Is "Bilingual education" Racist?

I mentioned this in another thread, and I would still like an answer from both sides.

How else can you perceive the stance on ?English as a Second Language? policy in our schools for Hispanic children as being Racist and Bigoted?

Bilingual education for Spanish speaking kids is like saying: ?The Asian kids don?t have a problem learning English, the ?non-English? European kids don?t have a problem learning English? But poor Juan is just can't get it on he own.? I?ve spoken to a few Hispanic-Americans who I work with, and most agree? ?English as a second language? is wrong and insulting.

Could Bilingual education be responsible for perpetuating poverty in the Hispanic community?

 

If you offer it to just one group, yes it is racist. If it was made broad spectrum for every language out there then no it's not.

 

Possibly.

The fact is, one needs a good command of English to make it in the U.S. Those who are promoting a program that inhibits that are not doing the children any favors - and I don't care if they are Hispanic, Asian, or from any other country.

 

It's a shame really. It would be good if English speaking people were taught a second language from pre-school to high school. I don't even know a word of Gaelic, and i'm Irish! English speakers, when it comes to speaking other languages, are ignorant.

 

I think it's stupid to give it to one group but not the others. I think bilingual schools should only be for immigrants who can't speak English yet(or whatever the official language(s) is of the country)

I live in Texas, and I have a problem with people who would rather me learn Spanish over Mexican immigrants learning English. Sometimes when I tell someone I take French instead of Spanish, they say, "Why? You won't use French as much as you will Spanish." And my reply is that I'll only use Spanish more if I go work in a Spanish speaking country. I'm not going to learn Spanish just because not everyone speaks English.

 

I am a teacher at a Jr. High school in Phoenix. Before teaching there I taught high school Biology and Cheimstry for three years in Yuma, AZ. Is bilingual education racist ? To a certain degree it is. However, the people who speak spanish think that they are being helped. When in reality they are being harmed. They don't see this. Not only is the education side at fault, but society as well. Almost every single place of business in the state of Arizona has everything translated into spanish. So why does a spanish speaker need to learn english? He/she doesn't.

As an educator I have really been able to see how bilingual education has harmed the education of not just spanish speakers but that of native english speakers as well. The level of education in the schools has been lowered to a level such that the students who do not understand english or who are learning english may pass. This keeps native speakers from learning at the level they should be at. For example, I am originally from Missouri. The information I was learning in the 5th grade is what I was teaching to 9th and 10th graders in Arizona.

Bilingual education only refers to those kids who speak spanish. In the school I am at now, the kids who came to this country knowing a language other than spanish have within 2-3 years mastered english. However, there are students who have lived their entire lives in the U.S. and yet they have yet to learn english. Why? Because their parents haven't had to because everything is in spanish everywhere. The foreign students who have learned english are excelling. While those who have spoken spanish all their lives continue to struggle.

The political correctness of our society is out of control. Many people and too many politicians are concerned with being P.C. that they fail to look at what is good for the people of the United States of America. I will be running for President in the year 2012 and I am going to rid the country of everything translated into a language other than english. Forcing people to learn the language is the only way to ensure that our young people won't continue to graduate from high school with only a 5th grade education. At the school in Yuma, the educational level is so low, one is able to graduate without being able to speak, write, or understand english!

I know this is long, but I feel very strongly about this topic. I wish more people out there would speak up if they feel as I do.

 

Knowing other languages is fine and dandy, but it helps immensely when one knows the common language of the nation well.

No one ought to skimp on English in the US; it is easier for everyone to have a common language.

Take the Star Wars Universe for example. They have many languages that they speak, but they all, with the exception of Jabba it seems, know Basic (aka English). This is the way it ought to be.

 

Bilingual education for Spanish speaking kids is like saying: ?The Asian kids don?t have a problem learning English, the ?non-English? European kids don?t have a problem learning English? But poor Juan is just can't get it on he own.? I?ve spoken to a few Hispanic-Americans who I work with, and most agree? ?English as a second language? is wrong and insulting.

