Is Anakin in fact the chosen one?

Good luck...

 

Is this thread in fact the chosen one?


;o)

 

I think the issue of the Chosen One, comes down to Luke. Lucas said once, "Luke's job is to undo a mess that Obi Wan created - and Yoda had a hand in it too."

I believe he is the Chosen One, simply because he brings forth a new frontier - he redeems his father, kills an evil dictator, and gains a sister in the process.

But, then again, that's just me.

 

Wow, I just finished reading this thread, and it goes right to the heart of the saga itself!

First off, from what we know in TPM, there is a prophecy that speaks of the one who will bring Balance to the Force. Although there is not much light shed on the specifics of this prediction, we can see that the Jedi look favourably on this prophecy. Thus, bringing balance is not necessarily to rid the galaxy of evil. That is impossible. It means that we are now AWARE of what is right and what is wrong.

Some believe that Anakin restoring balance means that the amount of good and evil in the galaxy is made equal. This notion is incorrect, for if this were so, the Jedi would not look upon it in a favourable light.

Another point I would like to add, is that Anakin is not the Chosen One for certain. Only Qui-Gon believes him to be the Chosen One.

I bring this up because I watched ROTJ yesterday, and noticed that Darth Vader and the Emperor both speak to Luke as if turning to the Dark Side is his destiny. As we all know, Luke does not. He was able to fight the feeling of fate in the end when he refuses to kill his father. The reason for this is he sees his father's chopped hand, and then looks at his own.

Thus, the destiny element in the saga is that we are capable of controlling our fate, and not vice versa. Sideous will likely use the notion of Anakin being the Chosen One as a tool in turning Ani to the Dark Side. He will make it seem that him turning is part of his fate. Sideous will speak to Anakin the same way that the Emperor speaks to Luke. "It is unavoidable. It is your destiny". The difference is that Ani turns, where Luke does not.

The prophecy is then fulfilled, not because Ani is the Chosen One per se, but because he fights the fate element, thereby causing the prediction to come true, ironically! However, had it been anyone else in the same situation, they would be the so-called Chosen One, and not Anakin.

The Jedi were not without their acts of evil. Qui-Gon lied and cheated in the name of the will of the Force. Also, the Jedi rested on the prophecy that someone else will bring balance, and thus they could just sit back and everything would be made right in time.

I believe that the core message will be that we are the masters of our own destiny. The mistake with the ancient Greeks and the Jedi was that they believed we were puppets, and to fight fate is useless. Anakin, by bringing balance, shows us that we must make decisions based on what we feel is right or wrong, and by putting fate in our own hands.

 

I think the case comes down to two points.

What does balance mean? I think this is left vague completely and totally on purpose, and I honostly believe it possible that it will never truly be explained in the films, because the concept dissappears in the second half. I even feel it possible to point out the fact that maybe, just maybe, there is a minute possibility that this is a loose end they won't resolve until they make a third, sequel trilogy. Every says "the story is wrapped up!" well, Lucas can plant things in the next two episodes that could need to get resolved much, much later.

The other point of debate is whether Lucas would intentionally mislead the fanbase. I think it is entirely possible he would. I also think he may change his mind about a great many things between films. Who knows.

 

Very true, Obi-Wan McCartney. This is only speculation, after all.

As for the meaning of balance, we can determine the specifics by what is given in TPM. It is obvious that the Jedi look favourably on bringing balance to the Force. Thus, we can conclude that balancing good and evil is not what bringing balance means.

Yes, the concept of bringing balance is never mentioned in the OT. I have a theory about this, which explains this fact. Of course, it can all be proven wrong when Lucas makes his "Final OT". I believe that he will make only minor changes to fix up continuity problems, but only time will tell.
The reason I think bringing balance is never mentioned by Obi-Wan or Yoda, is that they have lost faith in the prophecy. Anakin was thought to bring balance, but he turned to the Dark Side, the Jedi were massacred, and the Republic was destroyed. At this point in time, both Ben and Yoda feel that Anakin is lost forever. Luke (and possibly Leia) is now their last hope, and they don't want him (her) to turn to the Dark Side also. They never mention bringing balance because they fear it will jinx Luke as it did Anakin. In the end, Anakin comes back to bring balance, but only because his son caused him to reflect on his life.

Regarding the notion of the "Chosen One", I believe the message is that we are all potential "Chosen Ones". I think the message is that no one is BORN a "Chosen One", but we BECOME it through our actions. Being in the right place at the right time is also important, but it is very possible that Anakin would NOT stop the Emperor from killing Luke. Indeed, he was in the right place at the right time, but he made the DECISION to save his son and bring balance.

Thus, the message is for everyone to take action when we are capable of doing good. Rather than wait for someone else to do something about the problems facing mankind, we are encouraged to take action ourselves to help the world in whatever way we can. If everyone pitched in and contributed to helping his fellow man, the world would be a better place. Granted, it is an idealistic notion, and it is not easy, but it is something humanity should never stop striving for.

On a lighter note, I like your taste in music. Beatles rock!

