ST Is anyone coming down from a TFA high?

The Empire Strikes Back wasn't nominated for Best Picture, either. What does that tell us about its quality? Nothing. Sometimes, the Academy drops the ball.

 

The excitement has not faded one bit since I saw the first teaser. This movie is part of my life now.

 

I absolutely love how you changed this from "most people here and around the world" to "they didn't get many Oscar nominations" when asked for evidence of this supposed backlash

 

When exactly did I state that there was a "backlash"? Who asked me to provide "evidence" of this porported backlash? Seriously, please stop responding with such unfettered nonsense.

 

To be honest I don't read too much into awards myself but as it was brought into this debate I thought it was a relevant point with regards to your JW/KOTCS comparison.
With regards to your point that theTFA is not regarded greatly outside SW fans...mmm...once again I have to disagree. TFA was awarded many 4/5 star reviews here in the UK from many respected film critics. Surely, they would not heaping praise on the movie if they did not consider it "great".
On top of that, I have had countless chats with people in my personal circles with zero emotional investment with SW who loved the film and raved about it. I would never use such a limited pool of opinion to form an argument but reading these boards over the last 4 weeks, it seems I was not alone in experiencing such a positive reaction from friends and family that are not SW "fans".

 

I asked you. I've asked you several times to provide even an ounce of evidence that perception of this film has changed over time for the worse. And then after I asked you to provide this evidence your response changes to "it wasn't nominated for any major oscars". Oscars that it wasn't even eligible for because they didn't send out screeners - which is besides the point anyway. Where is this evidence that people who love this film are in the minority.

 

It all depends on how one likes to slice the lemon. If one wants to quantify popularity, look at box office receipts. If one wants to quantify how a film is perceived technically/artistically, relative to its peers, then look at the major award ceremonies and the nomination process. Clearly TFA is popular. Does that mean the industry believe it's one of the best films of all time? I'd say no. The evidence suggests that they don't even consider it to be one of the best films of 2015. Does it mean they are wrong? Possibly... But I don't think there's much mileage in offering empirical evidence of TFA's technical/artistic merits, and then ignoring what the industry itself believes.

 

TFA is eligible for the Oscars... as it is the BAFTA's. Google 'The Force Awakens derivative', 'Abrams defends The Force Awakens'. Have a look on these boards, where most sensible posters are willing to acknowledge the films flaws, regardless of whether they like it/love it or not. Blindly loving this film and thinking it faultless appears to be the exception.

 

The more I watch it, the better I like it. I think, my first viewing was tainted by my pre-conceived exceptions of what I wanted and was hoping for, largely based on memories of the OT from my childhood. Once I watched and came back I was able to see it more objectively and having seen it before could watch closer for little things I missed.

I agree that the more I see it, the more I like it. It's like visiting an old friend you haven't seen in years. At first things may be a bit awkward until they start to seem more familiar and pretty soon it's like you've never been apart.

 

I think you didn't read that poster's words very carefully, PJ. It's clearly trolling:

There's criticism, and then there's baiting. You're smart enough to know the difference.

 

You're basing that on what, exactly? We could do a formal survey, if you like. But in looking through all the threads here, I've seen far, far more posters express an increasing appreciation for TFA with each viewing, than the opposite. I think your assessment simply doesn't hold water.

 

So you think my perception is incorrect based on your perception? I gotta say, I have more confidence in mine...

 

You know you're just making stuff up out of whole cloth.

I can only think of one poster who started off loving TFA, and has since started to like it less. There may be a few people I'm missing, but it has to be a low number. On the other hand, I have read countless variations of the lines "I like it more with each viewing," or "it has amazing rewatchability" or "I see more depth to it each time I see it." Hundreds of posts along those lines.

Your desire for this film to decrease in the estimation of fans is simply not playing out, no matter how much you want that to happen.

 

Not really. I believe you are conflating a couple of points. I think there is you and a few others who believe TFA is one of the greatest things ever. You have been consistent in that appraisal. There's a whole bunch of others who sit in the middle. Most others seem to have moderated their language and seem open to discussing things the film doesn't do well, even if they still like the film. You seem to think that I'm positioning this as people who liked TFA are now changing their opinion to dislike. Not true. That's reflective of your prejudices and not mine. My perception is that many seem to be taking a more pragmatic/sensible approach to assessing the film (something I don't think was nesersarily the case 1st week). That you seem to think fellow members, who may very well like the film, wouldn't take a more moderate approach, or aren't being more moderate several weeks later, seems counter productive to your argument.

 

Ever since the last trailer came out I've been absolutely crazy about Star Wars. It's truly my favorite movie franchise and I don't think my interest will ever die out.

 

No, no. I'm saying that there's a much greater number of people who started off lukewarm, slightly disappointed or generally positive about TFA, who have enjoyed it more with each viewing, than people who went in the opposite direction. That's all.

Of course people are settling into discussing its flaws and its strengths. That's a natural "settling" that happens with any film. But for whatever reason, you seem to keep insisting that this "settling" primarily skews towards the negative. In your own words:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have not heard you concede that another phenomenon is happening, which is related to the above.

Namely, that a number of people have, over time, recognized a lot that the film does do well, that they didn't see initially (that includes me, as I was underwhelmed/ disoriented after my first viewing).

For whatever reason, there's a curious implacability on your side of the fence. You cannot budge towards the "the film does a number of things well" side of the fence, yet you expect others to move closer to your "actually, the film does a number of things poorly" side of the fence. And then, you fabricate a scenario whereby there are far more people moving towards your side of the fence, than in the opposite direction. Objectively, that's just...not happening. It's a vaporous claim.

