Is Anakin's birth what destroys the "balance in the force"?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by PoodooWarrior, Sep 27, 2005.

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  1. PoodooWarrior Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2005
    star 1
    We learn that there have been two Sith lords secretly since the defeat of the Sith by the Jedi generations before TPM. In this time the Jedi have maintained peace and order through their use of the force. Suddenly, in TPM things are getting clouded in the force which the Jedi claim to be out of balance. They say Anakin is the chosen one who will restore balance to the force. But perhaps the prophecy is missread--everything was fine until this period--what has changed? Anakins birth! Actually it is the coming of the "chosen one" that throws everything out of wack. Palpatine already existed and things were still ok, when TPM starts, Anakin is already 9, so things have been shifting already for 9 years. Balance is restored when Palpatine is destroyed, but at virtually the same time, Anakin/Vader dies. So perhaps it is really Anakin's presence that causes the imbalance in the force and Qui-Gon and the Jedi should have realized this and not trained Anakin, but rather hid him from the Sith or better yet, though not the Jedi way, killed him and there never would have been an empire!
  2. Father_Time Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2003
    star 2

    I'm pretty syure there was imbalance before Anakin was born.

  3. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    Wow, that is actually a very valid point.

    Because the Sith have been secretly maintaining their order since their supposed destruction. They have been alive and well for many hundreds of years. In fact they never went away. And yet the Republic was maintained, with peace and justice ruling for the majority of that period. True, the Republic was being corrupted at the time of TPM, but for the vast, vast majority of the time of the Sith's secret existance, things are fine. Then one day The Chosen One is born, by the force itself. Suddenly things begin to shift. The Republic grows corrupt, so much so that in twenty years there will be a Seperatist Movement. And to top it off, the Sith Master becomes ruler of the government, which in turn causes the jedi to conversely begin to lose their power. The Sith Lord finally becomes ruler of the galaxy, and The Chsoen One joins him and destroys the jedi. Finally The Chosen One dies, and things return to the way they were before. That is very interesting.

    But consider what is more likely that is happening. The Sith are simply growing in power--Palpatine. For hundreds of years the sith have existed in secret and things have been fine in the galaxy. But what are the Sith doing? Nothing, they are waiting and passing on their knowledge to their students. Finally they cease their waiting--they begin acting. Enter Darth Sidious. Palpatine becomes a politician, eventually become the Senator of an entire planet, while at the same time organizing the Trade Federation and beginninig his plan to TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE. Finally he ascends to Supreme Chancellor, where he enacts stage two of his plan, eventually securing himself--and the SITH--their own personal army, and becomes dictator. He wipes out the jedi and as he says it, "once more the sith will rule the galaxy." Then, many years later, he dies, and things return to normal again.

    I think it is simply a coincidence that the rise of Darth Sidious as supreme sith ruler of the universe happens to match up with the birth of The Chosen One. In fact, Sidious' plans would have begun even before Anakin was born. So looking at it this way, The Chosen One was created to STOP the sith.
  4. PoodooWarrior Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2005
    star 1
    Unless the creation of the chosen one really was Palpatine's doing and he was telling the truth about "manipulating the midichlorians"--if he was the Sith who "force-raped" Shmi to create the chosen one, etc. This is what he needed to do to destroy the balance of the force--he created Anakin who destroys the balance--an "unnatural act" indeed.
  5. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    ^I think that's an interesting possiblity, Anakin being "cause and effect" all in one.

    What exactly is "balance of the Force"? The Sith were around before Anakin, but they weren't considered the cause of the imbalance...
  6. Father_Time Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2003
    star 2

    I think the Jedi didn't know why the Force was out of balance, thinking the Sith have been extinct for 1000 years.

    But then, all of a sudden, Qui-gon returns saying the Sith have been around all this time AND he has discovered the Chosen One.

    At least the Jedi used logic once in the PT, and realized the Force isn't in balance yet because the Sith have been hiding this whole time.

    "You were the Chosen One! You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them!"