Many "Juan"s are also costing the government money when they require documents in spanish and translators for various activities. Since there are quite a few Hispanics in the United States, the government would want to teach them English to make things easier; more on themselves than the Hispanics.

 

The government isn't the only one loosing money. When you get down to it, we, the tax payers are the ones loosing money. We loose money because our tax dollars are being used to fund translations of everything and provide translators. I also believe that our retail prices are higher because every store in AZ has everything translated into spanish. They have to raise their prices to fund the translations. Therefore, I loose money!!!

 

When you get down to it, we, the tax payers are the ones loosing money.

Yeah. No doubt the government would rather be spending your money on weapons and other military related expenses.

 

Take the Star Wars Universe for example. They have many languages that they speak, but they all, with the exception of Jabba it seems, know Basic (aka English). This is the way it ought to be.

Actually Jabba understands Basic. He usually chooses not to speak it (read Shadows of the Empire for some more background) but that's outside the point.

Many "Juan"s are also costing the government money when they require documents in spanish and translators for various activities. Since there are quite a few Hispanics in the United States, the government would want to teach them English to make things easier; more on themselves than the Hispanics.

"Quite a few" is 30+ million, now making Hispanics the largest minority group in the United States. Now I might add that there are many Hispanic children who struggle in their studies in the U.S. (the vast majority are the children of immigrants) but there are schools that have volunteers to take them under their wing to teach them English one-on-one, or in small groups.

I honestly don't see what's racist about bilingual education. Whatever it takes to ensure that students get equal opportunities, I'm all for it, and that includes having a Spanish-speaking teacher instruct them until they feel comfortable that their students can go to an English-speaking class.

What's more prejudiced is (as stated earlier) how many students are expected to know a certain amount of English, but they don't. Granted, English is a very difficult language to learn, but it'd be a lot easier on the student if he or she is say, 6 or 7 years old as opposed to 14.

I've read that kids are inherently born to learn multiple languages, but as they mature, this ability decreases, and by the time they hit adolescence they generally have an accent when speaking their second language if they just started learning it.

GO 'CLONES!

 

The primary language of a country where you live should be your first language, no matter where you come from. Anything else is secondary.

 

It would be good if English speaking people were taught a second language from pre-school to high school.

Sadly, it can't work in reverse like that. Hundreds of countries learn English as a second language. What language do we English-speaking folk declare as "the one" to learn as a second language? Hell, we can't even educate our own people when it comes to English. There are foreigners who have a better grasp of English than some Americans.

I've always looked at bilingual education as a bonus, allowing someone to become more cultured. And I can see the other side of the argument, but I think one should have at least a decent grasp of the official language of the country in which they live.

And now to close with a light-hearted quote...

Moe: "You know what really aggrivases me? It's them immigints. They want all the benefits of livin' in Springfield, but they ain't even bothered to learn themselves the language."
Homer: "Yeah, those are exactly my sentimonies."

 

Well, I posted this on a different thread, but since this is the same topic more or less, here I go....

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I have said this story before, but why not again.

When I was in the first grade, I spoke fully billingual, in both english and spanish. I spoke well enough that I was in english only regular classes, whereas the vast majority of spanish speaking students were in ESL classes, to prepare them for their life time shaft of under education, bad language skills, introduction to gangs, and a lifetime of poor jobs was waiting for them.

During reccess, I was speaking to some of my friends who were in the ESL classes in spanish. THe principal heard me, and decided I should not be in an english regular class, pulled me, and put me in the ESL class.

The next day, my mother was at the school, furious. She did not want me in ESL classes, and flat out said that it would only put me on the downward path for my education. The Principal was adamant, she wanted me in ESL.

I probably heard my first swearing words around that time. At one point, the Principal challenged my mom that if she did not like it, to put me in private school. My mom's answer was to say no, she was going to Home School me instead.

I don't know why, but that caused a total turn around on the Principals part. She admitted me back to regular classes, and my mom ordered me to never speak spanish at school again.

