happens all the time. So there is another flaw in this program.

"Yes PIGFEET, but all drugs aren't marijuana. You know the difference, use only marijuana we all know in here that "hard Drugs" cause crime, we are talking about marijuana here not everything else."

Pot does the same thing. Pot lowers your desires and makes you lazy and when your lazy you don't work and major Pot users will steal to get their money. That was one of the things my three friends loved doing to their parents and family when they weren't looking.

 

You HONESTLY think criminals are going sell there stuff legally????
Yeah, it's either that or they're going to have to start smuggling freon up from Mexico if they want to keep doing something illegal. Making drugs legal will be a major step in busting gang's and mafia's source of income. They'll be forced to either sell it legally and stay in the business or go into some other illegal and highly profitible business. (like Freon. Buy a $2 bottle in Mexico...sell it here for $20. Awesome )

Oh and since I'm feeling particularly Libertarian tonight, I'm going to talk about how there is nothing in the Constitution that says marijuana (or any other drugs, but this thread is meant for marijuana) should be illegal:
There are 6 things enumerated in the Constitution that the Federal Government is supposed to do:
form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.

Now, is it just to put someone in jail for many years just because they smoked some pot when violent criminals can get out on parole easily? Maybe we should distinguish between violent and victimless crimes!

Insure domestic tranquility: letting gangs and the mafia control the marijuana market in the US is not bringing domestic peace. It's causing lower-income neighborhoods to become war zones.

General welfare: The Federal Government should only be concerned with making laws that protect the general population. IE, laws that would keep corporate corruption from wrecking havoc.

Liberty: It's obvious that the Federal Gov't isn't promoting liberty if you can't even smoke a joint to kick back at the end of the day.

Now, the most important but really overlooked part of the constitution:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
This means that any of the powers not listed at the beginning of the Constitution or in any of the articles, belong to the states (IE, Kansas, Nevada, California, New York) or to the people. Therefore, if a state wanted to make marijuana illegal, than it is the right of the state to do so and people can show what they think by leaving and going to another state while remaining in the US. But if the Federal US Gov't makes marijuana illegal, it is unconstitutional and should not be done.

Oh and I invite anyone to try to point out a clause of the Constitution that could be interpreted as supporting illegal marijuana. And yes, the Constitution is the highest law of the land.

Edited to make it more reader friendly.

 

Pot does the same thing. Pot lowers your desires and makes you lazy and when your lazy you don't work and major Pot users will steal to get their money.

That's called a stereotype.

 

The first American flag was made out of hemp.

 

"Now, is it just to put someone in jail for many years just because they smoked some pot when violent criminals can get out on parole easily? Maybe we should distinguish between violent and victimless crimes! "

First off this is what I think should happen to those who smoke Pot.

1st offense. Pay fine, not added to your record.

2nd offense. Pay fine, added to your record and you must now go into mandatory rehab.

3rd offense. Fine, 30 days in jail.

"Insure domestic tranquility: letting gangs and the mafia control the marijuana market in the US is not bringing domestic peace. It's causing lower-income neighborhoods to become war zones.

General welfare: The Federal Government should only be concerned with making laws that protect the general population. IE, laws that would keep corporate corruption from wrecking havoc.

Liberty: It's obvious that the Federal Gov't isn't promoting liberty if you can't even smoke a joint to kick back at the end of the day. "

Not fact but only opinion. You think we should just turn our backs to a major problem?

I think General welfare is to have our streets safe so that people can walk from point A to point B without dodging bullets or having someone come up to your child and offer drugs to them.

Liberty. Don't you think Alcohol and Cigarettes are bad enough? Why add a third?

"Now, the most important but really overlooked part of the constitution:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
This means that any of the powers not listed at the beginning of the Constitution or in any of the articles, belong to the states (IE, Kansas, Nevada, California, New York) or to the people. Therefore, if a state wanted to make marijuana illegal, than it is the right of the state to do so and people can show what they think by leaving and going to another state while remaining in the US. But if the Federal US Gov't makes marijuana illegal, it is unconstitutional and should not be done.

Oh and I invite anyone to try to point out a clause of the Constitution that could be interpreted as supporting illegal marijuana. And yes, the Constitution is the highest law of the land. "

Because there is already a Federal Law in place which would override any new law legalizing it in Nevada. that includes smoking Marijuana for medical purposes. So keep wishing upon a star.

The Constitution is already broad enough as it is and back in the 18th century your drugs were Alcohol and a bad one at that and tobacco without all the chemicals in it. So trying to compare a 18th century document with a 20th century problem isn't very smart. The way you interpret the laws based on your views of the Constitution would make you one of Jeffersons Republicans of the 19th century, and I guess my opinion would make me a Federalist. The same thing has gone on since the beginning of this republic. Those who want big government which I don't and those who don't want big government. I will support and law by our federal government prohibiting legal use of Pot.

