Speculation Is Disney Capable of Learning the Lessons of John Carter and Phantom Menace?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jabbadabbado, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Commander Ciege Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Yeah they come out with a Gungan, like Jar Jar as a child
    Last edited by Commander Ciege, Nov 2, 2012
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  2. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    There was no Han Solo-type character in the PT, no-one had the sort of dialogue he had. The relationships they had were better too, you could buy into Han & Leia's relationship but not Anakin & Padme because it was stiffly acted and badly written.

    The OT has long sections (especially in ESB) where there is little action, the PT had little of that and what it then did have got boring.

    The PT isn't bad, I like it. But it's got nothing on the OT and the new films should be more like the originals were
    Commander Ciege likes this.
  3. Ben H. Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    I have given a name to my pain, and it is Jar Jar. Try not to overthink when creating new characters.
  4. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4

    I was just wondering if you were a writer or in the movie business.
  5. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    The acting in Star Wars is SO bad that people who only watch action-figure movies think the acting in TESB is good. It really isn't. Serious actors find it painful to watch. I only have anecdotal evidence for that, but guys, the acting in these movies was never meant to be good.

    And there WAS a Han Solo in the prequels, with similar dialogue.

    "I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to convince me that there's some all-powerful Force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny."

    "Oooh. Maxi big, da Force! Well that smells stinkowhiff!"

    OK, a bit of an anti-Solo. But he's there. What, Anakin wasn't enough of a rogue for you?
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  6. Vespasian Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 1
    I think in way Obi-Wan in Episode II was the most like the Han Solo character: wisecracking (or more so than the other characters), adventurous, a little cynical and fun (when not around Anakin). For me he and Dooku were the saving grace of Attack of the Clones.
    Last edited by Vespasian, Nov 2, 2012
  7. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    So your complaint is that Lucas did something original and did not create a Han Solo-type character with the same personality?

    I don't agree that the Anakin/Padme romance was "stiffly acted and badly written". Anakin had emotional problems having spent his life as either a slave or under strict Jedi rules - he just didn't know how to behave or act. I'm not really explaining myself well here (not being a writer) but Christensen portrayed him nicely as a spoilt petulant brat. A young man who can interact with society doesn't become Vader.

    I don't know what you mean by "The OT has long sections (especially in ESB) where there is little action, the PT had little of that and what it then did have got boring."
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  8. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4

    I disagree that any of the acting is bad, but you are correct that the PT haters always claim it was superior in the OT.

    Which it wasn't.

    It has been said plenty of times that Lucas picked actors with personalities similar to his characters - so many of them didn't need to act.

    Watch a few interviews with Liam Neeson and you'll see he is a lot like Qui-Gonn. Harrison Ford has the same snarky personality of Solo. Billy Dee Williams oozes charm.

    Yet whenever I mention this to haters they seem to either not respond or change the subject.
  9. JDN21 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 2
    Wow, I haven't been on this forum for about 7 years!

    Anyway, the potential new trilogy has brought me back. Hopefully it isn't a mess like the PT was. I don't like the fact that many people on here have used the Avengers as a yardstick for the new films. I thought it was one of the most boring movie-going experiences I've ever had.

    The ST needs to return to the roots of the OT. Epic storyline, properly planned out, not rushed and poorly executed like the PT. at least the new ones should have much better dialogue and human interaction seeing as Lucas won't be penning them. I'd just like the production team to take their inspiration for the tone of TESB and the Vader/Emperor/Luke scenes in ROTJ- serious and interesting and very comic book in feeling. TPM in particular set the target age far too low in my opinion - the whole film was an obvious marketing campaign for the new range of Star Wars toys available at the time.
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  10. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Agreed - for example, Charlie Sheen didn't need to try for his role on Two and a Half Men because he IS Charlie Harper.
    I think that the OT roles may have been easier in themselves to portray - many fairly one-dimensional characters, straighforward throughout.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  11. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, Star Wars isn't meant to be Shakespeare (whatever that means - sometimes even Shakespeare wasn't Shakespeare) :)

    Star Wars is about fantasy, adventure, metal bikinis, aliens, starships and hairy Wookies.
    WIERD_GREEN_MAN likes this.
  12. WIERD_GREEN_MAN Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2010
    star 4
    Yes. Star Wars is many things. Entertainment first.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  13. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I didn't say there should have been an exact copy of Han Solo in the PT, but the wise-ass arrogant guy who is the foil for the selfless hero was lacking.
    Anakin fills the Luke role in the PT, Obi Wan fills his own position & Padme is in the Leia spot. Where was the Han?
    The closest thing we got in the PT was Qui Gon, he was rebellious but still a Jedi.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Nov 2, 2012
  14. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    That's the thing, there was no room for a main character with Han Solo's personality. At different times, various supporting characters performed the "make fun of the Force" part: Jar-Jar, Watto, Dex, even Qui-Gon.
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  15. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    There is room if you make room, if Lucas was a creative-enough writer he could have filled the glaring Han Solo-sized gap with a good character.

    Dex & Jar Jar were novelty characters put in to sell toys, and one was barely in the movies at all.
  16. Avnar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    I can't believe people are trying to defend the acting in the prequels *shakes head*

    Oh well...
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  17. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Exactly, it's a visual story (that's why kids love it - they don't care about the quality of scripts and acting). Even in ESB, it's adequate at best. On the other hand, even in the prequels, it's not really worse than most other blockbusters. As long as it doesn't descend into the "too painful" territory (parts of ROTJ and AOTC) , I'm ok with that.
  18. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    They called it John Carter instead of John Carter of Mars because they were afraid girls wouldn't go see it.
  19. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    That and because previous movies they had made with Mars in the title were flops. Irony is of course that John Carter was still a flop anyway :p
  20. GargantuanThrillMachine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 1

    really? i thought that was one of the primary functions of characters like neo, john conner, johnny rico, luke skywalker, peter parker, bruce wayne, etc, etc, etc.

    also: can't tell if trolling
    Last edited by GargantuanThrillMachine, Nov 2, 2012
  21. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    The only thing Dex made fun of was the Temple archive droids.
  22. -NaTaLie- Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah, and then fans wouldn't stop complaining about how this new character is so not cool compared to our good ol' Han. I wouldn't mind seeing some down-to-earth character (non-Jedi and non-Senator), but a clone of Han Solo is not a good idea.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  23. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    Nothing screams "buy my toy, kids" quite like a greasy proprietor of a 50s diner.
    Last edited by ezekiel22x, Nov 2, 2012
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  24. StampidHD280pro Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2005
    star 4
    Exactly. Dash Rendar was this, and it was boring and kind of insulting.
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  25. yodasbum Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2004
    star 2
    In my opinion some examples of bad acting in the PT

    Phantom
    Obi Wan- The negotiations were short
    Anakin- I was wondering what are...

    Attack
    Obi Wan- hmm hmmm hmmm (elevator going to see Padme first time)
    Padme- If you follow your thoughts through to conclusion they will take to a place we can not go
    Padme- pulling away from the first kiss
    Padme/Anakin- sound of music scene

    Sith
    Palpatine- I will name you Lord..... wobbles mouth a lot.... Vader
    Palpatine- lightsaber fight waving saber around like he's blind

    In my opinion some examples of great acting in the PT

    Phantom
    Obi Wan- ready to fight Darth Maul after the death of Qui Gon
    Qui Gon- credits will do fine (smile)

    Attack
    Obi Wan- good job
    Dooku- Obi Wan integration scene
    Anakin- sand people confession scene

    Sith
    Palpatine- Opera scene
    Palpatine- coming out of the Sith closet
    Obi Wan- I loved you