Just about everyone that went into those ESL classes never got out of them. None of them ever did anything higher then remidial classes in high school. None of them went to college, too many of them ended up in gangs or in prison. None of them got good jobs or good futures as the result of ESL instruction.

I, on the other hand, was in the national honor society, I scored an 1190 on my SAT's, I got my degree from UCI, got a paying job as a congressional staffer.

You can never tell me that ESL gives spanish speaking people the same education as an english only education does.
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Let me first start by saying that I am a native Spanish speaker. I took English classes throught my school years but I mainly learned my English through watching cable as a kid. I have never lived in the States. The only time I have lived outside my country was a season I spent in Spain.

Right now, I am finishing an MA in English Lit (with a creative writing specialization) and I feel more comfortable writing in English than in Spanish. I am fully bilingual (which is defined by various things, including the ability to code switch and to think in two different languages) and use both languages as native languages. (And I attribute this to Bill Cosby and his Picture Pages, amongst other things. . .)

With that said, I think bilingual education is a good idea. Teaching English as a second language to a student whose native language is not English is the best way to teach them. But, it should not be limited to Spanish speakers. This is very stupid and it is damaging to non-Latinos. Teaching English as a second language is necessary for non native speakers. Unless they are lucky like me that they are exposed to a second language since they are infants, learning a second language is difficult.

I also think that ALL students should have bilingual education. Not only in the US, but everywhere in the world. Learning a second language broadens their horizon. It helps to understand other cultures. It also makes it easier to learn a third, fourth, ect language.

So, no. It is not racist, it is unfair in the sense that it is giving Latinos and advantage over not only other minorities but the WASP majority in the US.

 

I don't believe ESL or bilingual education itself is 'racist'...but I question the usefulness of it when applied to young kids.

From personal experience, as well as numerous studies done on this subject, young children acquire language at a remarkable rate. Well meaning Americans put these young children, some only 5, 6, 7 years old, who came from non-English speaking households, and place them in bilingual classes thinking this will help integrate them into American society.

In fact, this does nothing but harm them in the long run. The best way to learn a language is to immerse yourself in it. True, children will struggle for the first year or so, but they catch on quickly, and there is not much to catch up on in terms of schoolwork as their native their native-speaker counterparts are also learning to read and write in English.

I came to this country when I was six, and in one semester, I managed to move up one reading group in my class, by second grade, I was reading junior novels. I don't believe I have any natural aptitude for languages, but the fact that I was surrounded by English speakers 6 hours a day (and a couple hours of TV ) helped more then any ESL class.

I personally believe that non-English speaking children under 12 should be "thrown into the fire"...the quickest and most efficient way to learn the language.

For older children, learning another language will be much more difficult. I think they should spend a year on English-intensive classes before entering English-only classes. It's difficult, but I have seen it done given the right motivations.

But there is a difference between 'bilingual' education where everything is taught in one language with one class focused on teaching in English, and 'bilingual' education where both languages are used equally. If I ever had kids, I would love to send my kids to a truly bilingual school. Early immersion in any language is a easy way to pick up a skill that can be very useful later in life.

I think another language problem we experience in this country is teaching native speakers a foreign language. We start in middle school, which is really quite late to learn another language. If it is possible, children should be exposed to new languages at the elementary school level. They would be able to pick up the language much more easily, without an accent, and speak it fluently (if taught properly).

My two cents.

 

Isn't there an english immersion program out there now?

 

Isn't there an english immersion program out there now?

Yes, there are. But many bilingual programs do not allow for total immersion. Children in many of these classes spend most of their day learning their lessons in their native language, and a few classes in an "english-only" class. Hardly useful IMHO.

 

I hate bilingual education. It just seems so stupid if you never plan to travel abroad. I think America should declare an official language. I mean almost every other nation has one but us. We have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd languages and bullcrap like that.