Finally, it is this air of contempt that's the problem with some of the more strident positions on the forum, IMO. Including yours.

It's the perspective that it's more respectable or more rational to become more critical of TFA over time, than it is to further appreciate the nuances of the film over time.

That's nonsense, and it's one of the main reasons why so much criticism of TFA on this forum has been labeled "bashing." Because a loud few have been implacable in their approach, and have adopted an air of contempt for those who enjoy and appreciate TFA.

Ironically, it looks and smells exactly like the "prequel-bashing" you and others have been so defensive about. It is, in short, implacably contemptuous.

 

I see no evidence of that. In fact the opposite.

The ability/the willingness to critically appraise something does not automatically skew to the negative. Being able to assess each element, on its own merit, and use that to provide a wider understanding/appreciation, is fundamental to a balanced approach. You seem to be the other end of the spectrum, where critique is frowned upon and viewed as something demonstrably negative. I believe that's a view shared by most extremists. I find it quite unsavoury in truth.

Not sure that's correct. I seem to recall you being overly enthusiastic in your initial comments after first seeing it. And again, you're purposely conflating several elements to build a superficial point of contention. There's a world of difference between the fawning seen in the first few days, and those who are just articulating what they appreciate/like/dislike about the film. My view is that, generally, we've moved away from the former to the latter. Of course you will view that as negative.

Hmmm - When that comes from someone who spends more time in the so called 'haters' thread than I and many others do, you'll have to excuse me for questioning your veracity. I just don't believe you. There's something distinctly suspect about that behaviour. I find it a bit strange in fact... that you must try and defend every criticism, in every thread like your life depended on it.

 

I appreciate your comments about FB. It's a different environment to communicate in. This is a well organized managed forum with strong comments and ideas from a lot of dedicated fans. Forums around a topic of interest, seem to be this way in general, or at least the ones I am in. Something happens in FB. I am a fan of a musical group and tried to be part of the community. I flopped there. The conversations tend to be superficial. If I dared challenge the status quo, a squad of fans would come along and chastise other fans for speaking there mind. It was very controlling by self appointed "leaders". There's a lot of borrowing of original ideas, postings, etc....strange, unfriendly environment. I am used to a different level of interaction. This format works for me

 

Darth PJ

Of course. However, it was you who defined a movement toward a "critical appraisal" of TFA as predominately negative. Your own words:

Secondly, you have time and again indicated that only a critical movement towards the negative is sensible. Again, your own words:

Preceded by:

And not to mention:

This is clearly a contemptuous attitude toward anyone who would critically move in a more positive direction about TFA with time. You are personally "defining" the spectrum, and therefore defining what is and what is not "moderate" within that spectrum. And so, for you, a "moderate approach" is one that's far more critical of the film than might be the case, say, among the broader fan base. But since you don't like the film, you are defining the boundaries of sensibility. It's unnecessarily contemptuous, and for what it's worth, deliberately ignores what's happening on this forum. Which is that most people seem to enjoy the film more with time, and successive viewings. Hundreds of posts to that effect, if you'd like me to dig all of them up.

Third, you consistently accuse me of blindly gushing about the film, without presenting any criticisms. Again, your own words:

This is evidence of your poor observation skills (or the kind of selective reading that makes your faulty arguments easier to make). In any event, here is a list of my "blind adulation" and "defense of every criticism". Oh, wait...wrong list. This is a list of some of my criticisms just over the past few days. Does this make me "sensible," after all?

JabbatheHumanBeing said:

 

Saw it a fourth time today and still love it. BTW, was actually pleasantly surprised that the theater was two thirds full on the movies fifth weekend of release.

 

4th time for me today as well, and our theater was filled to capacity. And it was not a small theater.

Honestly, I don't know if I'll come down from the TFA "high". Repeat viewings will keep that from happening.

 

I've seen it twice. It fell flat quickly in the first viewing for me. For those that loved it, just slow down a bit if you start second guessing it. Anything viewed too often too quickly will start to lose your interest. Or, you might start noticing my issues with the film.

 

same but i found the books and now i am back into the SW universe again

 

HAHA, this is always my favorite line of argument from people about any movie they don't like. "Well, you have to admit, it's VERY flawed. Don't get me wrong, it's fun, but it's flawed." That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. That's the great thing about America and about the Internet -- you can have whatever opinion you want, really. But we don't have to share it.

I love TFA and I don't find it flawed in the least, except that it ends too early because now I have to wait 18 months for Episode VIII. There are room for all opinions, but I'm always kind of interested how the detractors argue. I rarely see this line of argument from people who love the prequels or who love TFA. I've actually never seen it, to be frank. Nobody says, "If you didn't love TFA, you are clueless," or "Even if you didn't love it, you have to admit TFA is a flawless movie." Nobody says that. Everyone just says what they like about it and how much they enjoyed it, and then we have the trolls -- which is what you are if you're being negative about a movie other people like for no reason other than to whine -- who insist on saying, "Well you have to admit it actually sucks as a movie," blah blah.

Nobody has to admit anything, actually. There's nothing to admit. TFA is a great film and to me a masterpiece.

 

TFA is one of the best Star Wars films ever made (number one or two, I have not decided yet) and one of the very best fantasy films ever made.

There is no comedown from any high here. This film is part of this immortal franchise, and one of its finest examples.

By the way, the Academy are a bunch of old fa*ts.