ST Is Boba Fett really dead....?

I kind of wish he did die in ROTJ if for no other reason than poking fun at the whole Man with No Name thing. I think there's something essentially Star Wars in setting up a spaghetti Western Ultimate Badass only for him to exit the narrative by way of a comedic death scene. Can you imagine a vintage Eastwood character wailing and flailing like Fett? I can't, and little things like that are what makes Star War Star Wars.

 

Actually, I would buy this theory.

There are a few notable differences between his armor in ROTJ compared to his ANH cameo and TESB. Obvious real world explanation, but it could be used to their advantage to make it an in-universe thing, but the thing that makes me suspicious that the "it wasn't actually Boba" theory is the 2004 SE's. We know Morrison redubbed his lines in TESB, and he even offered to re-do the "What the- ahhhh!" for ROTJ, but.... they didn't let him. Either they considered it pointless (though it does irk me) or they really did have plans to make you think it's not Boba. Aside from this - Boba or whomever was wearing his armor made the same mistake Jango did - flying right down in front of a Jedi and aiming his gun at them. If it was really Boba, you'd think he would learn his lesson.

Or this happened

 

But see - and here's the thing that never fails to amuse the heck out of me, every time someone comes along, trying to be clever, and uses this little meme as an argument against Fett's survival...

Yeah, um... good 'ole Cliegg Lars, there? Oh, yeah, that's right - he was wrong. Shmi wasn't dead, now was she?

And until Lucasfilm says otherwise, neither is Boba Fett.

Those who claim otherwise are no different than Mr. Lars, up there. Making assumptions which are understandable, maybe, but also, ultimately incorrect. The day may well come when word comes from out of Lucasfilm's new Story Group which says that Fett is dead (and when it does, I'll be on board), but until that day, I'll take George Lucas' word for what he intends for his characters, thanks.

But by all means, people of the world, please, go right on ahead and keep using Cliegg. Life is hard enough, I can always appreciate a good laugh.

 

Oh calm down. He's just a bit character.

 

Lucasfilm showed Fett flailing and screaming into the gullet of a Sarlaac with absolutely zero indication that he survived. So yeah, Boba Fett is dead.

Words from Lucas on the matter for your reference:

Source: http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/fettpedia/George_Lucas

 

Oh, take some of Internet's advice and calm down.

I'm certainly not going to be pulled into talking Fett with the likes of you, my friend (though, to be perfectly honest, I do find it a tad curious that you keep posting in this thread, time and again, about your disdain for the character, how you think there are better candidates for a spin-off, etc., ad nauseam. We get it. We got it a couple of weeks ago. Honest). And yes, Lucas had considered placing a scene in the ROTJSE showing just that, and blah, blah, blah... But he's also, flat-out, said, "But he [Fett] didn't die". The available information is there to frame the discussion any which way you please.

Besides, @I-are-the-internets, I'm just having some fun. Some people like to take things so seriously all the time.

And my real point - you know, that it's pretty ridiculous for people to cite Cliegg Lars - still stands (unless BBP wants to take the time to try and source some comments in a Cliegg Lars fan club which supports his p.o.v.).

 

I don't see what the point of retconning Boba's background is. Seriously, if that's the kind of writing "genius" he's bringing to the table then I really hope they find a replacement for Kasdan fast. The concept is totally dreadful, and as TheBBP said it smacks of a cop out. What point does it serve to have the "real" Boba killed by "faux" Boba? As if that somehow restores some sense of "mystery" which surrounded the character. Newsflash, once Boba emerged from the Sarlacc in "Jawas of Doom,' starred in more comics and we later learned about Jango Fett, any mystery surrounding the character was gone... You're not getting that genie back in the bottle no matter how hard you try.

This is really beginning to sound a lot like the Star Trek "Prime" timeline vs the Star Trek "JJ" timeline. Just leave it alone. If you must, just tell a story about Boba on an epic hunt a few years before the events of ANH. Maybe he's been contracted by the Empire to hunt down Jedi... there are lots of possibilities.

