PT Is Hayden's Anakin iconic?

I wouldn't be proud if Damon Lindelof and Simon Pegg praised anything I ever did. I've never heard of Brian Singer...

 

Yeah yeah. So if you were some obscure would be film maker & you posted your own video to Youtuibe, you wouldn't be even slightly chuffed that famous industry identities like those praised your work?? Of course you would.

Singer directed films including X-Men 1 & 2, The Usual Suspects etc.

 

Well not really those. I don't like Damon Lindelof, I think he's a pretty bad writer. Simon Pegg, well he's an OK actor who works best when he got his pal Nick Frost by his side. I don't hate them or anything. I just don't think them praising RLM is doing RLM any good... but I wouldn't be surprised if there was someone who I looked up to who did agree with those video reviews. Mike Stoklasa has a great technique of enhancing his arguments with silly jokes and imaginary rules.

 

Well it did help him bcs it got him publicity & attention. Some of those guys tweeted their praise of his reviews. Whether you like them or not they're still near the top of their industry, so getting compliments from them would be pretty cool.

 

I guess so, but.. prequel haters... original trilogy haters.. all the same to me. Irrational. So someone praising their work would just be a sign that this particular person is someone I should avoid in the future.

 

Yep given this is a SW fan site, alot of people around here dismiss the RLM reviews. That's understandable. Some of his observations are actually highly rational though. The irony is that completely dismissing his thoughts & labeling them irrational bcs they're negative is irrational in itself. If you look at his reviews objectively there are some great points.
I actually find alot in his reviews interesting & entertaining. Given Pegg & Lindelof are fans there's a good chance JJ may have seen them. I hope so bcs they definitely highlight some things to avoid in the ST.

 

I'm labeling them irrational because they are. He might have some minor valid points (I don't think any movie out there is flawless), but nothing enough to label the prequels bad movies. Which is exactly what he does. The reason why people hate the prequels is not because of the prequels... there is an underlying reason as to why people dislike them so much.

 

It's subjective of course, but I don't think it's a stretch to call TPM a "bad movie". There are alot of great movies around & when measured against them I think TPM could be considered if not "bad" then pretty average. All comes down to opinion of course.

 

Oh sure, there are plenty of movies better than TPM... or TESB. But that doesn't mean they are bad movies. Everyone puts the prequels to different standards than the originals. If there are plenty of better movies than TPM.. now suddenly TPM is a bad movie, but not the originals. If there is CGI in the prequels.. they suck.. but not the countless of movies out today with CGI which the same people who criticize the prequels for their CGI enjoy. Double standards. I think even George himself pointed this out. "There is duality." Like I said, there is an underlying issue as to why people dislike the prequels.

 

Darth_Downunder, I'm just guessing you're from Australia...did you get to the May the Fourth screening yesterday? It was great fun!

In any case, I think it is perfectly valid for people to like and enjoy the prequel trilogy, including TPM. I've not really been a part of the RLM debate, but having only just seen the original films again I'm in the process of reevaluating them. As I've explained in another thread, I just can't engage with them to the same extent that I can engage with and enjoy the prequel films. Alec Guiness doesn't have enough screen time, Han is a jerk, the droids get boring very quickly, the impact of the Alliance on the Empire at large is unbelievable (they have, what, a few thousand personnel at a secret base and somehow manage to defeat the entire Galactic Empire? At least the Confederacy is a credible threat with their millions of droid soldiers) etc, etc. I still love the films, but quite frankly I find them to be insular and repetative in places. Don't even get me started on Ewoks!

Are they great, classic movies? You betchya! I just don't like them as much as I used to. All of which is to say that it is possible (if uncommon) to have a critical 'dialogue' (to use a neutral sounding term) with the original movies as well. Does this invalidate criticisms that the prequels have received? Not one iota. That is a separate argument. Nevertheless useful comparisons can be made, and in my opinion the OT doesn't always come out on top (though often, it does).