 

Don't you think Alcohol and Cigarettes are bad enough? Why add a third

Bad in your eyes, not in everyone's eyes. I believe people are saying that it's not the government's place to make that kind of judgment.


First off this is what I think should happen to those who smoke Pot.

1st offense. Pay fine, not added to your record.

2nd offense. Pay fine, added to your record and you must now go into mandatory rehab.

3rd offense. Fine, 30 days in jail.


How about nothing at all?

I find it interesting how you keep going on about what should happen to people who use marijuana, and other people here are saying that it shouldn't be illegal in the first place.

 

I think General welfare is to have our streets safe so that people can walk from point A to point B without dodging bullets or having someone come up to your child and offer drugs to them.

Haven't we established that if marijuana was legal we wouldn't have this problem? Kids don't get offered alcohol on the street. Why? Because it's legal. People don't shoot each other in the streets over turf wars as a result of alcohol. Why? Because it's legal. I'm tiring of putting forth this same argument over and over. If you have some other argument, Pigfeet, please share.

 

"How about nothing at all?

I find it interesting how you keep going on about what should happen to people who use marijuana, and other people here are saying that it shouldn't be illegal in the first place."

Look I'm commenting on what I think should be done to people who smoke Pot while it's illegal. You have three steps before jail time is issued, and the first two times should be warning enough to not do it again. So instead of someone being put in jail the first time it should be like getting a speeding ticket and then on the second trip around you go to rehab which is where these people need to be before it becomes a serious problem, and the third step is 30 days in jail.

Also the people on this board do not represent the majority of the people in this country who think it should remain illegal. So what's your point knightwriter?????? Yes I may be in the minority on this forum when it comes to a lot of things and I could care less if you like what I have to say or not, but the truth is the problem will not go away by legalizing it. You can compare Europe to America but it doesn't hold up. Why???? Culture, morals and values are different in both places. Not to mention the population numbers are different. So trying to compare crime trends of a small country and comparing it to the U.S.A will always show a lower crime rate or drug problem.

Plus I hate to do this but watching that special last night reinforced what I believe all along. Look at some of the people they are interviewing in these coffee shops in Amsterdam. They all look terrible and waste their time in a shop getting high and not doing anything. That is a waste of space if you ask me. They look physically sick and unattractive. The girl with the dreds looked horrible. It's really sad.


"Haven't we established that if marijuana was legal we wouldn't have this problem? "

That is a big "WHAT IF" It may work in Europe but not here.

Here is my argument. There is RIGHT and there is WRONG. Making something legal doesn't make it RIGHT. Slavery was legal for over 78 years before it was made illegal, so your saying to make it right it has to be legal. No it's wrong to make Pot legal, and it will not solve any problems, but will only create new ones, and I'm not about to stand for it.

I don't think Alcohol or Cigarettes should be legal, but unfortunately both of these drugs are a basic American national past time. For they were both used and around before the Constitution, and the Hemp used to make the first American flag means nothing. Hemp was used to make things and it wasn't used to smoke it the way people do it today. You can make rope and all sorts of things, so whats the point to that statement?

The whole prohibition act was enforced wrong, and if your going to enforce something you need people who want to enforce it and not become corrupted by it, but there is another Human weakness. Greed.

 

Look I'm commenting on what I think should be done to people who smoke Pot while it's illegal. You have three steps before jail time is issued, and the first two times should be warning enough to not do it again. So instead of someone being put in jail the first time it should be like getting a speeding ticket and then on the second trip around you go to rehab which is where these people need to be before it becomes a serious problem, and the third step is 30 days in jail.

And people here are saying that it shouldn't be illegal at all. That's all well and good while it's illegal, but people have moved beyond that here.

Also the people on this board do not represent the majority of the people in this country who think it should remain illegal.

Could you provide a reputable poll or figure that backs that statement up?

That is a big "WHAT IF" It may work in Europe but not here.

You cannot know that for certain.

Here is my argument. There is RIGHT and there is WRONG.

See, not everyone sees things as right and wrong. Others see things with grey area as well. Not all things are right and wrong, and not all people see in black and white.

 

Well I do see it as right or wrong just as you all think this junk should be legal. So if there is nothing else to say then that is it.

 

That seems to be the case.

 

This is about weed. Not hard drugs. Show me an example where a criminal has stolen just to buy weed? Smoke a J and then I will ask you if you wanna go commit some violence with me. Both of us will laugh and eat doritos.

Pigfeet: Do you hate homosexuals? Do you hate african americans? Do you hate caucasions? I would assume that you were brought up Southern Babtist in Alabama? You sound just like me before the first time that I ever visited outside the south. Open your eyes to the world around you. Everyone has things that are important to them, but not you. That is what America is all about, free choice.

 

You think we should just turn our backs to a major problem?
It's only a major problem because we made it illegal. It was only then that it became very profitible, just like alcohol.

