Is Christmas an insult to Christianity?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Chris2, Aug 24, 2002.

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  1. Rikalonius Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    I personally don't like Christmas because it's marketed like a Used Car. So much in your face, you will sing stupid Christmas carols and love thy neighbor or be branded a Scrooge crap.

    As a Christian I don't even look at it as the day of Christ's birth, namely because it wasn't, but also because it has been so distorted. I would rather that everyone took a break and celebrated time with family, and helped the needy. Instead we all run around the rat trap 10X faster than we do the rest of the year, trying to meet our Christmas obligations.

    BAH HUMBUG!!!
  2. WormieSaber Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 22, 2000
    star 5
    I think Christmas is a wonderful holiday, in America, anyway. Though I would prefer that it's true meaning be the focus in shopping malls rather than Santa and the rain deer. I suppose Jesus could be quite upset at how it has been commericialized. However, if you consider the fact that 90 percent of retail make there annal income for the year on X-Mas alone, you realize it's somewhat necessary now. And all you old fuddy duddies need to remember the adernaline in a child's heart and mind on any X-mas morning! Who loved children and always surrounded himself with children? Jesus. Children love Christmas. What a better way to excite and give to a child, than with toys and other gifts placed underneath a colorful, glowing and glittering X-Mas tree!
  3. R2D2-PENA Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 3
    Well in my opinion, if you look at Christmas from an American point of view you CAN say that it has strayed away from the actual purpose of the celebration, but that is no the case in the rest of the world. In YOUR case it has been over-martketed, but not in other countries, you (North Americans) fail to realize that your country makes so much emphasis on money, it is not the case in other parts of the world. Also take to account that the only people who celebrate Christmas are "christian" countries, which limit it to about 10% of the world's population and in other countries aside from the US and Canada, money and commercialism is not the point of Christmas.

    More to add, that alot of the "events" that happen during christmas are cultural. TV puts an emphasis on nostalgia, being a child, snow (in the southern hemisphere it is summer when they celebrate christmas), singing carols (in the english language at least), riding a sled (again, only in the northern hemisphere), etc. etc.

    So if we analize christmas, you could say that it is not occurring the way it should occur, but maybe that is just in the US and not in other parts of the world.
  4. jedimaster5615 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 2
    Christmas is awesome. There are many family members I only see on Christmas. And besides, presents - yes, please.
  5. Darth_Omega Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    LOL [face_laugh] the only person who came close to the original christmas tradition is Ariana, although she is 20 days off, but that doesn't matter. :p

    Let me tell you a story that will surprise most of you. :)

    A story about Sinterklaas a holiday that is celebrated on 5 December in Holland and Flanders (if you know where that is).

    It all started with a person called Sint Nikolaas who originated from Turkey gave presents, food to the poor children in Holland.

    After he died, the Dutch and the Fleming decided to make an holiday of it. Called Sinterklaas. They changed facts (for example he came from Spain instead of Turkey and he aides called Zwarte Pieten)

    Somewhere in the last 3 centuries an American visited Holland. And saw the holiday on 5 December. So he decided that USA should have that holiday.

    He literally translated the name to Santa Claus. He changed some facts (for example the North Pole thing).
    And it was celebrated 20 days later in USA. Somehow it spread through the world with the idea that Jesus was born on that day.

    So that's how Christmas originated :p
  6. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Darth_Omega,

    You are speaking of the origins of Santa Claus.

    Western Christians begain celebrating what is known as Christmas in the early 4th century. The actual choice of December 25th was made in the last 3rd century, although discussion and debate was held centuries earlier on the neccessity and specifics of the holiday. Christians specifically picked the day of December 25th after much debate as it is the date of many paganistic rituals involving the sun and more specifically, the Roman sun god. Many Christian leaders at the time were opposed to a seperate holiday as they felt that the birth of Christ should be celebrated (as it was) with the Epiphany.

    As far as today's Christmas celebration is concerened, it greatly depends on who, in specific, is celebrating. Gift giving is used to symbolize the gifts brought to Jesus by the three wise men. Today, this ritual has evolved into a purchasing frenzy that seemingly knows no bounds.
  7. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    Darth_Omega: Actually, that's not entirely correct. While "Santa Claus" comes from an English mistranslation of a Dutch legend... the real "Santa Claus" they referred to was St. Nicholas II, Russian (or Turkish? I've now heard both...) patron saint of Children, who died in the 4th century.

