Is Darth Vader really all THAT tough when it comes to Lightsaber Duels?

Remember, Dukoo trained in the art of fencing with lightsabers, where as for most of the modern Jedi, the lightsaber was a means to deflect laser bolts. The fack that anakin can hold his own, at least for a while, against dukoo says a lot about his natural ability.

 

Languagebecuase he is old and wasted during the ot, and we only see him fihgt an old guy breiefly and then toy around with a n00b on bespin, then he kinda fights but gets owned (i think he did it purposely. plus the choreographers werent that good back then

 

Obi-wan: When I first knew your father, I was amazed by how strong the Force was in him.

Yoda: Why you wish to become a Jedi?

Luke: I don't know? Mostly because of my father, I guess.

Yoda: Powerful Jedi, was he.

Lucas came up with it back then. It was a conincidence that both films had the similar plot about a Chosen One. Lucas doesn't need something flashy like in the Matrix. Just that Anakin was strong enough to kill Palpatine and survive grave injuries.

No other Jedi could survive a direct onslaught of Sith Lightning. Yoda can deflect it, but not indefinately. Palpatine is strong enough to take out all Jedi, save for Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One.

 

Uh, to MasterMace and other non-chosen one believers...get over it. I dont give a crap if you all think GL is full of it when he says it...but its his story and there is no disputing it.

The SIMPLE AND UTTER REASON why we dont see Vader as all that flashy like Maul for example is that the choreography and directing didnt allow for it in the OT. Storywise, it is OBVIOUS and CLEAR that Vader never wanted to kill Luke, thus he never tried. Hard to give a great fight and look all that powerful when you dont really want to kill your son...which he didnt cuz he obviously saved him.

In the PT, you WILL see In EpII that Obi and Yoda could not destroy Dooku. No matter how you put it, Dooku escapes Yoda. YODA. And he is the master of all masters. In EPIII, Anakin will show all you non-believers that he is indeed extremely powerful and he will destroy Dooku, and probably other Jedi like Mace. Only Obi defeats Anakin, and its probably an accidental fall which Anakin takes...to make it more tragic that makes him suffer all those injuries. Then Obi blames himself and there ya go.

Nuff said. You can argue at what I said all you want but its the plain and simple truth. Deal with it.

 

I always believed that Luke beat Vader by temporaily being turned to the Dark side.
Palpatine continually goads Luke into killing him and when Luke finally breaks and attempts to strike it's Vader who stops the death blow and it's time to get it on in a battle to be the Emporer's lackey.
At sime time during the fight Luke realises what has happened and calms down until Vaders gets him going again with the "Sister" remark releasing the hatred again whuich eventually beats him and it's not until Luke see's that he is not only metally but physically becoming like his father does he snap out of it again and deny Palpatine, but thats just the way i always seen it.
The one thing that i really can't wait to see in AOTC is not only Dooku's swordsmanship but also his banter, will he be a better Goader that Anarkin? Is this where Vader learns his witty repiorte?

 

Vader picking up Palpatine and throwing into a pit proved that yes he can take a bunch of force lightning, obviously we are not gonna see a flashy Vader doing flips and going Jet Li on somebody because when they made the OT that couldn't happen and that didn't need to happen....It's obvious to me that Vader fears Palpatine in the OT, "I must obey my master," and probably a few other similar lines that I can't remember right off the top of my head....Why did he fear Palpatine so much? Could he have defeated him withouth the help of Luke(who served as a distraction while Vader picked him up)?
Also how do we know that Mace can't absorb force lightning too, I mean he is with YODa all the time, he has to know how to do that... wouldn't you think....
Finally we don't know what Palpatine is capable of because we have only see him bully Luke with force Lightning.. All we know is that the Chosen ONe will kill him..
IM not arguing Darth BAne, you seem to be taking stuff a little personal..this is a discussion forum
MASTERMACE

 

The chosen one thing or prophecy should have been mentioned in the OT too
MASTERMACE

 

MASTERMACE, you are the Chosen One. I knew someone else shared my opinion. Sadly I am not too good at arguing online.

 

DarthBane, sorry, but you're wrong.... Dooku makes Yoda choose betweeen defeating him and saving Obi-Wan and Anakin. Yoda chooses the latter, allowing Dooku the time needed to escape. ..at least according to the novelization and the spoilers.

I do think that EpIII will show, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that Anakin IS the man(or has become the man).

 

Please remember that he is still just a padawan learner in AOTC. Only Yoda is strong enough to defeat Dooku (although it would have been interesting to see how Mace would have done against him)and Anakin actually does pretty good against Dooku when he has the two lightsabers. I think he will prove to be tough in episode 3. I think he will beat Dooku in the same way that Luke beat Vader in ROTJ. Also, I am hoping he will beat Mace. I think his battle with Obi-wan will be a stale mate for the most part, but Obi-wan will get lucky in the end, and Vader will somehow fall in the lava. You would have to think that the droid armor he wears in the original trilogy makes him very immobile. So I think we will see him in his prime in Episode 3.