 

Yes we all have free will and have the ability to impact certain things, but the whole concept of the chosen one is the one who is the focal point of all of this change. The moon revolves around the earth, but the earth revolves around the Sun. If there was no Sun, there would be no earth or moon. So the Jedi and Greeks are right with their philosophy. Even if none of the jedi wanted to believe that Anakin is the chosen one, he still would be. It is impossible to stop...u can't even talk about it....no one can stop Anakin's fate, not even Anakin. Yes he can make choices but those were the choices he was predestined to make--OH STOP TRICK THE FORCE, KILL THIS GUY INSTEAD!--nope sorry ani, u were predestined for that one too. Anakin is a puppet of the force, talented on too. Luke is not though.

 

Why did this thread die. Keep opinions going, this is a fantastic topic!

 

Thanks for keeping this thread alive!
It is the most important aspect of the saga, imho.

"The moon revolves around the earth, but the earth revolves around the Sun. If there was no Sun, there would be no earth or moon."

True, but if there was no universe, there would be no sun, either. I'm not entirely sure, but I think you're talking about determinism. There is no doubt that I believe in determinism, but I do not feel it applies to an individual's fate. I strongly believe that we control our OWN destiny. The idea that we are puppets on a stage with no control over our destiny is utterly ludicrous. However, I have seen people in relationships where this is so, but that's another matter entirely.

"Yes he can make choices but those were the choices he was predestined to make."

I must disagree with this point. Anakin turned to the Dark Side by CHOICE, not because he was pre-destined to do so. Similarly, it was Anakin's CHOICE to save his son from the Emperor, and by doing so, he brought balance. I have a feeling that Sideous will use the prophecy to his advantage. "It is unavoidable. It is your destiny." I believe that Anakin will be in a similar situation to Luke in ROTJ. He will find himself in a hopeless and desperate situation that Luke also faced. The difference is that Anakin was seduced, and made the DECISION to turn to the Dark Side, while Luke made the DECISION to save his father, and remain on the path to the Light Side. Anakin's final decision to save his son and bring balance was a conscious choice he made. He was NOT destined to make that choice per se. In the process, the Sith were brought to justice, balance was restored, his son was saved, and Anakin was redeemed for his past failures.

 

I was eating lunch today, and came up with this revelation: Anakin will believe he is fulfilling the prophecy by embracing the dark side, because he has been manipulated into thinking that the TRUE NATURE of the force is the through the dark side. Although he makes the conscious choice to go to the dark side, that doesn't mean it wasn't his destiny. However, the controversy of the dark side being the only way is resolved when Luke decides not destroy his father and proves to Vader that the dark side isn't the only way.

 

Yeah, I have a feeling Anakin will turn because he feels it is a part of his destiny.

The problem with prophecies, both in our world and the GFFA, is that people go out of their way to make them come true. How many prophecies have there been predicting the end of the world? Too many to count! In all cases where the so-called date for the end of the world has passed, there has been tremendous disappointment among followers of the particular religious sect. They are disappointed that they're still living! Actually, their disappointment stems from the fact that the prophecy has failed them.

If there is anything that will cause the end of the world, it will be due to the follies of mankind, and not some prophecy. It certainly isn't our destiny for all of us to be wiped out. That is sheer, utter nonsense.

In the case of the prophecy in the Star Wars universe, the prophecy is what causes the downfall of the Jedi and the Old Republic. The Jedi are the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. However, the prophecy has stymied their effectiveness, because they feel that no matter what they do, it will not be THEM who bring balance. This likely prevents them from realizing their full potential. It is the feeling of uselessness and hopelessness that causes the turmoil to erupt in the galaxy.

Individuals are NOT pre-destined to do anything. We control our own fate, and only after all of mankind begins realizing this will the world be a better place.

 

Up.

 

Yes, don't you remember the end of ROJ?

 

JollyJedi and JediAaron, are we sure that in the SW universe, you control your own fate? Another possible explanation for the end of RotJ is that Anakin was fighting his fate (to save the universe) while he was Vader. There are many ways to view the same event...

 

It's just hard to believe that this chosen one thing would be So important in the first half of the series, and then they NEVER MENTION IT AGAIN!

 

Luke is the son of...




Padmé and Anakin (Like Leia).




Anakin is the son of...





Shmi and the Force.
I suppose that all of you who think that Luke is the choosen one also you will think that Leia is the choosen one (they are twin brothers).

 

NO THEY AREN'!?!

 

LOL! Leia is Luke's twin brother!

Luke: Yoda spoke of another.

Obi Wan: That other is your twin brother.

Luke: Leia...Leia's my brother.

Obi Wan: Your insight serves you...disturbingly well. Oh God, and you kissed him too!

 

UPSSS!

 

I lean on Anakin being the chosen one. Luke however was very instrumental in turning him back. He is very important in the equation too. I guess its sort of a humility lesson for Anakin/Vader because he needed help from his son when he was supposed to be the "greatest Jedi ever". Ironic eh?

My opinion is that since vader PHYSICALLY destroyed the emperor and Vader, (back to anakin), then he IS the chosen one.

