FF:NZ is it all over for Team New Zealand?

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by SimplyThrilledHoney, Feb 17, 2003.

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  1. SimplyThrilledHoney Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    err ... yeah.

    Reamed again ... 3-0.
  2. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    It ain't all over until Alinghi win 5 races.

    Simple as that.

    Bertran came back from 4-0 down to win the cup for Aussie 5-4.


    But yeah... it's not looking likely, is it? :(



    Ummm. Go the Black Caps! :D

  3. ACERIMMERROCKS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2001
    star 4
    i can tell u if the tratiors win they wont wanna set foot in the country again
  4. SimplyThrilledHoney Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    don't get me started ... why are Couts and Butterworth "traitors"? Look at Team New Zealand. Who designed their boat? An American. The Team New Zealand helmsman is French and the Team New Zealand tactician is Australian. hardy a "true blue" kiwi team is it?

    The so-called "traitors" were messed around by Team New Zealand, so they took their talent elsewhere. End of story.
  5. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    > The so-called "traitors" were messed around by Team New Zealand, so they took their talent elsewhere. End of story.

    Not quite.

    No-one cares that Farr designed non-NZ boats. No-one cares that Simon Daubney is on Alinghi. No-one cares Craig Monk and another dozen or so NZers switched campaigns and are sailing for other syndicates.

    But Coutts and Butterworth were the LEADERS of Team NZ. They had stepped up into Peter Blake's role for this campaign.

    If you want to defect, fine. But do it between campaigns, not during it.

    And Coutts in particular had been very, VERY nasty to others who had left Team NZ - calling them traitors & persona non grata etc. It's well documented. He even called NIWA traitors for letting non-NZ teams have access to the weather information that NIWA gathers as a business.

    It is the total hypocracy of what Coutts did considering what he had previously said that has pissed off most NZers, myself included.

  6. Kai_Halicon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    [manic_rant]

    Either way, I couldn't care less. Regardless of how it is percieved, the America's Cup is majorically run by fat-pocketed 'upper-class' white trash. Sorry if this irks anyone, but New Zealand as a country can really drive me mad sometimes.

    We pride ourselves on our humility and friendliness yet we're the first to try and copy other nations who've succumbed to financial disease and corruption. The America's Cup may give people something to follow, but it's all another syndication for the fat cats.

    I should know, I work for Telecom. I've had so much insider information on the dodgy dealings, name-calling and back-stabbing, it's not a joke. The sooner this stupid bloody race is over, the better. I actually like yachting, but when it becomes as obsessive as this, it's a waste of time and money that could be spent elsewhere.

    I can only wonder who'll be the scapegoat after today's performance...

    As for Coutts and Butterworth, each to their own. I don't particularly agree with them jumping ship mid-campaign but I'm well acquainted with the adage of "you've gotta do what is best for you."

    Remember, these are men with families. I don't doubt providing for them would of most certainly affected their decision to moved camps.

    my, what a loaded thread this is going to be.

    :D

    [/manic_rant]
  7. -Winter- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 2
    Oi. :(

    I didn't watch the race today. Can't believe they lost again :(
  8. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Remember, these are men with families. I don't doubt providing for them would of most certainly affected their decision to moved camps.

    LOL. I dare say their Team NZ salaries would have been more than enough to "provide for their families".

  9. Chansplace Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2001
    star 4
    My 2c:

    bugger, maybe tomorrow.

    g'night
  10. SithForceLord Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2001
    star 6
    I whole-heatedly agree with Kai.

    Team NZ screwed them over, they went in search for a job. They found it with the Swiss. Alinghi will win (more than likely) and we will regret loosing such key sailors.


    Come'on the black boat, we can still pull through, but it'll be tough. Having the first race given away was rough. [face_plain]

    GO THE BLACK CAPS THOUGH woohoo!!!
  11. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    > Team NZ screwed them over

    How exactly? Don't forget we've only heard one side of the story. A story released to the public as a publicity stunt on the eve of the finals.

  12. SimplyThrilledHoney Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 3
    I'm also with Kai here ... I find the amount of public hysteria surrounding this boat race rather amusing. I don't know if anyone read the special "letters of support" page in the Herald the other, but a lot of people were inspired to write very bad (but very earnest) poetry about Team New Zealand ...

    This is, basically, a rich mans' sport. It's well and good to talk about Kiwis "mucking around in boats", but look at the demographic of the New Zealanders on the Black Boat ... predominantly white upper-middle class guys.

    Personally I don't really care what happens ... either way a New Zealander is going to win. At least if we lose the cup the ridiculous Auckland real estate prices may go down a bit.
  13. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    > predominantly white upper-middle class guys.

    I don't really get this point. Does that infer the sport is racist or something? Or that black lower-class dominated sports (league) is somehow "more worthy"?

    As Martin Crowe recently wrote, Cricket in NZ is also a predominantly white middle class game. But I don't see it being dismissed because of any racial bias. Yes, Crowe also made some other silly remarks, but that's not the point.

    I do understand the points you're trying to make regarding the America's Cup, but turning it into a "I don't care because it's a rich man's sport, dominated by whites" is ridiculous, IMO.