I think General welfare is to have our streets safe so that people can walk from point A to point B without dodging bullets or having someone come up to your child and offer drugs to them.
That's funny. Because that's exactly what the drug war has caused. Drug dealers are pushier because they want to make their major profit and have another person addicted so that they'll do anything to get another fix. That's why a lot of the drugs you buy on the streets today aren't pure. Marijuana is sometimes mixed with harder drugs so the person becomes addictive. By making marijuana illegal, the government has abandoned all control it would other wise have over the sale, production and use of pot. Just like it did when abortions and alcohol were illegal.

Liberty. Don't you think Alcohol and Cigarettes are bad enough? Why add a third?
I think I'll just let my friend Mr. Jefferson handle this one: "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
It does me no harm that people smoke, or drink, even if I choose not to. The only harm it may do is to my ego and only because it ruins my grand sense of being 'right' to see people actively disagreeing with me.

Because there is already a Federal Law in place which would override any new law legalizing it in Nevada
Yes, but my point in posting all that stuff from the Constitution was to show that any law making drugs (ok, just marijuana in this thread) illegal is unconstitutional because there is nothing in the Constitution that says they have the right to prohibit the use of Marijuana at a federal level. By allowing the states to use their right to allow or disallow marijuana, you could live in your state with marijuana illegal and I could live in mine. And we'd both be happy (though I would have to lord over you with our lower drug-related crime rates )

trying to compare a 18th century document with a 20th century problem isn't very smart.
Any ideas why marijuana wasn't a problem in the 18th century? Anyone? Well, I'm going to venture to say that it might be because it was legal then. And, yes, comparing an 18th century document with the 20th century 'problem' is a smart idea. The Constitution was meant to apply to the U.S. as long as the country existed. So, yes, it is smart to go back to the foundation of our government to see if there is anything to support prohibition of marijuana in our Constitution.

Those who want big government which I don't and those who don't want big government
I'm sorry, but this line really confused me. You're saying you don't want big government yet are separating yourself from 'those who don't want big government.' Could you clarify?
The way you interpret the laws based on your views of the Constitution would make you one of Jeffersons Republicans of the 19th century
Actually, classical liberal. The original Democratic Party was based on Jefferson's philosophy but has rapidly moved away from it to where the Libertarian Party is actually the one I identify with. Hey, I can nit pick

I will support and law by our federal government prohibiting legal use of Pot.
Sure, I will obide by the letter of the law as long as there is one prohibiting the use of marijuana (provided that I don't get deathly ill) simply because I recognize that the US was a country founded on the basis of law. But that doesn't mean I support it. I'm merely waiting for people to realize that Federal Laws too are guided by something higher, the Constitution.

 

Oh and just in case any one is interested, here's a link to a site that has a whole lot of data on the war on drugs:
http://www.drugwarfacts.org
and the specific page about marijuana:
http://wwww.drugwarfacts.org/marijuan.htm

There.

 

"Pigfeet: Do you hate homosexuals? Do you hate african americans? Do you hate caucasions? I would assume that you were brought up Southern Babtist in Alabama? You sound just like me before the first time that I ever visited outside the south. Open your eyes to the world around you. Everyone has things that are important to them, but not you. That is what America is all about, free choice"

You know you shouldn't have gone there. First off I'm not from freaking Alabama I'm from Orlando, Florida one of the most culture diverse areas you will ever be in smarty. No I don't hate homosexuals. No I don't hate African Americans and I'm friends which a lot of them and they would not be very happy right now with you for accusing me of these things. I don't hate Caucasions. I don't hate anyone except ignorant fools like yourself who come up with stupid comments like what you said. I have my eyes wide open buddy and I know what's going on and I don't like it. Yeah America is for free choice but when that free choice becomes a problem for others around you then you can take that free choice and scrap it. Drugs are bad for whites, blacks, red, blue, and green people. So I would appreciate if you would stop assuming things and making yourself out to be a real ignorant.

 

Yeah America is for free choice but when that free choice becomes a problem for others around you then you can take that free choice and scrap it.

Removing free choice and liberty is the first step down a dark dangerous path.

 

I'm not saying removing all free choices. Heck the way you all sound then you think that there should be no posted speed limits or you shouldn't get speeding tickets for reckless driving because it takes away free choice to speed.

I'm saying doing drugs isn't a free choice because just like reckless driving it can harm others in the process. There must be rules and laws and without them that would be a dangerous path to take as well. So there is that grey area you all love talking about, and free choice can be defined in a grey area. You cannot give free choice to issues and thing which can put other peoples lives in danger, because that violates my right to LIFE.

 

You cannot give free choice to issues and thing which can put other peoples lives in danger, because that violates my right to LIFE.

We're not talking about all drugs in this thread. We're talking about Marijuana.

 

I'm saying doing drugs isn't a free choice because just like reckless driving it can harm others in the process

How does doing drugs harm others in the process? I can see how doing drugs that are illegal can harm others in the process. But I fail to see how, if marijuana were legalized, someone buying marijuana in a shop and then going home to smoke it will hurt anyone except themselves. (And even that is debatable.)