  7. jedimaster11 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 2
    Balance to the Force (from view of the Jedi) is constantly referred to the cloud of the dark side increasing and the return of the Sith. Look at all the references about the prophecy and bringing balance to the Force - it's all "destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force". Anakin's birth has nothing to do with it...Sidious starting his plot in motion is what knocks the Force out of balance. The Force being out of balance starts in TPM with the Trade Federation's blockade and Obi-Wan sensing something "distant and more elusive" on the federation ship. It continues over the time that Dooku turns and kills Sifo-diyas, and is completely evident when Yoda and Mace discuss their diminished ability to see things using the Force in AOTC.

    [face_peace]
  8. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    So what other reasons could there be for imbalance, besides the Sith?
  9. cymbalmonkey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2005
    star 1
    It seems to me, in TPM, that the Jedi don't even realize the force is "out of balance" ... if they felt it was, Mace wouldn't doubt so harsely the possible return of the Sith ... they thought everything was great, and going as usual ... it's only after the Sith reveal themselves that the dark side begins to cloud the Jedi, and their ability to use the force "diminishes." ... it's not Anakin's birth, which occured 9 years before TPM that creates the imbalance of the force, it's the return of the Sith in TPM, and thus afterwards the darkside begins to cloud the galaxy ....
  10. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Throughout the Saga Palpatine is shown as a master planner. The entire Saga is his chess board!

    I don't believe Anakin's birth caused the imbalance, I believe it was Palpatine. Palpatine is a very determined individual and waited for the right time to spring his plan to take over the Senate/Galaxy. Enter Chosen One. Anakin was born to counteract this new threat and eventually destroy it.

    Anakin's birth was a reaction, not a cause.
  11. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    I think there's simply not enough information to make a conclusive statement about this.

    And that's what's so cool about it.
  12. ShadowOfThePast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2005
    star 1
    I don't believe that Anakin's birth distroy's the balance and I believe that in essence the balanced the force at the end of ROTS. Before then there were hundreds if not thousands of jedi against two sith. At the end of ROTS there are two jedi and two sith. 2=2 thats a balance equation two remaining sith, Vader and Palpatine vs. two remaining jedi Yoda and Obi. The thing is the sith have an unfair advantage in their army of clone troopers and control of the universe. Infact at the end of ROTJ Vader unbalances the force again when he distroyed the last two sith, himself and Palpatine. But had Anakin not balanced the force in ROTS then perhaps it would have been maul or doku or even palpatine himself, the jedi misunderstood the prophecy to mean distruction of the sith and not balancing of the force. Thats just my take on it.

    Shadow
    ~Fear not your waking enemies, trust not your sleeping allies.
  13. iLoveAnakin7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2005
    star 5
    The force was NOT balanced at the end of Rots...for the 50000th time balance of the force means NO SITH!!!!!! It was balanced at the end of ROTJ when Palps and Vader were destroyed, hence NO SITH and end of the saga
  14. DARTH-SHREDDER Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2005
    star 5
    What, I started a thread that basically asked the same question a couple months ago,a nd nobody knew what the hell I was talking about!!

    I agree with Zombie, that once Palpatine started his master plan and started to actually use the dark side more, that brought the imbalance to the force, and that's why Anakin was coincidentally born shortly thereafter.
  15. ShadowOfThePast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2005
    star 1

    iLoveAnakin7 perhaps you have misinterpered the meaning of balance. To understand that first we must understand the force. The force is neither evil nor good, if it were only good then the Sith couldn't use it, and it it were only evil then the Jedi couldn't use it. So the force just is, and balanced means what other than equalility, There is not good with out evil there is no light without dark, Yin and Yang one might say. Thus the force is only balanced when the light side and the darkside are in essence equal, eg the end of ROTS.

    Shadow
    ~Fear not your waking enemies, trust not your sleeping allies.
  16. Father_Time Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2003
    star 2

    Sorry, but that is wrong. George Lucas has said MANY MANY MANY times that Anakin Skywalker brings balance to the Force when he kills Palpatine and does away with the Sith the end of ROTJ.

    The Sith disrupt the harmony of the Force. They abuse both the creative and destructive powers of the Force. They are a "cancer" to the galaxy.