 

I agree with Mason. In the book it clearly shows that Yoda EASILY beat Dooku, and that the only way Dooku was able to escape was by distracting Yoda. Notice to that Dooku ESCAPED, he did not even attempt to kill the distracted Yoda. As if he still felt that even the distracted Yoda could still defend himself against anything Dooku could dish out. Looks to me like he was trying to create an opportunity to escape and that he know that when Yoda was done saving Anakin and OB1 he would turn around and stomp him. Besides WHO says that Anakin/Vader or Palpatine ever has to beat Yoda?

I still suspect that Yoda is actually marooned somehow on Dagobah and consequently somehow spared the fate of the rest of the council. Perhaps he is assumed dead.

Also you guys are making it too difficult, The Jedi council is not that hard to kill, sounds like in AOTC they are reduced by half and that had nothing to do with being bested through skill. There are plenty of ways that Anakin/Vader could wipe them out that do not require single combat fights with lightsabers. I imagine we will see some of them killed in single combat, but most of the killings will probably be offscreen assassinations, ambushes, hunted down by bounty hunters as outlaws, or in groups like in AOTC. After all there are still THOUSANDS of Jedi scattered around the galaxy, Vader isn't going to fight each one single handed.

Sure GL didn't choreograph the fighting very well in the OT, but we have to live with that and there must be an explanation that makes it fit into the SW storyline. So "the fight wasn't well choreographed" is not an answer that will cut it. The answer is that he NEVER wanted to kill Luke.

I suspect that we will see Vader/Anakin fight in some very unique ways, skill in a lightsaber duel is, just that, skill. I think that strength in the force helps but is not the key to being good at dueling (blocking blasters yes). Yoda has almost 900 years of lightsaber dueling experience not to mention he taught Dooku how to fight. No way will Anakin be able to defeat Yoda in a fair duel, but the force, that's Anakin's advantage.

No I think Anakin/Vader is going to be skilled AND show us some wicked tricks, like throwing stuff, choking, perhaps even launching some "distractions" at bystanders. In ep. V-VI Vader was holding back (he did not want to kill Luke) in ep. III we will get to see how he fights when he is really mad and ready to kill.

 

Padawan, The explanation that GL gives for the poorly choreographed fights in the original trilogy is that you are not seeing "real Jedi in thier prime" fighting. You are only seeing an old man, a crippled half-droid, half-man, and an inexperienced young boy who has only been training for a very short period of time.

 

WATCH IMPIRE AGAIN!!!
VADER fights LUKE with one hand in some parts
,sure LUKE was not a complete JEDI,but VADER
made him look like a little girl.
and look at OBI-WANS face in A NEW HOPE ,he shows real fear at one point he knows he is
not going to defeat VADER.

VADER KICKS BUTT.....

BUT YODA IS TRUELY THE MASTER...............

 

I mean Vader is the "CHOSEN ONE" but one thing thats just getting annoying is that he has to be the best everything
"Strongest force user"
"Best with a lightsaber"
"Best pilot in the galaxy"
is there anything this guy can't do, what are we gonna hear next....Best Dancer, Best with the ladies if he tries, Best Chess player, is his Swartz bigger than everyone elses too, I mean C'mon

 

That usually happens when you are all powerful. You become the best at a lot of things.

 

Yoda being a Master doesn't necessarily mean that he's the best dueler around.
In ESB he tells Luke "Jedi only use the Force for defence and knowledge" This may well mean that he may be the best defensive swordsman inthe universe but not the best when it comes to attack, which in itself may mean that the best offensive swordsman is one who fights to kill using hatred meaning......

 

Yoda would school Darth Vader! ABsolutely school him....Darth is to slow and crippled....

 

Just a note, Obi wan wasnt really better then Maul, maul defeated him in the duel, but was too stupid to finish him when he had the chance.

 

"Yoda would school Darth Vader! ABsolutely school him....Darth is to slow and crippled..."

And Palpatine would school Yoda, that is all we need to know. Okay, lock thread.

 

And Palpatine would school Yoda, that is all we need to know. Okay, lock thread.

Dude, you have no proof. All we know from the film is Palpatine can use Lightning, and we know Yoda can counter it. So I would say from everything we've seen, Yoda would take Palpatine to the cleaners.

 

Thank you Slave 2
I mean 800 years of experience to Palpatines 80, uhhmm if you do that math people......
MASTERMACE

 

Good point Slave 2. Although I don't think it would be a quick battle.

 

He is one of the best but not the best.

OBI-WAN:If you'd spend as much time working
on your saber skills as you do on your wit,
young Padawan,you would rival Master Yoda
as a swordsman.

ANAKIN:I thought I already did.

OBI-ONEnly in your mind,my very young apprentice.

NUFF SAID

 

is that what they say in that scene?
it was so loud i couldn't hear it..

Anakin, that conceded punk!!!
Yoda has 900 years of experience and the brat has only 20 and all ready he thinks he's better.....

 

I agree with you. I knew the script going in by heart, yet I still had a hard time understanding what they were saying in that scene. Understandably so, I guess. They are flying at top speed through busy nighttime traffic.