But if the Kasdan Fett movie rumor is true I may just skip that movie(and I really can't believe I'm actually saying that)... sounds pretty unoriginal.


Yancy

 

Your childish and condescending argument aside, George Lucas never said that Boba Fett survived. I even provided his words for you. Even in the instance that he had considered adding a scene that showed him crawl out, he said ". . . it doesn't quite fit, in the end.".

Unless you have a source? When I google the quote that you shared "But he [Fett] didn't die", all that I get is a link to this thread.

 

I agree that it's a head-scratcher. I don't know what, precisely, would hope to be achieved, by taking such a route, and I'm not certain that it's the right course for the character. But that said, I'll give it points, at least, for surprising me.

Frankly, how you can call it "pretty unoriginal" is a bitbeyond me. Are you to say that when you envisioned the possible storylines for a Fett stand-alone, a twist such as this was even on your radar? Because I know I'm not willing to make such a claim!

To be honest, "a story about Boba on an epic hunt a few years before the events of ANH" sounds a lot less "original." That said, I think I like your simple tale better than (what was reported to be) LK's approach (like a lot of things, it would all come down to execution).

 

Let's be clear, most of the "mystique" created around Boba Fett was not created by Lucas or the films at all... it was mainly by fans and the sci-fi magazines of the late 70's early 80s. As far as marketing went Boba was described as the "most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy," but really he was little more than a hired gun brought in to capture Han Solo... and frankly he was a pretty poor shot given that he missed an easy kill shot on an unsuspecting Luke. Sure we speculated the hell out of that moment... "Did Boba intentionally miss?" "Was he driving Luke to Vader?" There's no evidence on screen of any of that... he heard Luke, didn't want to be followed so he took a quick shot at him and disappeared. But that's not good enough for fans; we build all this back story based on moments like that. In the end he was a minor villain in the OT... that's all.

I remember back in 82 or 83, there was this sci-fi magazine called Fantastic Films which had a huge speculation article about the Star Wars prequels... some really interesting ideas emerged from it... Anakin was going to start out as some sort of slave rescued by Obi-Wan, but the killer was speculation that Boba Fett was a clone and maybe a clone used to make Stormtroopers... They came to this assertion because 1) Stormtroopers were all the same height and 2) The most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy missed Luke in an easy shot, much like Stormtroopers and their amazing ability to miss.

All of this sort of speculation fed into the Boba Fett machine... there's really nothing in the OOT that screams "Hey, this is a real special character!!!" He's just another bad guy.

PS

Trebor Sabreon said:

Frankly, how you can call it "pretty unoriginal" is a bit beyond me.

I just find the knee-jerk need to retcon the PT to satisfy a handful of disgruntled fans and the need to go back and "correct" aspects of the Saga entirely unoriginal. Work within the framework of what you were handed by GL... You don't like an aspect of Boba's background, here's a crazy notion... don't bother drawing attention to it. In my example there's no need to bring up Jango, Clones, nothing... it's just a tale about Boba's exploits which can still be told in the fashion of a Spaghetti Western if that's the route you are going.


Yancy

 

Or as in Lucas' own words: "Boba Fett was just another one of the minions, another one of the bounty hunters and badguys"

 

Yup, basically he was Oddjob from Goldfinger... pretty cool character with some interesting bits (Oddjob... razor bowler hat, Boba... really cool armor and Wookiee pelts), but ultimately he's just the henchman. The real villain is Auric Goldfinger. And like Oddjob, you remember Fett because of the interesting bits, but Goldfinger is the baddie who stands out in the pantheon of Bond villains.


Yancy

 

Childish? I wouldn't say that. I see I may have bruised your ego a bit, but honestly, that wasn't my intent. I was trying the light-hearted approach by injecting some humor, and you jumped on me with "Blah, blah, Fett is yucky and even George Lucas says so!"

That said, I may be guilty of being condescending, yes, but come on, seriously, when is enough enough, brother?