  17. ShadowOfThePast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2005
    star 1
    Sorry Father_Time, perhaps I am mistaken, but, I thought that Lucas said Good won over Evil at the end of ROTJ, which I wholy accecpt, as the only remaining force user was a good Jedi. Yet logically that is not balance. Perhaps you see where I am comming from, perhaps not, but the only way I see balance at the end of ROTJ is if you do not consider Luke a Jedi which is quite possible as he has far less training that the original jedi and so the equation has been balanced twice, two to two at the end of ROTS and Zero to Zero at the end of ROTJ. That is the only possibility I can see for balance at the end of ROTJ and that takes one thinking that a non-Jedi defeated a Sith (Luke over Vader) so that a true Jedi could sacrifice himself to defeat a Sith Master (Anakin over Palpatine), quite a streach IMO. Perhaps I'm just wrong with no justification, hey you never know right.

    Shadow
    ~Fear not your waking enemies, trust not your sleeping allies.
  18. iLoveAnakin7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2005
    star 5
    No offense but I didn't misinterpret anything because I'm right. When we talk about balance of the force we aren't talking numbers here. If it was so balanced at the end of Rots then why was it such a dark time?? Why did Yoda and Obi-Wan have to hide eh? Why was the rest of the galaxy is such turmoil? Did you ever notice the celebration at the end of ROTJ??? Gee I wonder why...
    I'll say it again balance to the force =no sith
  19. ShadowOfThePast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2005
    star 1
    iLoveAnakin7 you simply don't understand or don't want to understand what I am trying to say here. Perhaps it is because you and I have a different point of view on what balance is, you see balance as absolute good controlling the force, I see it as shall we say equality. If good controlls the force absolutely then how are we at balance? Perhaps I am playing Palpatines Advocate but if there is no darkness or shadow eg the sith, then there is nothing, we can not see without shadow. Therefore I see balance as neutrality between the Jedi and the Sith where their powers are equal none greater than the other, for that is what balance is is it not, equality?

    Shadow
    ~Fear not your waking enemies, trust not your sleeping allies.
  20. Father_Time Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2003
    star 2

    You think balance of the Force is balance between the good side and the dark side. It isn't, that's where your misunderstanding.

    It is talking about a balance of nature. You know, like "The Circle of Life" if you've ever seen the Lion King. Keeping the forces of nature balanced and in check.

    The Sith were stopping it, screwing up the balance. Life is being destroyed that shouldn't be, life is being created that shouldn't be, life is being preserved that shouldn't be.

    Balance=Good.
    Imbalance=Evil.

    You know how Episode I was about symbiosis, two things working together for mutual advantage of the other? Well, the Sith are not like that, they are parasites: not giving, only taking.

    George Lucas himself has said this, that balance equals no Sith. I'm sure a mod or someone else will be able to find the quotes for you sometime, I'm too tired right now.

    Just know that we're not attacking you, we just have evidence that says your idea of balance is wrong.

  21. iLoveAnakin7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2005
    star 5
    I understand what you are saying, but you are wrong by Lucas standards, again no offense.
  22. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Lucas has said countless times that Balance in the Force means no Sith.

    In the case of Star Wars, balance is not equal and opposite forces, instead it's the elimination of the bad and unnatural in The Force.
  23. ShadowOfThePast Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2005
    star 1
    If I am mistaken could you please show me where within the movies balance of the force is discribed as the distruction of the Sith? Perhaps I have missed something within their scripts.

    On that note I believe I have found where balance indeed has been reached after ROTJ by my theory of balance combining with your realization of the force being balanced there. Luke used the dark side to defeat Vader and the Light to resist Killing him, with Yoda and Obi already dead and when the Emporer and Vader die there remains only one, neither Light nor Dark. That is Luke.

    Also I take no offence to your comments as I knew before I posted that if I were to take this route I would infact be going against what many hold as fact. It is said that the easiest way to make enemies is to try to change something. People's way of thinking is something so in essence that is what I am doing.

    Shadow
    ~Fear not your waking enemies, trust not your sleeping allies.
  24. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Let's keep all the "Balance = No Sith" Discussion in ShadowofthePast's already existing thread.
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