But God knows what GL has planned.

 

Luke redeems his father, but it is Anakin that brings balance, and is the chosen one. vader was fighting his true destiny for over twenty years, but it is his son that causes him to see the light. However, it is Anakin that makes the choice to change, thus causing him to be redeemed, by destryoing the Emporer and saving his son. That is when he brings balance to the force. It was his destiny, and since the prophecy said that the chosen one would bring balance to the force, than Anakin is the chosen one, since he did bring balance in ROTJ.

I think that the same people who continue to argue this fact, after Lucas said that Anakin is the chosen one and brings balance, are the same people who can't accept that Anakin is the chosen one, and brings balance to the force. They just want to accept him as a villian, and not as a complex person, who was good early in life, but turned bad, and who was redeemed at the end, and became good again. I also think that they can't fully accept that there is much more to him than some person who was darth vader. Lucas always said that the PT would change our views of the OT and especially darth vader, and it is happening already.

 

Let's see what new folks have to say about this long-debated topic.

Up!

 

Anakin is the chosen one, since he destroys the Emperor. Luke showed his father how to submit to the will of the Force, but Anakin was the one who actually did the deed. Luke would have been destroyed if not for Anakin's destruction of the Emperor.

 

Lady Phoenix, yes, i do think peeps in the star wars universe control their own fate. reason i think so is cos every major action a character has done in star wars has been due to their own volition.

for example, luke chose to join the rebels in attacking the DS, han chose to save him in the DS trench, anakin chose to go to the dark side, etc. etc.

but often we hear the word destiny come up as if it is something one cannot escape. obi-wan and the emperor, in particular, use it a LOT. but again, in the end, it is all determined by conscious choice to do things. nowhere else is this more clearly illustrated than in anakin's choice to return to the light side. we see him look back and forth between his master and his son. we see his struggle to choose between the two, and in the end, he chooses to "do the right thing", quoting the movie of same name, lol.

EDIT: i should add, in doing so, he becomes the chosen one, simply because he is in the right place at the right time.

 

I am currently reading the Dune books by Frank Herbet and there are some ideas about prophecy in them that I think might be relevant to this whole chosen one debate. When you have a prophecy you see a vision of the future. However now that you know what is going to happen in the future you adjust your actions accordingly and so the future actually changes. Remember what Yoda said: ?always in motion is the future.? So the prophecy shows you a future but because you?ve seen the prophecy you actually end up with a different future. If you record and publish your prophecy and if people believe it, then the effect is even greater. If this were to apply to Star Wars then what we are seeing in the movies is actually different to what the prophet saw in his/her vision. That means that in the vision Anakin was a great hero and saviour of the universe but we see him turn into Darth Vader. So try imagining what the Star Wars universe would have been like if the prophecy had never been made. Try and see if we can imagine a way where by removing the prophecy we allow Anakin to become the hero he was meant to be instead of becoming Darth Vader.

It?s entirely possible that if it weren?t for the prophecy then Anakin would never have been trained in the first place. Sure he still would have had the high midichlorian count, but he was too old. Remember the main reason why Qui-Gon is so adamant about training Anakin is because if he is the chosen one then the galaxy is going to need him.
QUI-GON : ?He is the chosen one...you must see it?.
Even when he was dying he couldn?t stop talking about Anakin:
QUI-GON : ?He is the chosen one...he will...bring balance...train him?!
If there were no prophecy then they wouldn?t even realise that they would need Anakin. All Anakin would be is a boy with an unusually high midichlorian count and since he?s too old there might not be much point in training him. After all, the galaxy seems peacefull at this point. If Anakin hadn?t been trained then he would have remained a slave on Tatooine and would never left his mother. Also he would have become a bigger version of that nice little boy we see in TPM. Then when Palpatine brings about the fall of the republic, Anakin would somehow learn to harness his natural abilities and become the savior of the galaxy. But instead because they all know of the prophecy Anakin becomes arrogant, and we?ve seen this in the trailers:

MACE: ?The boy has exceptional skills?.
OBI-WAN: ?His abilities have made him arrogant?.
then
ANAKIN: ?It's all Obi-Wan's fault! He's holding me back?!
PADMÉ: ?You're not all-powerful, Ani?.
ANAKIN: ?Well, I should be! Someday I will be the most powerful Jedi ever?.

So rather than focusing on the reality of what is, he allows himself to get caught up in his own prophecy and in what he thinks he should be. Remember what Yoda said about Luke: ?Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph?. Qui-Gon seemed to be saying the same thing at the start of TPM:

QUI-GON : ?Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now where it belongs?.
OBI-WAN : ?Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future??
QUI-GON : ?.....but not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan?.

He also said: ?always remember, your focus determines your reality?. So it seems that if it weren?t for the prophecy then Anakin would have been focusing on the moment but instead he gets carried away with this idea that he is going to save the galaxy. That leads to complacency and arrogance which make it much easier for him to be seduced by the dark side.In the end Anakin is still the chosen one, he just wasn't anywhere near the saviour he could have been. At least that's my theory.