Lit Is EU continuity going to be respected in ST? Shouldn't we do something to ensure it is?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darth ladnar, Apr 21, 2013.

  1. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    I'm with @Slash78 on this one. A great deal of the EU sucks in the extreme. I'd gladly trade extant canon for higher quality, seamlessly integrated stories. It's a shame that the Powers That Be (yes, this includes Lucas) were so uncooperative and disparate with one another.
  2. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    I don't quite see why continuity and good story-telling are mutually exclusive. Most of the bad writing in the EU stems not from some strawman laborious adherence to continuity, but to, well, bad writing. The closest one can come to pointing to continuity being a problem is when authors start getting really self-referential with their works, and that tends to be more along the lines of heavily referencing the movies (KJA, Denning, I'm looking at the two of you. We don't need to be reminded of the metal bikini every time Leia is onscreen, and you don't have to remind us that Luke met Han in a cantina on Tatooine. We know that, strangely enough). I'll also point to @blackmyron's sig.

    I'm not particularly expecting the current iteration of the EU to survive past 2015, but I'm not going to crow at its demise either.
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  3. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    They're not mutually exclusive. The Powers That Be haven't caught on yet, though.
  4. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    I'm still failing to see where adherence to continuity has actually caused issues, however. Continuity issues have caused flame wars, sure- but actual dips in writing quality due to adherence to continuity?
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  5. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    When you say "they made the NJO just to watch the EU burn," well...yeah, you kind of are wrong. You're allowing your own dislike of a series to manifest itself as fact, and using that place of malcontent to attribute false reasoning to the creation of the series. That's several flavors of wrong right there.

    Because whether you like it or not, your opinion is not the only one. There are countless people who thoroughly enjoyed the NJO series, and numerous others who liked what followed. We should care if the ST overwrites that because people have invested themselves in these works―emotionally, mentally, financially―and they hold a place in the Star Wars universe that is supposed to mean something beyond a cash grab that will just be plowed over later.
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  6. Grand Admiral Crumb Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2013
    star 1
    Why would Disney buy the Star Wars franchise, and then discard a rather significant portion of it? They didn't just buy the movies, they bought the LFL and everything that comes with it. Besides, if they throw away the books they can't ever adapt them or develop anything within those stories ever. Star Wars is known for telling the stories between the stories. If they have the ST take place 30+ABY they've still got to fill in the gaps, unless they're going say the Empire just disintegrated immediately after Endor and everyone just sat around waiting for the next movie.
  7. Slash78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 3
    I'm tired of hearing how great the NJO was...because it wasn't.
  8. Slash78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 3
    Actually that have a TV show planned. More money for Disney is they trump it then if they say it's all good. As much as I love some of the EU, it's grown to the point it's like Star Trek. It's bloated, you can't do anything that hasn't been done. You can't say anything that doesn't contradict something else. The post-RotJ era needs a clean slate and a cohesive vision. Not a grab back of authors all trying to put their own spin on it.
  9. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Frankly, it was a damn fine response to an idiotic petition - and yeah, it had style, it was a reply that wove in several SW lines with humour and made serious points.

    Changing tack....

    I'm never going to be a fan of Troy Denning's vision of SW - his is one that is cruel, dark and vicious and it really isn't for me. But..... Do I believe that he woke up each day with the intent to screw over the characters and do a really crappy piece of work just to get a pay cheque? And after that he doesn't give a toss? No.

    This conspiracy theory of fandom is tedious in the extreme and utterly unwarranted. I can disagree point blank with what was done in LOTF, ask what the hell were they thinking and my conclusion is that it's a gigantic and sustained cock-up. Similarly I disagree point blank with some of the creative decisions made in NJO but don't think they were out to kill the EU. I think I know what they were up to and it was a misapplied idea at best but that's a separate point entirely...
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  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    That's, like, your opinion, man.

    I think the Thrawn trilogy sucks but that doesn't mean other people can't talk about how much they liked it.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, May 18, 2013
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  11. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    A1983, you know better!

    There is but 1 image that must be used to make that point!

    [IMG]
  12. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    I just publicly endorsed you and you make me look bad with such authoritative declarations. :oops:
  13. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    So make it non-canon to fit your preferred vision of Star Wars?
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  14. LelalMekha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    Well, I would do that with The Clone Wars anytime, so I'm not sure I can blame him.
    Garrett Atkins likes this.
  15. Slash78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 3
    I'm sure they will cherry pick some stuff from the current EU, but they hands shouldn't be tied by the overwhelming heap of garbage that is large chucks of the EU. Unless you want the movies to totally suck. Anyway, George wrote the store treatments before selling to Disney, so the EU is out anyway. A new show and I'm sure new novels will paint or repaint the post-RotJ galaxy.

    I find it kind of funny though. Back in the day those who felt the contrarian need to hate the Thrawn Trilogy would talk about how "great" Dark Empire and the Jedi Academy trilogy were. Even though they definitely weren't. Then it became the NJO. I'm sure it would have been the LOTF next if they weren't so awful.