Anyway, you want a source for my off-handed comment? Okay, fair enough. George Lucas, in a private viewing of some art-pieces auctioned off for charity, stopped to look at a Fett/Sarlacc piece, and when his tour guide said something to the effect of "of course, this piece depicts Boba Fett's death," George turned to her and said "no, but he didn't die" and went on to say (paraphrasing) that he crawled out, etc. Celebration VI, I believe. If my word's not enough (and were I you, it probably wouldn't be), there is a video which captured the exchange. Feel free to search it out.

It's clear when watching the video that for Lucas, Fett's survival is his personal canon (and his canon is the canon, you know?). But we don't even need to know that, because we already know how he feels about it, don't we? The fact that Lucas would even consider adding a scene to one of the films, of all things, ought to be enough for anyone to admit as much. Because if Fett's dead in George's mind, there's no need to consider it, is there? Of course not. If he's dead, he's dead, and that's the end of the argument in Lucas' mind. These films are his babies, and even if the reason behind first considering such a change was to appease Fett's fans (not that there's anything wrong with that, but still), the fact is he's on record as saying he had thoughts of adding the scene, and ultimately chose not to include the scene due to issues of pacing. That should say all that needs to be said on the topic of George and Boba.

And I know I said I wouldn't be dragged back into discussing Fett with you, because we've already been through it, and, at least when it comes to Fett, I don't get the impression that you're particularly interested in entertaining a p.o.v. different from your own. But you did ask for a source, and that's fair.

At least we agree completely that Luke is the compelling character of the Big3 (I think that was you who said as much earlier). We'll always have Paris... er, Luke.

Ah, I see, now. I thought you meant the idea itself was unoriginal, and not the motivation behind it.

I agree completely - no "need" to "correct" the saga, whatsoever. And the portion I bolded was spot-on.

 

I have seen the video. I am not ready to call anyone a liar, but you can't hear him and any annotations can be added to a video. Not to mention that it should have been big enough news that it would be more widely available and talked about. Someone at some interview after that would/should have asked for clarification, yet nobody has. What you call his "personal canon" is irrelevant considering the canon as offered to fans does not contain a single notion that Boba Fett survived. Also, the fact that he considered making it happen, but decided not to because it wouldn't fit, thus leaving us with the observable canon that we have now says all that there is to say about it.

If you want to talk about EU, you can have alllll of the EU Boba Fett that your heart desires. As far as true canon and the movies go, the EU is all but worthless.

 

It doesn't surprise me that they'd want to bring Fett back. It does surprise me that they'd be willing to retcon him in the proposed way. I guess the idea is that with thousands of Jango clones running around, Boba doesn't seem very special, even if he is unaltered. So to recreate that lost enigma they bring in a completely new Fett. Seems to solve the PT problems, but we still have the problem of him going out so easily in 6. But I imagine that if they're willing to retcon his identity they'll also be willing to retcon his death. The real question is how well the Fett film does. Success will justify more retcons.

Personally, I don't mind them trying to reboot Boba Fett. It could create some entertaining movies and a better back story than what we've had. Not that I hated what we got in the PT, but I can imagine something better.

 

While it's true that the films as they stand now portray Boba as having died, the fact is Lucas does seem pretty ambivalent about that fact and has come across on several occasions as being perfectly ok with the EU recon that he escaped, therefore I don't think it would be the slightest bit of a stretch for an upcoming film to show this. It does, however, seem like a pretty big stretch to me that he would be ok with completely doing away with the origins that he created for the character.

 

If he is ok with it, it says a lot about how much it means to him one way or the other.

 

I still don't see Fett coming out of the Sarlacc for any future movies. Absolutely NOTHING can change how incredibly lame he was in getting there. Screaming and flailing very much unlike the tough guy fans see him as.

If they do bring him back, it would only be fitting that he goes on to live in shame as a drunken alcoholic mess for being such an incredible failure. I mean, c'mon... Jar Jar has had more on-film success in action.

I would pay to see a Darth Nacho spinoff though. Tell me that my avatar does not inspire awesome.

