Speculation Is Disney Capable of Learning the Lessons of John Carter and Phantom Menace?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jabbadabbado, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    Actually, I think the Dark Knight Trilogy already used the OT as a template.

    Movie 1 = Groundbreaking, oodles of fun
    Movie 2= Masterpiece
    Movie 3 = Bantha Poodoo
  2. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    You're forgetting Obi-Wan has taken Han's place as the third part of the trio. At this point, adding yet another main character who would have risked diluting Anakin/Vader and the fall of the Republic story. It might have worked had the prequels been a three season show, similar to HBO's Rome where the story of two ordinary soldiers' are intertwined with that of the Roman elite, but we're talking about only 6 hours of movie time. That leaves sidekicks (yeah, Jar Jar) and various secondary or cameo characters like Dex to represent the galaxy at large.

    Also, Han was only selfish in A New Hope. In the next two, he only appears to be a rogue, but he actually acts like an essentially good guy. A scoundrel's part was bestowed on Lando in Empire.

    If you're talking about distrust of authority or jabs at the Jedi, it was relegated to various other characters in PT, including Yoda himself.
  3. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    My favorite of the trilogy, but what was so groundbreaking about it? Aside from successfully rebooting the Batman franchise on screen.

    Maybe compared to other comic books adaptation. I'll take Empire's thin plot over TDK's messy one.

    Still a better finale than ROTJ.
    VMeran likes this.
  4. DarthRelaxus Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2007
    star 5
    I am filled with both hope and dread. Unfortunately, the future is clouded.
  5. GargantuanThrillMachine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 1
    how droll. those characters also deal with issues like being isolated and withdrawn, loss of loved ones, coping with and overcoming insurmountable odds, etc, etc, etc. we identify with the plight and character, not the superhuman feats selected to support your myopia. the fact is that stories like these need a normal character like those listed to help guide us normal individuals through the story.

    i don't hang with children or neckbeards
  6. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    NATALIE:

    -"Groundbreaking" in the way that Nolan wedded the realistic and fantastical threads so seamlessly. An approach replicated for the equally successful Craig Bond reboot.

    --Yes, the plot machinery is grinding rather loudly in TDK, but the Batman/Joker/Dent/Gordon dynamic and ambiguous socio-political themes come close to nullfifying the effect. Nevertheless, the elegance of TESB is missed.

    -They're both turgid, but if pressed, I'd opt for Lucas's insipid, half-baked redemption story rather than experience Nolan's dour, bloated, downright-reactionary capper. (It helps that unlike Batman and Bane, I can actually understand what the hell Luke and Vader are saying.)
    The-Eternal-Hero likes this.
  7. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    1. John Carter was outstanding. It deserved a better fate and is already becoming a cult classic.

    2. TPM is a brilliant film, an astonishing accomplishment in visual art, and one of the most successful films ever made.

    I hope they look at both films and learn as much as possible from both of them.
    VMeran, darthgator1217 and ezekiel22x like this.
  8. Crix-Madine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2000
    star 4
  9. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    I don't want to speculate about Disney's plans for Lucasfilm, but the truth is that they just don't need the production company/studio in the same way they need Pixar and Marvel. It seems clear they bought it because they had to in order to get at the Star Wars brand. Any talented production company with access to ILM or equivalent and experience making big budget, effects-driven action movies could make a Star Wars film. I would like to see Lucasfilm shut down as a means of forcing Disney to take a fresh approach to Star Wars. Unlike many of you, I don't really have any other expectations for what these movies are about, as long as they're well-made.
  10. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Lucas wanted LFL to be part of a bigger entity that would protect it. I'm sure he won't sign a deal that would allow Disney to shut them down - and honestly, I don't think they have any intention of doing so. They want Star Wars fans to remain Star Wars fans. The best way to achieve that is to let LFL keep doing Star Wars, since they know better than anyone else how to do it.





    LFL will be kept intact
    /LM
    Last edited by Lars_Muul, Nov 4, 2012
  11. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The Star Wars brand still has plenty of market power, but I would say that people's attitudes about the movies are probably at an all-time low. I could not get my kids to sit still for a prequel showing even if I paid them, although the youngest is a real Clone Wars fan.

