Saga Is Force-sensitivity always hereditary?

Or is the Force only occasionally hereditary? Or is it exclusively hereditary in the case of the Skywalker bloodline.

This is a pretty important and often overlooked aspect to the Star Wars universe. I went so far as to ask Pablo Hidalgo about it and he was characteristically as coy as ever, not saying anything.

But when The twins are born and Kenobi and Organa agree to hide them from the Empire, do they expect these children to grow up to be unusually force-sensitive? In other words, is OB1 merely looking out for the well being of Luke by hiding him from his evil father, or is he looking out for the well being of the galaxy by hiding a potential super weapon that one day could destroy the Sith?

If it is always hereditary, would not OB1 immediately start mass producing babies after the Jedi purge? And Ezra surely would have a "for the good of the galaxy" discussion with Ahsoka, no? We know it is the Jedi way to not have families and form attachments, but surely this rule has a caveat when they've been nearly wiped out. Even if it is only occasionally hereditary I would think the remaining Jedi would have to at least try to produce a new generation, right?

So I have to assume OB1 does not expect Luke to be force-sensitive, but when he discovers that he is, only then does he make arrangements to train him. Unless OB1 is operating under the instructions of Yoda, who is sensing that Luke or Leia are the New Hope he had visions of in the final arc of The Clone Wars.

So if in the films to come, we see Force children from anyone other than the Skywalker line, I'm going to have an issue with it.

 

It's most definitely not always hereditary, otherwise the Jedi wouldn't have been able to maintain their numbers. Their primary recruiting method is to take children who show high Midi-counts. Their parents cannot already have high counts, otherwise they would have been found the Jedi themselves.

Plus Shmi isn't Force Sensitive while Anakin is, though is the whole 'virgin birth' thing going on there, which leaves it a little fuzzy.

 

No, being more sensible to the Force is not always hereditary.

Source?

 

Well, it's implied from Qui-Gon's lines in TPM.

He says that had Anakin been identified as a Force Sensitive as a baby, he would have been taken and trained. In TCW, we also see that the Jedi have a list of Force-Sensitive children, presumably there's some kind of census to determine midi-count (that would be the easiest way to determine potential force wielders). When exactly the children are taken is unknown, but it must be between birth and the age of 9 judging by Anakin being too old.

 

All he says is that had Anakin been born within the Republic he would have been identified earlier. That is not necessarily related to midi-chlorians. Qui-Gon only requested a midi-chlorian count after Shmi told him that there was no father in Anakin's conception, and all of that happened after Qui-Gon sensed that the Force was unusually strong in Anakin, even for a potential Jedi. The fact that he had such an high midi-chlorian count was what made him realize that he could be the prophetized Chosen One destined to bring balance to the Force.

 

I suppose you could be right.

I just assumed a midi-test for all children in the Republic would be the easiest way for the Jedi to locate prospective students. That way the Jedi don't have to personally sense the force potential of every child born in the galaxy.

 

It's a possibility, just not a certainty. That was my point.

 

Is a high midi count always passed on?

I've asked that question before and the films don't say for certain.

Given that Luke and Leia were assumed to be strong in the Force due to Anakin's high count, that does imply that a high count is passed on.
Obi-Wan and Yoda did assume this and most likely they would have other examples of this happening in order for them to think that this will be the case here.
So they have encountered others that had a high count and had children who had inherited this high count.
Qui-Gon does ask Shmi about Anakin's father. He senses the Force in Anakin but probably not in Shmi so he possibly assumed that Anakin got his Force potential from his father.

I've said this in another thread but in the PT era, I would assume that the parents are given a choice whether to give up their children or not. And I would have to think that some would want to keep their children with them since the alternative is to never see them again. So there would be a number of people that were offered to become Jedi but didn't. Or rather their parents were asked.
And what about those that wash out of the Jedi program?
Those that show bad tendencies or are simply kicked out?
They still have their high count and could have children.
Or what about if there are Jedi that DO fall in love and wants to marry and have children and thus leave the order.
Their children will also have a high count.
In short, there would be people with a midi count high enough to make them Jedi material.
But for some reason Obi-Wan isn't concerned with them.

As for how the PT-Jedi find new candidates, I do think that a midi-test as part of a standard test for newborn's in the republic is the most likely method that they use.
Give that we have a galaxy with millions of planets and that the Jedi are quite busy and wouldn't have time to run around and sense all new born children in the whole galaxy. And given that they take in new Jedi at a very young age, say around 1-2 years old and at that age, the child is not likely to be able to use the Force much.
The Jedi knows about midis and it seems that all Jedi have done such a test since Yoda's number is known and higher than all other Jedi.