 

I hate bilingual education. It just seems so stupid if you never plan to travel abroad. I think America should declare an official language. I mean almost every other nation has one but us. We have 1st, 2nd, and 3rd languages and bullcrap like that.

Actually many other nations have official "languages". If you go to Europe, there may be several languages spoken at school (including English).

But I believe it is shortsighted to disregard all language teaching as unnecessary. We live in a global community, and there are many jobs that require (or can be helped) by knowing another language. And the easiest way to learn a language and know it WELL is to be exposed at a young age.

On the opposite extreme of bilingual education, some immigrant parents actually forbid their children from speaking their native language at home in the mistaken belief that their children will have no need for it or knowing one language will hinder their understanding of a second one.

I believe that is a wasted opportunity. Most people do not know what they will be doing ten, twenty, thirty years down the line, and there is an increasing likelihood that language skills will come in handle in a number of jobs.

Even in this country, I find it useful in my job search. I may be in computers science, but quite a few jobs include the opportunity to go abroad for short bouts of time, NOT to travel, but to work for months at a time. There are also government jobs which sees language skills as a useful tool.

Also, learning a language is conducive to understanding another culture. The way a society functions, thinks, and operates can all be inferred from learning and understanding another language.

But my personal opinion is that learning the primary language of your home country should take precedent over learning any other language. I am NOT against learning languages in general.

Just my two cents.

 

If ESL is bilingual, then I think that my school has bilingual education (cuz my school has ESL).

Ok, that sounded VERY dorky. Anyway...

I think that people who can't speak English very well should not be placed in English regular classes. They should have the right to develop English skills in special classes. But they should not simply be aimed to not speak English for the duration of the time that they will stay in the United States. Let's face it; English is the unofficial language of the US, and why should these people be able to escape English while others who *might* be better at English have to go through it? It isn't fair.

As students, we seldom get the right to choose our academic bent. Why should people who are bad at English get this right? If I'm bad at science, does that mean I can avoid science and still graduate? No.

 

Except that bilingual classes usually don't focus on learning English. It is all about having the class in Spanish and making sure the Spanish speaking kids feel "comfortable". What you end up with is kids who are not proficient in Spanish OR English.

Quite frankly, there should be intensive English classes so that kids who don't speak English can "catch up". After that, they should be mainstreamed into regular English classes. Any language professor worth their salt will tell you that you don't know a language until you have to use it.

 

I think that Hispanic immigrants who cannot speak English should undergo up to a year of immersion (sp) in the English language before they attend school.

It is stupid to make students attend classes in English while they are taking introductory English. I know that I would definitely not be able to understand Spanish classes when I was in first and second year Spanish. Heck, I don't know how well I would do know and I am on my fourth year of Spanish.

Even if I was able to understand concepts in Spanish in my other classes during my fourth year in Spanish, I would have already entered into a downward spiral. This sort of thing happens all the time. People who have trouble reading barely shoot for passing grades. People who have a hard time with math become disenchanted. If I was sitting in school for two or more years not understanding anything but still being moved to the next grade, I would hate school and think nothing of having an education.

The current ESL programs are flawed. They have the Spanish speaking-children taking classes in English while teaching them English for only a short time during the day. This is dooming the Hispanics to failure.

As Yoda would say: Failure in education leads to poverty, povety leads to crime, and crime leads racism.

 

There is nothing wrong with bilingual education. It's a good thing, in fact. But its silly and not very feasible to try and make the majority of us speak another language, just because the minority of us speak only that language.

Personally, as an American, I think EVERY PERSON in the US should speak English. Face it, its our language. If I moved to another country, I wouldn't expect all those people to learn English so I won't be offended. I would learn their language. Those that don't learn English will only have problems later in life. Yes, you can get away with that in school - but not in a job.

As far as the method, it is a proven fact that immersion is the best way of doing this, even with adults. You have to be forced to cope, to learn. Otherwise you can just let yourself get away with reverting to your native tongue.

My two cents.

 

Face it, its our language.

Actually, it isn't. You borrowed it from some-place else.



- Scarlet.