Is Germany right to ban a couple naming their child Osama Bin Laden

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Pit Droid, Sep 6, 2002.

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  1. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Well, I have the child's best interests at heart, and if you can't see it, too bad. I guess you're too busy caring about fetuses. :(
  2. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    I love the way all your arguments include a statement like, "If you don't agree with me, there's something wrong with you." :D
  3. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    There IS something wrong with someone that forces a rape victim to carry a pregnancy to term, or who thinks Bin Laden did right.
  4. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I wish we could debate a bit more intelligently here instead of using immature comments...

    But since when is it our job (or the German government, for that matter) to decide what is and isn't good for the child? (and I go back to the natural right of the pursuit of happiness for this - I assume that the German government will provide every opportunity for the child to live a happy life, regardless of his name) ...it's just a name, anyways. Maybe I'm the only one who's seeing this, but it seems to me like the German government is overlooking the bigger issue here. The father is obviously a supporter of Bin Laden's terrorist efforts, and should be expelled from the country! That way, the child could be raised with a normal name and we could avoid the whole issue of name-calling and finger-pointing, or whatever this argument is about anyways.

    And Rebecca - there is something wrong with YOU for assuming that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is a supporter of Bin Laden, and for dragging a completely different subject into this debate just to anger your opponents. Debates are supposed to test our logic, not our emotions.
  5. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    The government does decide what is best for a child, in some cases. When the authorities know a child is being abused by parents, the child is removed from that home, REGARDLESS of what the parents want.
  6. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    Rebecca - How 'bout we drop you off on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan and let you tell all those folks that there's something wrong with them? Now that's something I'd like to see. :D


    The father is obviously a supporter of Bin Laden's terrorist efforts, and should be expelled from the country!

    Can anyone say "thought police"? The law can punish you for your actions (like, if you financially aid someone in a terrorist activity), but not for your beliefs.
  7. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    That's true Rebecca, but a child's name is something different. Governments only have the responsibility to protect children from direct abuse (whether phsyical or verbal), not prevent them from *possibly* being verbally abused in the future by immature schoolchildren and adults alike.

    Besides, I think we're still missing the point here. The German government did not go about this in the right way. Did you read what the father said in that article? Apparently it's okay for terrorists to live in Germany now.

    Edit - The law can punish you for your actions (like, if you financially aid someone in a terrorist activity), but not for your beliefs.

    Right, and perhaps I was a bit off-base for suggesting that the government expel him from the country. However, it would be wise for the German government to stricten its immigration policies, wouldn't you say? ;) That man is potentially dangerous, but of course the word *potentially* doesn't mean much. :p
  8. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Evil is a matter of perspective and opinion. You cannot stop somebody from doing something because you don't like what they're doing. Like cwrn said, your opinion is irrelevant.

    Not your opinion on the issue(again, sorry for not making myself clear) your opinon on Osama bin Laden.

    On my "opinion" that Bin Laden is evil.

    And the name is a form of emotional abuse. Myself and others have said that in this thread already.
  9. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    But it is not the government's responsibility to decide whether or not certain names are okay for a child! Because the act of actually naming the child is NOT abuse! If, in the future, the child is verbally abused, then the government can take action. But they CAN NOT stop parents from naming their child a certain thing. It is not a direct act intended to cause abuse.
  10. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    And the name is a form of emotional abuse. Myself and others have said that in this thread already.

    You know, the father obviously doesn't intend it as a negative, abusive name. If he wants to raise his son as a believer in Osama Bin Laden and a hater of the U.S., what right does the government have to stop him?
  11. Obi Wan Bergkamp Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 1998
    star 3
    As has been pointed out in the 'Is anyone born pure evil thread' thread, noone in a good versus evil debate/war/jihad whatever ever says they are on the side of evil.

    Terrorism is wrong. Full stop. What happened on Sept 11 was an obscene act of terrorism. So was the Canary Wharf bomb which killed a friend of mine. But you will find people, probably even some on these boards who will claim the IRA as 'freedom fighters' and who may argue that the bombing was justified. To them they are on the good side, to me they are murdering scum.

    Bin Laden's suporters died on those planes knowing they struck a blow against the Great Satan for the forces of right. To us they are evil we are good. To them we are evil they are good.