    If Disney doesn't make a fresh start, they risk further erosion of the licensing and merchandising power of Star Wars, which is ultimately all they really care about. They need good films to drive people to theme parks and stores.
  12. DealAlterer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    Well that's one look at it...
    KilroyMcFadden likes this.
  13. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    This whole Marvel should do SW is wishful thinking. They're pretty busy with their own universe in the foreseeable future, in case you didn't notice.
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  14. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Right - the general public is becoming less and less concious regarding Star Wars. Everybody talks about Citizen Kane - but who has actually watched it? I don't want Star Wars to be relegated to that kind of standing just yet.
  15. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Would they sit still for the OT? My guess is your youngest might take an interest in the movies when he/she is a bit older. I won't say they will, 'cause they might outgrow their interest for Star Wars altogether.

    And good films they will get. The only thing you hear from the haters these days is Lucas this and Lucas that. They blame GL for everything. Since he's not making the sequels, any fear of getting more of that kind of backlash should be infinitesimal. I seriously doubt that Disney has ever feared any such thing, though, considering how much money Star Wars still makes.
    Besides, it's the embittered, older fans who are spreading the negative attitude, not kids.





    People have different interests
    /LM
    Last edited by Lars_Muul, Nov 4, 2012
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  16. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    As I said in the box office thread: by the end of the year, the Phantom Menace 3d re release will have been knocked out of the top 50 films of the year, as compared to Titanic being the 14th most successful movie of 2012. That is a hint that Lucasfilm should not be making Star Wars movies. They don't know how.
  17. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    I know - I would have watched TPM 3D...if any theatres in my area bothered to show it! People don't care about SW anymore.
  18. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    They don't know how? The PT was made by GL, who invented Star Wars. If there's one person who knows how Star Wars is made, he's the one.
    KK will carry on GL's torch, with him for support. The ST will be as Star Wars as it could possibly get without him being directly involved.





    Creators know how to create
    /LM
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  19. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    That's ridiculous. Sure, the prequels have flaws (so did the originals, particularly ROTJ), but they still made a lot of money and got a lot of positive reviews. Or Disney wouldn't have bought Lucasfilm for as much money in the first place. Fanboys love to rewrite history, but the figures speak for themselves. Bob Iger said the prequels would have made 1.5 billion worldwide each in today's market.

    Whatever flaws you think the prequels had in terms of writing/directing, Lucasfilm is not just Lucas (and right now, he's not even in charge). Hundreds of people worked on the movies to make it a high quality production (art design, costumes, props, etc.). Disney would be stupid to dismiss all this talent and actual experience of working on a live action SW in favor of their other division that has no experience with SW and busy with it's own universe anyway.
  20. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Lucasfilm knows how to make movies like the prequels, but that's not what the public wants.
  21. The-Eternal-Hero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    They're three of the highest grossing movies of all time.
    VMeran and ThatWanFromStewjon like this.
  22. DealAlterer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    star 1
    Box office success has more to do with marketing and awareness. It doesn't matter if there were people out there who liked the prequels. You can find someone to say something positive about almost anything. Believe it or not, there are probably loads and loads of people who loved the Spice Girls movie.

    No one's opinion is right or wrong. If you loved the prequels then that's fine. I respect that. However something must be said for the fact that these films divided the fanbase. Now you might have trouble admitting that, but to me that's not something that can be so easily ignored. And this isn't just a case of certain people being off put by a bunch of Ewoks. This was Star Wars fans turning on Star Wars. That type of thing hadn't been seen until 1999.
    UseTheForceLady likes this.
  23. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    ROTJ also divided the fanbase. Most, if not all, sequels do. Different expectations from different fans makes it so.
    ...especially when you release prequels to some of the most popular movies of all time 16 years after the originals.
    The fact remains that kids of 1977-1983 loved the OT and kids of 1999-2005 loved the PT. That's why they were all enormously successful.





    Kids love Star Wars
    /LM
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  24. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    How do you know that? Did you conduct some kind of a comprehensive analysis of the public opinion?

    This is not to say that prequels didn't have some glaring flaws that often get criticized. But these flaws are usually blamed on Lucas and he's not in charge of the ST anymore.

    Besides, Marvel is busy anyway so your point is moot.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  25. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    And even Empire! They just didn't have the Internet as an outlet for negativity.

    I follow a few book/movie/TV/games franchises and there's always some division with each new installment (admittedly, TPM was a bit extreme, but then few franchises have SW's popularity). I wasn't fan of the Hunger Games' sequels, didn't like Babylon 5's final season as much as the previous 3, thought Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows wasn't much better than a fanfic, etc.

    No matter how well done, the ST will most definitely alienate a lot of fans, be ready for this.