Speculation Is Disney Capable of Learning the Lessons of John Carter and Phantom Menace?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jabbadabbado, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Avnar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    I know this is a Star Wars site -but please don't ever compare The Phantom Menace to The Dark Knight. One is brilliant the other is one of the most ridiculed films of all time for a reason.
    YoureNotJonesy likes this.
  2. TheMasterOfSoresu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 1
    Loki is a terrible villain played by a decent actor.

    What are Loki's powers as a supposed 'demi-god' anyway? Just the idea of a 'demi-god' is itself silly.

    The scene where the Black Widow speaks to Loki whilst he is in the cylinder and discovers what his 'master plan' is happens to be one of the worst scenes I have ever witnessed.

    And for someone who at the time had not seen Thor - regrettably I have now - I had no idea who Loki was as there was no character development or introduction.

    Not to mention the opening scene where Loki speaks to some alien sort was simply baffling and terribly made.

    Finally, hasn't the whole jealous brother turns villain plot been done to death?
    Darth kRud and WIERD_GREEN_MAN like this.
  3. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Please, the Dark Knight isn't that bad . . .
  4. YODA the all powerful Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 4
    Obi Zahn Kenobi beat me to it. :D
    Last edited by YODA the all powerful, Nov 1, 2012
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  5. TheMasterOfSoresu Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2011
    star 1
    I wouldn't call 'The Phantom Menace' well-thought but over-thought.

    The Dark Knight is hardly brilliance however but it succeeded where both 'Begins' and 'Rises' failed. Heath Ledger's acting and death was a key factor in its success - which I can't possibly stress enough.
  6. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    =D=
  7. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    The Norse gods in superhero movies are not accurate to the actual Norse mythology at all.
  8. DarthBlanco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2004
    star 4
    I just watched John Carter for the first time. Too much of this........[face_flag].
  9. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    AMERICA!
  10. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Dark Knight was terrorporn, and it exploited a post-9/11 mindset for shock value. Heath Ledger's Joker? I'm not laughing. Y'all have seriously drank the Kool Aid.
    The Phantom Menace, people will continue to talk about. It had the podrace and the lightsaber duel, which is two more memorable scenes than the Dark Knight.
    JainaSoloYJK likes this.
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
  12. Rox Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 2000
    star 6
    I really think the word "Mom" scared off young boys from seeing it. I'm pretty sure I remember hearing someone talk about it at Cinemacon and that had something to do why the "of Mars" was cut off of John Carter. They didn't want people thinking the movies were connected.
    Last edited by Rox, Nov 1, 2012
  13. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    But that pencil scene was the awezomes!!!! So cool how the body just disappeared off the screen while the cliche gangsters went about their business! Cinematic perfection.
  14. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    When I saw The Dark Knight, I nodded off for probably about two or three minutes and missed that "pencil trick". After the movie I read people gushing about it like it was the best thing in the whole movie.
  15. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Its honestly the only part of the movie I remembered. My jaw dropped and I cringed as people around me LAUGHED. If you thought that was funny, you're screwed up in the head. And for the record, that character is not the Joker. Sure, he got the twisted part right, but there is no joy in Ledger's performance. Who wants to vicariously kill through a psycho who can't even get his jollies properly?
  16. darthgator1217 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2005
    star 2
    People can trash TPM all they want, there is no doubt that it is a visual masterpiece.
  17. DarthBrian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 4
    Fixed.
    Alexrd and JainaSoloYJK like this.
  18. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Right on! It has all the themes of ANH and then some, and visually it's the brightest and most dynamic of all the films.

    Speakin of... (maybe I should just make a new thread about this instead) Do you think this trilogy will be set in a post-apocalyptic galaxy like Dark Empire, or in a bright new revived Republic-type setting?
  19. Bobatron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 3
    The eye and ear candy is what made the prequels, and probably the others, so addicting. I kept going to see AOTC in theaters because I wanted to hear those seismic charges, or Zam Wesell's speeder, or the "mystery theme". Jeez, would Ben Burtt be involved in newer movies? There are so many factors like that I haven't thought of yet. Sure they want to do things differently (or do they?) but also similar, so there would be a balance that could include or eliminate traits of the other six. This is why I don't expect a major director to be involved.
    Anyway, I saw John Carter independent of anything because I never saw a trailer and since I don't watch broadcast/cable TV and stuff, I didn't see a marketing campaign. I just hope Disney retains similar levels of secrecy around the STAR WARS movie. Whoa, I just thought of something: what will this mean for Spoiler Alerts on theforce.net? Lucasfilm was flexible but with Disney overseeing things, how would that go?
    Other Disney properties with lessons learned: Pirates of the Caribbean. Could we see some films in this series filmed and released closer together than every three years? That seems to be a norm lately.
    Last edited by Bobatron, Nov 1, 2012
  20. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    1. Don't let Lucas in on any of it.


    2. CGI effects if done right can enhance your film but should not be the foundation of your film.

    3. Dont try to recreate the same dynamics as the original Star Wars, this means try to break out of the exaggerated depictions of good vs evil. Try to blur the line a bit .Let the audience decide who the good and bad guys are.

    4. Take notes from Empire Strikes Back, the only one Lucas didn't direct. (Although the same as in Star Wars and Return Of The Jedi)The characters in Empire felt more human, less cheesy.

    5.If you MUST target the new films mainly to 6 year olds do so but mix in adult themes that kids wont pick up on. This can be done without getting an R rating. The new films can be made darker with more adult themes without becoming blood soaked pornography. Lucas totally failed to realize this in his last three films and in doing so alienated a large portion of his fan base. Don't make the same mistake.
    Last edited by Darth kRud, Nov 1, 2012
    Vespasian likes this.
  21. Miana Kenobi Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2000
    star 8
    Please respect that I 100% disagree with you. Heath's Joker was amazing and definitely the performance of a lifetime.

    And while I do enjoy parts of Phantom Menace, what people will constantly talk about is the negatives.
    Mar17swgirl and PrincessKenobi like this.
  22. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Sometimes I wonder why Irvin Kersher doesn't have more fans than George Lucas.
  23. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    1. Don't read this thread.

    2. While you're at it, stay away from the entire board.





    Have faith
    /LM
    JainaSoloYJK likes this.
  24. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    People don't really like Irvin Kershner. They like flinging Irvin Kershner at George Lucas, like so much monkey poo.
    Arawn_Fenn and StampidHD280pro like this.
  25. Vespasian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    Are people here really comparing Episode I to The Dark Knight? :eek: It's like comparing Edward Scissorhands to The Rock! I mean what the heavens? And for the record, I love all four of these films.

    Lessons learned from Episode I and John Carter?

    It's the same lesson actually: launch an extensive marketing campaign. Whatever you think about Episode I, you have to admit that its marketing was brilliant. I can still see Watto's face on Coca-Cola bottles.:D John Carter had no marketing campaign, none, and that's why it tanked, otherwise, it was a decently made movie. Combine the two!
    Last edited by Vespasian, Nov 2, 2012