    But all of that doesn't cover the question of should the Government step in to prevent wrong naming. Poor Romeo Beckham was barely 18 hours old and had "Why for art thou Romeo" headlines on many papers. Ultimately I believe the parents have a resposibilty to the child to answer as truthfully as they can when he asks "Why did you name me..."
  12. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    But there are basic human standards. We all want to live, so how can we deprive others of their lives, whatever the cause? Anyone who thinks what they did on 9/11 is good, is a twisted, evil *censored*.
  13. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I agree with you Rebecca, but when it comes to doing things in the name of a god, religion, or any other 'almighty' cause, humans have always become barbaric. After all, the Crusades were carried out by Westerners.

    But anyways...we're getting off-topic now...
  14. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Which is one of the reasons I despise religion.

    Sigh. I need a break from the real world. Maybe I'll go read a trashy novel or something.
  15. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Religion isn't a bad thing, it just has some problems. However, believing in something is much better than believing in nothing.

    Now how in God's name did we get so off-topic so quickly? :D
  16. ShadowDragon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2002
    star 1
    Hmm... I'd have to say let the parents name the child Osama bin Laden, but allow the child to change the name, and make sure he knows he can change the name. IMO, that would be the most fair solution. Not a desirable solution, but the best I can think of.
  17. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I agree, ShadowDragon. Let the child chose to change it when he gets old enough to understand, not the government.
  18. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    On one hand it's down right disgusting and frankly not only should the parents be allowed to name their child OBL, but I would go so far as to take the child away.

    However the government has really not right to do this. Let the rest of the world pass it's own judgement on those parents and let their community deal with it by alienating those two idiots and let them be stoned to death or something. However having the government will not make a difference, but let popular opinion of the masses determine how these morons are treated, and then let the law turn the cold shoulder when the father is beaten or they get threating letters and tell the parents we are not going to do anything because of your stupidity. However this child shouldn't be blamed or hurt because some dumb parents want to name their child after a evil sadistic killer.

  19. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    I think it is perfectly reasonable for a government to prevent certain names from being used. They have laws on what one can change ones name to, why could they not have laws on what people can name their child?

    The government needs to protect children from idiotic parents.
  20. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Very true Coolguy. The last thing this kid needs is first off two idiot parents, and then pays for the sins of his parents by being picked on and messed with until the day he dies.

    I don't understand how these parents don't see this and would want this for their child.

    I honestly think the child should be taken away.
  21. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Just to make something clear, I doubt the kid would be bullied if he were named Osama, you know why? Because kids really don't grasp what happend at Sept. 11th, if anything, his name would be viewed as "cool" when they actually get to know the meaning of it.

    By the time he gets to the age of bullying, it won't be because of his name.

    EDIT- I do hope you understand that Europe ain't America, I heard some kid say "Osama's cool dude!" just yesterday, Kids don't grasp that stuff. Here in Europe NY is awfully far away. Just like you hear American kids say "Cool" when they see a war movie about WWII with Germans being killed.
  22. shocktrooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 3
    If governments shouldn't make the rules then whats the point of them? to collect taxes?

    Of course the german government has the right to disallow the child being named that for what ever reason they choose, Like it or not its the governments role in civilised society to make rules and laws so that we remain civilised (no matter how nit picky these laws seem). There are laws get over it, the whole freedom thing has been taken way to far in recent yrs and thats how the terrorists got away with what they did, there are way to many do gooders in today's society saying the government can't do this or that.

    You can't tell me the parents of this child didn't know this name would be contraversial when they submitted it. IMO opinion if you do not accept the social order of the country you now reside LEAVE! Go to a country with your values. I for one live in a western country and on the night of Sept11 while I was watching the towers crumble live on Tv,I was horrified the next morning to find out in a suburb not to far away from me people where celebrating in the streets.This from a group who has stopped our public schools from celebrating christmas and Easter with our children (for it is direspectful to their beliefs)and then teach their children that we are demons. What blatant disrespect they have for western civilisation and what blatant disrespect those parents have for the german way of life. Down with do gooders and in with social order.
  23. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    If governments shouldn't make the rules then whats the point of them? to collect taxes?

    Uh... How about to protect people's rights? That's their purpose in theory, anyway. And whose rights are being violated here?
  24. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    Bec, I don't think you realize that the instant we make an exception and decide to "save" a child from his name we start to destroy the foundation of our country. This one child may suffer because of his name, but it is necessary. Harsh isn't it?
  25. Tupolov Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    Well, they have the right to but why they would want to is a mystery to me.
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