    Seen Formula One lately? Cycling? Superbikes? Powerboat Racing? Rally Car?

    Anything that requires a state of the art vehicle to race in / on is going to cost money.

    And for whatever reason, a lot of those sports don't attract certain races of people.

    That's no valid reason to dismiss the sport.
  14. Kai_Halicon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    I don't really get this point. Does that infer the sport is racist or something? Or that black lower-class dominated sports (league) is somehow "more worthy"?

    >>> I wouldn't say racist - certain sports tend to just be more "ethnically-orientated" than others.

    As Martin Crowe recently wrote, Cricket in NZ is also a predominantly white middle class game. But I don't see it being dismissed because of any racial bias. Yes, Crowe also made some other silly remarks, but that's not the point.

    >>> It certainly seems that way, but look at teams like Sri Lanka and India - not exactly 'white' or financially profficient and by most standards, excellent cricket players. I disagree with what Crowe said (them Crowe's ain't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer - Russell fares worse I reckon.)but you're right, it's beside the point.

    I do understand the points you're trying to make regarding the America's Cup, but turning it into a "I don't care because it's a rich man's sport, dominated by whites" is ridiculous, IMO.

    >>> An opinion you're entitled to, and to a degree, one I could agree with in regards to the bigger picture.

    However, I mentioned I've heard some absolutely vile comments made about 'other races' by upper-level managers at Telecom and how 'them Maori boys wouldn't know a keel from a kumara' and going on about how they 'would be looking for goal posts in the middle of the harbour' if dumped on a boat. Being part Polynesian myself, it took a great deal of effort not to sever their heads.

    It just seems to me that is the hidden face of the America's Cup - sure, it was a joke, but at who's expense?

    Seen Formula One lately? Cycling? Superbikes? Powerboat Racing? Rally Car?

    Anything that requires a state of the art vehicle to race in / on is going to cost money.

    And for whatever reason, a lot of those sports don't attract certain races of people.


    >>> That's unfortunately true. The downfall of that, is that for one reason or another, society tends to paint a picture of certain people in certain roles. Most people would probably find something curious about an Asian playing rugby etc.

    That's no valid reason to dismiss the sport.

    >>> That all comes down to the eye of the beyholder I'd wager.
  15. -Winter- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    star 2
    Most people would probably find something curious about an Asian playing rugby etc.

    Yep. Though it's probably because generally speaking, Asians have slightly smaller builds. So it's not entirely what the society paints us to be.
  16. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    Japan has a big Rugby following though. A number of retiring All Blacks head over to Japan to play club rugby for big bucks.

    And I recall the Japanese Rugby team at the last world cup. They scored the try of the series as one of the backs put up a huge bomb, caught it mid-dive over the line and landed right between the uprights to score a try.

    They lost the match, of course. ;)


    Uhh. This is not a photo from that game...

    [image=http://www.jinjapan.org/kidsweb/news/97-7/rugby.gif]


    Now, what was this topic about again?
  17. Kai_Halicon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    ^^^ Looks above ^^^

    Well, perhaps I should of researched my example before I gave one.

    [face_blush]

    Yeah, so what was this thread about again?

    :confused: 8-}
  18. jp-30 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2000
    star 9
    I think it was about Martin Crowe's "punch-and-grow" hair translplant, if I recall correctly.

  19. ACERIMMERROCKS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2001
    star 4
    I dont care much about the race

    I car about all the people in auckland who will lose their jobs cause of some greedy tratiors
  20. SithForceLord Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2001
    star 6
    ACE, they are NOT ******* traitors!!!!!
  21. Norrad_Roff Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 4
    Agreed SFL.

    (OMG!! I've just agreed with SFL [face_shocked])

    The America's Cup racing teams are "businesses". Kiwis sailing for teams other than "Team New Zealand" are NOT traitors. What they ARE doing is working in a job and being paid by their employer.

    So stop whining people. :mad:

  22. Norrad_Roff Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 4
    SFL had a posted edited by a Mod. [face_laugh]

    [face_plain]
  23. Kai_Halicon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    I think it was about Martin Crowe's "punch-and-grow" hair translplant, if I recall correctly.

    [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    I think Norrad made an apt point, btw. Probably the simplified version of what I was trying to say earlier.
  24. Darth_Graal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2001
    star 4
    Crikey! what a can of worms we've opened here!

    Why don't we stop all this negativity and put all our energy into supporting team NZ, god knows the auckland economy will take a bit of a dive if we lose and as john banks says "whats good for auckland is good for New Zealand"

    On the plus side if we do lose maybe some of the smaller, more accesible classes of yachting will get some funding back allowing NZ'ers to compete in more international regattas (which we used to do really well in), if funding from Yachting NZ is channeled into them instead of into team NZ.

    Kai, as for peoples comments regarding polynesians and sailing its always good to point out that they managed to colonise the largest ocean on the planet so their sailing can't be too shoddy aye!
  25. Kai_Halicon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    Damn straight Graal.

    It's a well known fact that ancestral Polynesians/Maori were able to navigate without use of charts or equipment, relying only on constellations of stars and instinct to get them where they were going.

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