 

Oh. Well, if you'd already seen the video, then one would have thought you'd have known what I was talking about. You're right about the audio quality of at least one version I've seen, but even in the one you're talking about, George can clearly be heard to say that the piece should be called "the Survivor" (3:10 mark. He says it as he passes his finger along the piece's nameplate). I believe that the people who were actually there are the ones responsible for having reported the content of Lucas' remarks (that is to say, I don't believe people who weren't present just listened after the fact and said "hey, I just heard George say Boba Fett lived"). I could be wrong, so don't quote me on that, but I do seem to recall this is what was stated when the reports first surfaced.

And there actually was considerable discussion among Fett fans when news of Lucas' remarks first surfaced. Why it would be "big news," though, to anyone other than folks at The Dented Helmet, is anyone's guess. I don't exactly see Lucasfilm issuing a press release, anyway. This isn't a big story and we're not dissecting the Zapruder film, or anything. Would I have liked for someone to have asked George more about it, afterward? Sure, but he happened to have made an off-hand remark to a small coterie of folks, and that was the end of it. Why would anyone argue the point with him? The only thing that makes this moment remotely "special" is that it happens to have been recorded (apparently without Lucas' knowledge), and offers us the chance to steal a glimpse into George's feelings on an esoteric matter about a small-time character.

As to the worth of Lucas' "personal canon"? Well, you're the one who brought that up in the first place, in backing your position after my Cliegg Lars post. Now that I addressed that with a differing interpretation, you insist that his personal canon is "irrelevant." It feels as though you're moving the goal-posts, I'm afraid.

Even though I imagine I know how you'll see it, I feel I must point out again that canon actually does contain more than a "single notion that Boba Fett survived." Much more, in fact. Plenty has been written about it and most of it is considered canon under Lucasfilm's stated rules for their 'tiered canon' system. But I know you interpret matters of canon differently than Lucasfilm, themselves, do, so I'm not trying to convince you (so no need to copy and paste the 'wook entry on canon - I know what it says, and I feel your reading on it is flat wrong).

As you mention, though, that Lucas never included the scene he was considering ("it didn't fit" - and he's right, the likely place for Fett's scene already transitions beautifully from the arching shot of Luke's departing X-wing, to a wipe and then into Palpatine's arrival at Death Star II) does leave us without any film-level canon survival for the guy.

And to me, this is a real shame, at least in the sense that it could have offered a final resolution on the matter. As I've said a kagillion times, I'd like there to be no room left for debate. Simply put, I'd very much like to see one of two things happen:

1. Fett is shown on film making his way out of the hole (or, at least, alive at some point established as post-Carkoon), or

2. It is stated on film that he's still being digested.

Failing that, whether he's supposed to be alive or dead, I want the Story Group to just come right out and state it, one way or the other. No more books that say he's alive, if it's not top-tier, "same as the films," canon. No more "maybe." My enjoyment of the character doesn't hinge on the answer to the question, but I think we can all agree that the debate, itself, has become tired.

 

With that argument we could argue that Vader lived since we only saw his suit burn and not his body. You could argue Luke's vision of his father standing with Obi Wan and Yoda was a hallucination since nobody ever confirmed that he was seeing a force ghost since akin to Fett's death, it was only implied.

There is a TON of stuff that you could change with that argument. It is useless.

 

Let's all have a nice shot of brandy and simmer down.

 

What do you all think of rumors that in the Boba Fett standalone (apparently set before ESB), Kasdan is going to kill off the Boba Fett introduced in AOTC (i.e. Jango's son) and replace him with someone else?

 

Essentially, if true, they want to reboot Fett. Ignoring the question of whether that's necessary or not, I don't really care as long as the movie is good.

 

Is it really necessary to give a 1000 word essay explaining why it sounds like such a stupid idea, I mean common it should be obvious. Oh and just for the record I thought putting Boba Jango as the clone template, was a bad idea too.

They can pretty much make Citizen Fett (doubtful) but no matter what he will still be a bit part plot device in the OT who goes out like a punk.