Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Mace Windy, Feb 12, 2003.
My gosh. That must stink.
I agree the whole duel and its music felt rather choppy. I know John Williams wouldn't have scored it like that if he was given a leisurely amount of time to score it.
Compared to the music in ESB's duel, the AOTC one is too subdued and even bordering on generic. I was dissapointed with the use of Yoda's theme as well -- I love the theme, but when they play it in the movie it doesn't have nearly the same emotion in it as it did when Yoda brought Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp in ESB.
I think it's pretty safe to say that yoda's theme wasn't meant to express any where near as much emotion in AOTC as it does in TESB.
The importance of his role is is being built up in the PT as is the use and development of his theme. So by the time we reach empire and it looks like all is lost because of luke's failed attempt to raise his x-wing, hearing yoda's theme played in all it's glory will have much more of an emotional impact than it does already.
Plus, the X-wing scene was a much longer sequence than the pillar sequence. In the ESB scene, Yoda's theme had much more time to expand and essentially gain momentum.
yes, there is a draft in here!
I really liked the music. I especially love the chorus from the point Dooku salutes to when Yoda ignites his saber. I was very disappointed to not hear it on the cd.
But if you wanna talk about dissapointing scores, talk about the arena battle! I mean come on! It's the beginning of the Clone Wars and the fall of the Republic and we get "Anakin Vs. Sebulba"? Why Lucas, why????
//ignores already debated-to-death topic of clone war//
anywho, I have been holding off from posting until I had some time to sit with the scene and really dig.
my first reaction was that of Windy...that the music was trite and more of a sound effect than music (for the entire duel section, not just Yoda). However, in looking deeper in Yoda's dual, I decided I really like it. And here is why:
first off, the clip itself is way to short to have any type of development of another theme, and any use of some other SW music would sound like it was just thrown in to the scene. We would quickly find ourselves complaining about that...
Second...the choral chord (try saying that 10x fast...). In the entire duel, there is a vocal chord that just holds through the entire thing. This creates a stagnant feel, as there is no harmonic motion for the sequence. However, what we get in return is just a feeling of another worldly, ancient...force, for lack of a better world. When Yoda fights, it is not just a person that Dooku is going against, but he is going against the raw power of the good side of the force! Seeing that this may be the only time that we see Yoda fight onscrene, I love the fact that his battle stands out from any other on screen fight...
and, the 30 seconds or so of static power I think is the reason why all of you love the moment when Yoda's theme is cued up. Think about it...if we had fast exciting music prior, when Yoda's theme comes in it would actually slow down the pace of musical emotion. Just like the idea of tension and release in pacing, musically JW builds tension, and the stark difference of that and the grandness of Yoda's theme makes it that much more grand.
my vote is that it rocks
EDIT: too early to type...
Excellent point, Tenor.
That transition to Yoda's theme highlights the decision he is forced to make -- let Dooku escape to save Obi-Wan & Anakin. He chooses to save his friends, just like Luke in ESB (although Yoda's training is complete )
ohhhh, good call! I never thought of that.
come to think of it, when you think about that decision in light of Obi yelling at Anakin, it seems like Anakin should have chosen to help padme...hmmmmm
I liked the Yoda duel music. I am more concerned about the music when Anakin and Count Dooku are battling it out. The music doesn't feel right, most likely because of the unfair chopping of the actual fight.
perhaps that was just the teaser duel, setting the ground for a much bigger duel in the next one (a la ANH and ESB)...
I can only hope they JW bridges the gap well between EP3 & ANH. I would love to hear more combinations of OT themes. I was a little disappointed with the fight scene. I like the hushed silence in the trailer as the camera dollies around Yoda & the lightsabre flies to his hand.
I loved it until it came to the duel. It wasn't Williams' fault, it was the editing which made AOTC not as good as it could have been (yes just by the music editing!)
In my opinion....
GK edit: Your opinion had nothing to do with the topic, which is music. Please don't come trolling in here.
I like Tenor_Apprentice's view. I really liked the music there just because it seemed "right" and now that he has explained it, I see why. Thanks, Tenor_Apprentice!.
The music during the ROTJ duel is epic. The duels in ANH and TESB have next to no music at all.
Why didnÂ´t anyone complain about that?
The reason that I don't complain, Lare_Muul, is that I believe that the duels in ANH and ESB differ greatly from the duel in AOTC. In Hope and Empire the duels are mostly psychological. While there is certainly a physical aspect to these duels, the real blunt of the situation is being played out within the character's minds.
Conversly, in AOTC, the duel is all physical. It was designed to be fast paced and glitzy. I feel that the music should reflect this energy - just as the lack of music in ANH and ESB, keeps our minds on full alert, just as the protagonist's minds are on full alert.
this signature blows!
I can really see both sides on this one. I could go either way. I like what is there but I could see liking something more like what Windy is suggesting too.
I myself didn't have any trouble with the music because it fit the mood at that right moment, but it seemed chopped up. Count Dooku was to fight Yoda with two lightsabres, so that might explain why it sounds like it is about to stop so quickly.
Actually, I think the Yoda/Dooku duel and he ANH duel are comparable. The padawan has turned to the darkside, and now believes himself to be more powerful than his former master. And the master sacrifices the fight to save his younger proteges.
And since the ANH duel is basically unscored...
Does anyone else think that if JW rescored ANH (yes, I know, there's [link=http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9955564&replies=97]another thread[/link] for this ) he might now use similar types of vocals? Notice that since ANH, his use of vocals in the score has increased.
The music during the ROTJ duel is epic. The duels in ANH and TESB have next to no music at all. Why didnÂ´t anyone complain about that?
I can see the point of view of wanting a loud, crashing soundtrack while Yoda and Dooku are going at it. But given the precident set by most of the other duels of the saga, I don't think it would have fit. I'm perfectly happy with a subtle soundtrack for all three duels in the hangar.
But I also think that part of the problem is the editing of AOTC itself. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that the film (or at least Reel 6) went through quite a number of editing changes AFTER Williams recorded the film score. The editing required to keep the soundtrack in sync with the film caused a lot of problems, musically speaking. I'm sure the subtle music during the duels would have made more sense to us had it been a natural progression from the beginning of the Clone War on.
I just dislike the duel in general. It was great the first time I saw it, but now that it's on DVD it gets worse and worse every time I watch it.
That being said, I honestly can't even remember the music during the scene. Why isn't there a music-only track on the DVDs? Duh, George!
I agree, the music in the TV commercial is great, though.
Add me to the "Didn't like the AOTC duel at all" list.
I don't care what kind of music you try to incorporate with it.
I am not sure, this scene was cool, but I am not so sure if the music went along with the motion. It had great visuals but I think lacked that extra "UMPH!" in music To catch my ears. I was mostly locked onto Yoda's cool moves. Perhaps that is why they didn't have the very fast paced music.