    I'm sick of the post-Dark Empire EU. Why? BECAUSE EVERYTHING HAS TO BE BIGGER, BETTER OR BADDER!!!!!!!!. Serious, Kyp Durron, is the most power force use FOREVERZ!!!! Yuuzan Vong were the most powerful enemies FOREVERZ!!!!! So powerful that the Empire was really building up to fight them, not the Rebellion. If fact they were so power that the OT becomes nothing more then a footnote and that well, if the Empire had won the GCW then the galaxy would have been better off. Which is total bullshit. Not only that but the total unwillingness of any of the authors to move on to other characters. It's still all about Luke, Han and Leia. Hell, they keep dragging out poor old Wedge Antilles. Can't they just let him retire?

    Why do I like the Thrawn Trilogy and don't like the NJO? Because it was a continuation of the OT. The NJO trivializes everything that comes before. Basically the Empire, the Sith, nothing that comes before the Yuuzan Vong invasion is important because they are the "real" enemy that everyone is the Star Wars galaxy should have been preparing for over the last 50 years. Bullshit.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I didn't take the Vong as "greater than the Sith" by any means, just a new enemy.
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  17. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Still wrong
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  18. Slash78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 3
    No. They pointed out several times that the Yuuzan Vong were the GREATEST threat EVER. It was pointed out in the NJO, in following books and in PT-NJO tie-ins. Greater than the Sith-Republic conflicts, greater than the Clone Wars or GCW, greater than everything.
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I said that I didn't take it that way. And while I'm only on book 4, I have yet to come across Luke saying "the Vong is a greater threat than Palpatine." When he makes that statement, I'll be on board with your perception.

    The greatest threat the New Republic has faced? Probably so, and if that undermines Thrawn--GOOD.

    But the Alliance is not the New Republic, and as of yet I have not seen anything indicating that the Vong were more frightening to Luke or Leia than Palpatine's Empire.
  20. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I'm hoping that the EU is respected by the ST but I'm not holding my breath. I've been a fan of the books since the late 90's so a change like that will not be fun.
    Planet of Twilight, The Force Unleashed I and II, Children of the Jedi, post NJO as a whole (even though I do like certain parts of that era), TCW aren't that good but they are mostly fun so the new books will have big shoes to fill.
    The NJO era minus Dark Nest Trilogy is the best era in Star Wars.
  21. _Catherine_ Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    This is not said anywhere in the NJO. All they say about the Empire is that they would have beaten the Yuuzhan Vong. Which to me seems to run counter to the idea that the YV were a more powerful threat.

    I kind of doubt this, since the Vong are barely even mentioned in the post-NJO. At best maybe you've got some back-cover blurbs saying they're the most dangerous enemy Luke and Co. have faced since Palpatine. The Vong themselves even admit that they couldn't have beaten the Empire, so idg what the big deal is here.
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  22. Slash78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 3
    Would that be the same Empire that was beaten by Ewoks?

    People assume the Empire is badass because of the uniforms, militarism, etc. But militarism doesn't necessarily lead to a competent military. And the Empire hadn't ever shown itself to be competent. Shadowbox with the CIS throughout the Clone Wars? When the same guy was basically running both sides. We've seen them kill some Jawas, kill a pair of farmers. Yes, they built the Death Star, but you don't need military competence, just engineering skills. They over-whelmed the base on Hoth. Then there ground forces got beating by a bunch of teddy bears and in a space battle where they had overwhelming numbers they were beaten badly by a gambler in an old rust bucket and some fishfaced guys with a few ships.

    Militarism hides incompetence much greater then it promotes competence. Look at WW1. Lots of Militarism, lots of pretty uniforms and grand titles to begin and no competence what so ever.
  23. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Now you're just not making any sense. How do you make a case against the idea of the Yuuzhan Vong being a potentially greater threat than the Empire...by stating how much of a non-threat the Empire actually was? Never mind that you base that argument on hyperbolic assessments of movie-only actions, if the Star Wars universe were to follow this line of logic, nothing else of interest or consequence would ever happen because it can't be allowed to exceed the standard of something that is already sub-standard.
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  24. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Quite so.

    It's important to separate out the EU works and their marketing, as the two tend to be quite different. It is, for instance, the nature of marketing to do this:

    As opposed to:



    Which one of those blurbs sells the book? Hint: It ain't the first one!

    Yet, when considered more objectively, were the Vong a greater threat than Sidious? It depends on how you measure it. In terms of the physical, yes - the Vong's object was to sling everyone into Embraces of Pain for their lifespan, on the other hand, that doesn't touch the soul. The Vong wished to control and dominate certainly, but they had little interest in corruption. Sidious did! For Sidious the aim is not only to control the galaxy, but do so in such a way that day-to-day life is structured so as to require individuals to willingly corrupt their selves, to willingly walk into the dark side and stay there! Now, of these two, which is greater? Both are great evils but distinctly different - for me, Sidious remains top dog - and there are other further arguments that can also be made for him being villain numero uno in any case.

    As to the notion of the Empire being more effective against the Vong, that's based on their lack of moral principles restraining their latitude to act - the Empire would have likely used Alpha Red, where would that have ended? Probably a dead galaxy! Certainly the NR could and should have fought the war more effectively, much of the blame for that has to go to the insecure political fools that tied the military's hand, but it should never have gone to the extreme of becoming the Empire. Which is to say? Extermination and genocide of the Vong as the first resort, not the last. As ever, in SW, the nature of the victory matters as much as the victory itself.
  25. FatSmel Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 2012
    star 3
    I couldn't care less if the Sequel trilogy ignores the rest of the EU. As long as it's good.
    It's not like they are going to come to my house and confiscate all my EU books so I can't read them anymore . . . are they????????
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