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Speculation Is Disney Capable of Learning the Lessons of John Carter and Phantom Menace?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jabbadabbado, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    Do you seriously think people watched John Carter and thought, "this is too much like the new star wars movies, so I hate it."

    Seriously?
     
  2. Barth

    Barth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2002
    John Carter proves that Disney can make a first rate sci fi action adventure movie. The aliens looked great and very realistic. Mix that with the Star Wars universe plus a lot of new environments and characters, and you have a winner. This should almost definitely beat Avatar in the box office.
     
  3. The Great No One

    The Great No One Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2005
    other than the fact that the story aspect of avatar is utter tripe, yea. if you want a movie without story then get cameron to go big budget spectacle again.
     
  4. Jedi Gunny

    Jedi Gunny Yahtzee Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    May 20, 2008
    But who says you need a good plot to make money in the movie business? ;)
     
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN and fishtailsam like this.
  5. fishtailsam

    fishtailsam Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Now I really liked Avengers, my wife didnt.

    But anyway, This list is my gripe list about TPM.

    (- the darth maul fight as far as action)
     
  6. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    Avatar made money because it was the first movie to truly embrace and push 3d cinema in an amazing and innovative direction. It was an immersive visit to another world and unlike anything audiences had ever experienced - just as technically innovative and genre-bending as the original Star Wars in 1977.

    The closest Cameron has ever gotten to delivering memorable, three dimensional characters was (IMHO) Terminator 2 in 1991.

    Cameron would not be a good choice for the new Star Wars. I doubt he would have time or the interest in doing it anyway.
     
  7. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Exactly. I actually like Avatar, but it's because of the big action spectacle and the visuals, not the story and characters, which are incredibly paint by the numbers. I'd like it even more if an hour of all the "I see you" stuff was cut and the film moved at a Lucas-like pace.
     
  8. YODA the all powerful

    YODA the all powerful Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 1998
    Isn't Disney the most successful entertainment company ever?

    Sure that doesn't make them immune from mistakes, but I like the odds that they know what to do to make this is a wildly entertaining success.
     
  9. Miana Kenobi

    Miana Kenobi Admin Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2000
    Disney is so hit or miss with films, though. For everything they do right (most of their animated films, Pixar, now Marvel), they then sometimes fall ever so short (almost all of the direct to DVD sequels, a lot of their live-action G and PG movies, the entire Tinkerbell franchise...)
     
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  10. admiral_Jim

    admiral_Jim Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 7, 2004
    It's hard to say, ultimately we will get whatever they perceive that the kids want to see,
    that's where the cash is and cash is the reason new movies are going to be made. With the additional finance and international distribution power that Disney are able to arm Lucasfilm with I think we will see allsorts of new material.....some we will like and some we won't but let's be thankful that there is going to be new material to look forward to. Worry less and enjoy more :)
     
    StampidHD280pro likes this.
  11. WIERD_GREEN_MAN

    WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Get a marketing plan that actually makes people want to see the movie.
     
  12. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The only lesson they need to learn from John Carter is not to let Andrew Stanton handle marketing.
     
    mutantchair likes this.
  13. admiral_Jim

    admiral_Jim Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 7, 2004
    Star Wars: Episode 7.....that's pretty much all the marketing required. Disney have paid a pretty full price for Lucasfilm and unless the movies are a hit of Avengers proportions then they've probably paid a little too much so I'd imagine their focus will be on the quality of the movies firstly.
     
  14. WIERD_GREEN_MAN

    WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Right - except Avatar's story is not as compelling as the Star Wars one.
     
  15. Womprataouille1974

    Womprataouille1974 Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Shut Up, Meg.
     
  16. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Loki is a great villain who is well portrayed by an under-rated actor.

    But, most of those failures are things they themselves are responsible for.
    Pixar has its own team and creates its own stuff largely free of Disney interference and so does Marvel. They have done well, Disney's own works have not fared so well on the other hand.

    Lucasfilm seems to be in the same position as Marvel & Pixar, so provided Disney treats in the same as those two then whether Star Wars succeeds is largely down to them.
     
  17. TheMasterOfSoresu

    TheMasterOfSoresu Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Ironically, yes.

    Although, Avengers' plot is more simplistic and therefore less flaws occur. But both are equally bad. Well... it's been a while since I've watched TPM and I've only seen Avengers once - and don't intend to see it again - so I can't say for sure.
     
    fishtailsam likes this.
  18. DarthMane2

    DarthMane2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    John Carter 's problem, besides it's failing as a movie( Which it isn't a bad movie but it's one that could and should have been better), was the marketing. Disney didn't know how to market a 100 year old property to a 2012 audience. Thus it failed. You'll probably see this again with LONE RANGER.

    Star Wars is already a huge pop culture phenomenon. So it's issue isn't getting the idea out to people, if your a human being you should know what Star Wars is in some form.

    Disney's issue will be quality of story, and my feeling is that they'll be just as worried as we are about getting Episode 7 right.
     
    fishtailsam and Miles Lodson like this.
  19. darthgator1217

    darthgator1217 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2005
    Avatar was a dramatic mess. Also, Cameron would never do this anyway, I think. His price would be too high. Besides, would you want the guy who came up with "unobtanium" to involved with this?
     
  20. SithLordDarthRichie

    SithLordDarthRichie CR Emeritus: London star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2003
  21. YODA the all powerful

    YODA the all powerful Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 5, 1998
    They've been pretty right on with their big franchises. Pirates, Tron, Marvel, etc.
     
    Miles Lodson likes this.
  22. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    Along the same lines as the opening post--
    A big question is whether they learn the positive lessons from the JJ Abrams' Star Trek, Nolan's Dark Knight and the Daniel Craig Bond films. I'd love to see a sequel trilogy that follows the model of those films--darker, real suspense, humor, plot twists, etc. One complaint with the PT is that Lucas was too concerned with showcasing and pushing the limits of CGI effects. Let's get a solid story, a good writer, and a cast with chemistry. The rest will fall into place.
     
    KilroyMcFadden likes this.
  23. mutantchair

    mutantchair Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Exactly. John Carter was every bit as good as any Star Wars movie, but the marketing for JC was a train wreck. I wouldn't solely blame Stanton for it, but at least put the marketing fully in the hands of somebody who has, you know, marketed a $250 million film before.
     
  24. Bobatron

    Bobatron Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Another hard lesson for Disney was when Mars Needs Moms flopped.
    The Lone Ranger will be the next. They already had to take steps to cut costs. If that flops, the press will never stop referencing it when EP VII comes around.
    This deal isn't just to save the STAR WARS franchise, but also Disney's films division.
     
  25. WIERD_GREEN_MAN

    WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Disney had very high expectations for both John Carter and TRON: Legacy yet both films didn't perform as expected. John Carter just had a bad strategy (AND DID YOU SEE THAT FONT ON THE POSTER?!). TRON: Legacy had an amazing ARG, but only hard-core fans really got into this, benefited from this, knew about this and were willing to spend time in this - and those fans were already fans who would have watched and supported TRON anyway. The general public didn't get involved enough with the general marketing plan, which also was not good enough.