But say that a high count IS always passed on, what does this mean?
If a couple where one parent have a count of 2000 and the other has a count of 5000, all their children will have the 5000 count.
Those children will in turn have children with as high a count if not higher in case they meet someone that has an even higher count.
This will mean that the average midi count will increase over time.
That more and more people with high counts will be born and low counts will slowly be bred out.
That a high count is like a dominant gene but here it always comes through.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Frankly, I took it to be that Force-sensitivity was hereditary, but one didn't need to have Force-sensitive parents to win the lottery to have it yourself; kind of like the X-Gene in X-Men; mutants who have families will have mutant children by default, but non-mutant parents can also have mutant children.

Can't find any info on how canon is handling it, but I know Legends stated that in the prequel-era, Force-sensitive children were legally required to join Jedi Order (in fact, some Legends stories even touched on the idea that some people saw it as legalized kidnapping). Legends also had Luke, when reforming the Jedi, changing the policy to being purely voluntary (and also seemed to start students at an older age).

 

Well my knowledge of the EU is very limited but I recall reading about both.
Some EU stories say that a midi test is standard and the parents are given a choice.
And others say what you mention.
I vaguely recall some story about a woman that did give up her child but later changed her mind and went to court to get her child back and even hired a bounty hunter to steal her child back.
But this was long ago so I could be misremembering.

And much of this might not be canon any more.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

although proof is difficult, i see it as often hereditary. i posted about this in a different thread (but in it i remembered the order of events wrong), and noted that qui-gon asks shmi who anakin's father was. this was before the midichlorian count. the line was: "the force is unusually strong with him, that much is certain. who was his father?" why would qui-gon ask if it's not often hereditary. he can see shmi appears not to be FS so he inquires about the other parent. (eta: though you could try to counter-argue that qui-gon is already obsessed with this 'chosen one' prophesy and is hoping she'll say it was an immaculate conception... but he's not yet seen how Anakin's midichlorian count is so incredibly off the charts lol)

i think that this is the strongest proof even more so than lines in the OT such as "the emperor knew as i did, that if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him." that also suggests it's hereditary, but there could be ways to discount it with prophesy specifics we don't know about or how Qui-Gon recently made his way back as a Force ghost and had been in communication with Yoda, and later Obi-Wan. and i mean one could try some other argument with the Emperor (like oooooh he knew Anakin was born as a consequence of Darth Plagueis meddling in things or whatever). Still, the line is pretty indicative that it's often hereditary.

so basically how i see it is that if one has a bio parent strong in the force, it is likely they too will be strong with the force. likely (as in, in most cases--not all cases). this doesn't however mean that it's impossible for someone to be born to parents who displayed no FS and be FS. it may be unlikely (i don't know), but it probably happens as well.

if this was all intended to be "it's only hereditary for skywalkers" they should have had different dialogue in the films.

and PS: the midichlorians live in your cells. your cells are made from material from both parents. so if one of your parents has high concentrations in their cells, you probably will end up with a high concentration at conception.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever (but then again, it's the EU we're talking about). To take children away from their families without their consent is hardly compatible with the Jedi way or of a democracy like the Republic. By that logic, Anakin would have been taken without being asked or without Shmi's approval.

"legally required to join the Order"

Ha.

 

In "Jedi Apprentice: The Fight For Truth", four Jedi are invited to the planet Kegan to test and see if a child named O-Lana was to be trained. They gave the parents a choice. In "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter", people went to the Temple on a pilgrimage to see if their children could be trained. There was no mention of a law. Lorn Pavan was an employee of the Temple whose son, Jax, was tested and they asked permission to train him and it was granted. In the three episode arc "Holocron Heist", "Cargo Of Doom" and "Children Of The Force", the Sith hire Cad Bane to steal a Holocron that contained a database of all known Force sensitive children who have been cataloged, but not trained. The two part episode, "The Disappeared" had the Dagoyan Masters of Bardotta accuse the Jedi of stealing children from their world, but the Council disputes this as a misunderstanding. The Jedi and the Dagoyan have different views about how to use the Force.

 

It's not always hereditary, as I believe there are Jedi who's parents weren't force sensitive....but I do think it increases the chances of being born Force sensitive if one, or better yet, both of your parents are strong in the Force.