[End rant]

 

I really feel like I should be doing a video rebuttal to RedLetterMedia's arguments dissecting them step by step.. but unfortunately I don't have the time or resources to do it... and I'm not a very good comedian.. oh and I don't have a girlfriend who would agree to letting me tie her up in the basement to make my points come across. Perhaps the intelligent thing to do would just be ignore anyone who could have such opinions about great movies like the prequels.. but at the same time I'm getting tired of people passing those reviews around as irrefutable proof that the prequels sucks.

 

I can't say that I've heard that said very often. I've heard it said that he's funny and that he makes some good points quite often.

This is veering a fair way off topic by the way.

 

I didn't make it unfortunately. Will go again next year!

You're spot on, no ones opinion is "wrong". IMO the OT has far better & more sincere performances. That's one glaring difference to me. The PT consisted of too many actors who seem to be just reading out the lines they've learned rather than inhabiting the character. Each to their own though. I love alot of the PT & Ep3 is one of my favorite movies in the Saga.

 

What's so, um, interesting about such things is a lot of folks complain about Carrie and Harrison all but sleep-walking through ROTS (granted, 1 of 3 movies), yet somehow that is conveniently forgotten in favor of "actors just reading out lines they've learned" in the PT.

How about Ewan? Liam? Ian? Pernilla?

Even Hayden, whom I'm no - no, scratch that, Anakin (because I don't know whether to blame the script, the directing/writing or the acting) whom I'm no fan of, greatly improved upon, oh, my 16th viewing of ROTS.

 

Not iconic, but infamous

 

They're not forgetting anything, 'conveniently' or otherwise. It's more of a matter of, "two wrongs don't make a right" or better yet not using the old 'O.T. quoque' fallacy*.

* "the OT did it too!!!"

 

Well, while I do think that the PT has it's flaws, and arguing in the fashion of "the OT did it too" is all too common, it does seem a lot of prequel bashers are just being biased against the trilogy they didn't grow up with. It's not that far-fetched an argument in defence of the prequels.

The prequels tried something different to the OT, and while it isn't as masterfully executed as the OT was, there is a complexity to the prequels that can really go unappreciated. I do think the prequels are more pretencious in that they demand a lot more from the viewer, but if you let these movies be a part of the same series as the originals, there are aspects that really reward you for being a fan of the whole saga. Lucas really put more work into a re-worked narrative (1-6) than I think he is given credit for. If you let yourself see them as the same series it actually pays off immensely.

Anakin's slide in opposite directions in each trilogy is something that stands out to me; in TPM he is wholly good, then the passion in AOTC begins his turn from seeking the power to save his loved ones becoming power for powers sake --- this inverts the OT, where he is wholly bad in ANH (Anakin is "dead") but his passion to use Luke to overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy turns into just wanting Luke alive for less selfish reasons. It really makes the "musical" aspect of the six movie saga Lucas talks about worthwhile.

 

Wow. I'm honestly embarrassed for you. Seriously.

And I thank you, son, for PERFECTLY demonstrating my point and proving me right.

 

Opinions are now right or wrong, eh?

~~~

OT vs PT is valid in this context. You can criticize the PT all you like for all the flaws you see, but if you willfully ignore the same flaws in the OT, you've got blinders on and IMHO have torpedoed your own credibility.

 

This poor thread.

 

Agreed. It saddens me that so often difference in perception descends into needless fighting. Some think Hayden as Anakin is iconic and some don't. The PT and OT both have flaws. They even share some of the same ones. People disagreeing on perception doesn't have to equal the loss of civility on either side. Can we all please breathe?

 

Few people would describe Hayden's Anakin as iconic. It was by no means a great performance but not as bad as it is often made out to be. I also think he stepped it up quite a bit from AOTC to ROTS

 

Iconically bad

 

Honestly, yes. There IS such a thing as a wrong opinion. Some opinions are just more thought out and informed than others. To say otherwise is not only absurd and dishonest, but also a little scary. Sorry

 

Not when it comes to something as subjective as entertainment there isn't.