    But the origins of Christmas itself do date back to some Celtic and Druid traditions... namely, the celebration of the Winter Solstice and the worship of trees (the Church allowed them to continue to have their holiday, in the interests of assimilating them into Christianity, but on the condition that they incorporate the evergreen tree, with its triangular shape, in symbolism of the holy trinity).

    The Winter Solstice, December 21, also coincides with the birth of the Persian demigod Mithras. Mithras was born on December 25, had 12 disciples/apostles, performed miracles, was an avatar (earthly incarnation) of god, died and was resurrected three days later. The Persian cult of Mithras had one of the largest followings of any religion except Christianity, at its height, and the particulars of Mithras' biography were incorporated into the Christian belief as a means of assimilating Mithras' followers. Mithras, incidentally, is a derivative of the ancient Hindu (Vedic) demigod Mitra, part of the earliest monotheistic trinity in recorded history (Indra, Varuna and Mitra... later replaced by Brahma, Shiva annd Vishnu). Mitra was responsible for watching over earth.
  8. Darth_Omega Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Cool, thanks for explaining :D
  9. Lianna Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2001
    star 4
    I don't think that any informed person can question the pagan origins of Christmas. Many sincere Christians observe this day with great reverance as the day of Christ's birth. But how many know that the Jews as well as the early Christians did not celebrate birthdays as they considered this to be paganistic. So, interestingly, this would mean that Jesus did not celebrate his birthday.
  10. Vera Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    In our state (in central Europe) St. Nicholas II is called Mikulas (czech version of his name). He brings sweets (he gives them in the window) to all children during the night from 5th/6th December or he visit a children. He wears clothes like Holy Father and comes with an angel and a devil. He asks a children if they have been good that year and then gives them sweets.

    We dont have X-mas morning but the X-mas night on 24th December when we give presents to each other (they are not from Santa Claus but from Jesus).

    :D :D :D :D :D
  11. xNormaJeanx Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    "Is Christmas an insult to Christianity?"

    Only if you lose track of its true meaning and its fake meaning becomes more important to you.
  12. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    Vera: That's right... I Forgot to mention that St. Nicholas Day is December 6th. Because of the close proximity of Mithras' birth date, the Winter Solstice, and St. Nicholas Day... they were all assimilated into December 25th as Christmas.
  13. Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    I, personally, look at Christmas as a time to celebrate Christ's birth, not a celebration of his birthday. There is an important distinction there. You can celebrate at any time of the year (and last Friday I was a a Christmas in August concert by the Air Force Band). The exact date is really irrelevant because we don't know it. Does that mean that we cannot celebrate his birth? No.

    The way I understand it, there are two (semi-contradicting) reasons why December 25 was selected. First, at the time there was still a lot of persecution of Christians, so they moved their celebration to coincide with a pagan holiday to disguise it. Second, it was done to smooth the transition for former pagans.

    Kimball Kinnison
  14. ADMIRALSPUZZUM Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2002
    star 4
    Anyway, It doesn't really matter WHEN Jesus was born, just celebrating it is fine.
  15. Adelaide Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    star 4
    I thought Jesus was born in the spring time or something, u know, the shepherds..
  16. padawanSol-karanFett Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2002
    actually, i belive that Bethlehem[sp] is near-ish the equator, so the shepards might have been out in December anyways...
  17. ADMIRALSPUZZUM Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2002
    star 4
    Seems to be a lot of Shepards back then. An enlightened profession perhaps? :)
  18. Sketkh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2002
    star 4
    Christmas was misguided by the roman calendar as a actual attempt to conform nonbelievers into christianity by christians.

    It's true, I'm a christian I believe that Jesus's birthday was in April, becuase all evidence points to hid spring birth in the bible.

    Christmas was basically placed into a month were holidays were scare in december so Christians created a day to celebrate the lords day by gift giving.
  19. HavocHound Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    I fully agree with Chris2. It's so refreshing to see that others oppose the groupthink of the status quo! :D

    And by the way, the Grinch was right. He may have been a sociopath, but that doesn't change the fact that he was right to do what he did - which was to single-handedly rise up against the commercial machine that had trapped the Whos' minds within a sublimal prison of materialism.
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