I mean, the Jedi apparently do a test on a persons blood to gauge their midichlorian count as Qui Gon did on Tatooine once finding Anakin, so it would be logical to assume that genetics do play a part, but it can probably skip a generation or two occasionally.

 

The story you're thinking of is probably, "Children of the Force" (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Children_of_the_Force_(comic)), from Star Wars Tales #13.

In Outbound Flight, there's a custody battle between Master Jorus C'Beaoth and a family on the mission; the former wants to take a Force-sensitive child, the parents refuse. C'Beaoth wins the argument in a hearing that settles the matter using Republic law. Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader also has a parent who lost a child to the Jedi through legal means. As I recall, the Jedi Path book also had a section that detailed how Jedi found children. That source specifically stated that Force-sensitive children were legally required to turned over to the Jedi (the Jedi's position was that the Force had chosen the kid for that life, which overruled parental decisions).

 

Remember in AOTC Windu said "We should inform the Senate about are inability to use the Force" Well it could be that the Dark side was getting stronger.

But it could also mean that for the last few hundred years since the Jedi weren't "breading", could mean that every new generation was getting "weaker".

 

Tarre Viszla was Force Sensitive. Pre Viszla, his descendant, was not.

Sometimes, not always.

/thread.

 

Based on what I know about genetics (which isn't tons), one could compare whatever genes control Force sensitivity to the genes that control hair color. Say you have three different couples. To make this a little bit easier, we'll give them names.

Let's start with the first couple, Dick and Jane. Dick and Jane both have dark hair. Almost everyone in their families has dark hair too. Because of this, Dick and Jane's children are almost guaranteed to have dark hair, but it is possible, though very unlikely, that they could have a child with blonde hair.

Next we have John and Mary. John and Mary both have blonde hair, and so does almost everyone in their families. Therefore, their children are almost guaranteed to have blonde hair, but there is still a small chance that they could have a child with dark hair.

Finally we have Fred and Susan. Fred has dark hair and Susan has blonde hair. Both their families have some people with blonde hair and some people with dark hair. Fred and Susan will have some children with dark hair and some children with blonde hair, but because dark hair is more dominant than blonde hair, they will probably have more children with dark hair.

I think that Force sensitivity works in a similar way. If both parents are Force sensitive, their children will probably all be Force sensitive, but they might have one that isn't. If both parents are not Force sensitive, it's most likely that none of their children will be Force sensitive either, but they might have one that is. If one parent is Force sensitive and the other is not, they will probably have some children that are Force sensitive and some that are not.

 

"The Crystal Star" was one of the first novels to expound on this concept, when we are introduced to Hethrir, a dark side adept who has a son who was not Force sensitive and the boy's mother wasn't very strong in the Force either.

Their powers were weakening because the dark side is growing stronger. Had nothing to do with breeding.

 

She seemed fairly strong to me - at least "average Jedi" level. Her skillset ran more to healing:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rillao

but both Vader and Hethrir were annoyed at her lack of affinity for The Dark Side.

The Baby Ludi story (Holonet News) fits the "went to court" bit, as well.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aris-Del_Wari

 

If force sensitivity (either mystical or midi-chlorian based) can be passed on to your progeny, it begs the question, why didn't Sith and Jedi had some kind of Bene Gesserit breeding program to create the Chosen one (Messiah).

Sorry I know it's DUNE, but the premise is the same.

Why neither Jedi or Sith are shown to have progeny?. If the Force can be passed, then you would expect either the Jedi or Sith take advantage of this to create better or more recruits.

Perhaps something happened 1000s of years before TPM when the Force was first "discovered" where the first Force users tried to do this and it back-fired?

Perhaps Anakin's progeny is a special case. I.E. There is some other prophecy about it and the Force will continue to be strong with them.

Basically you can see from canon that, at least in Anakin's case, the force is hereditary. From Anakin to Luke and Leia and from Leia to Ben.

 

Not at all. The notion that force-sensitivity is hereditary would imply that the same family trees would be visited over and over again by Jedi looking for force-sensitives. However, immense power in the force can come from being the offspring of force-sensitives. Just look at the Skywalker/Solo family, and even Galen Marek.

 

I meant that if you could "breed" force sensitive people. Wouldn't they have tried to promote their top Jedi to have progeny to create even more powerful Jedi?

I understand the attachment bit. But the Sith doesn't have these limitations. They promote it. So why not breed Sith?