Is it just me, or is Jacen the biggest hypocrite in the GFFA?

Nope, doesn't sound like someone who presumes to know much of anything about the Force [with regard to Jacen's quote in Onslaught].

No problem about the support as I agree with what you're saying!

 

Lightsabers are not necessarily Jedi-only weapons.

"I saw your laser sword. Only Jedi carry them." -Anakin Skywalker

Leia has one.
Han used one.
Ben gave one to Luke before Luke even knew about the Force.
Aurra Sing has SIX.

So Anakin Skywalker was obvioulsy wrong. The lightsaber issue is of little significance.


Why are the NJO authors being so cruel to Jacen???

 

Jacen keeps having these revelations regarding his behavior in each book only to have them promptly forgotten at the beginning of the next book, so I have a lot of trouble taking the quotes you've refered to at face value, they need to be considered in light of his continuing regressions. (I also realise that this could be considered a failing on the part of the authors, but I'm just focusing on the content on the books rather than the development process.)

Jacen seems to exist in a vacum with regards to character development. The events going on around him do not affect him. Han and Anakin are affected by Chewbacca's death, Jaina joins Rogue Squadron and has been adversely affected by all the death and destruction she has seen. Leia wants to help save people from the Vong destruction, regardless of her current feelings about the NR itself. Only Luke's inaction (I'm deliberately avoiding the issue of Mara) until SBS leaves me puzzled, although perhaps not as much as his sudden conversion!


This is the passage in DTO I keep refering to - the italics are not my own. They are in the original:

page 87
================================
Having grown up with an awareness of the Force, he understood it is ways that Luke never could. He had insights he could share with his uncle or mother, but they would never come upon those insights by themselves. They see things in large chunks, and I see the details on those chunks
===============================


The way I interpret this statement, it does not merely mean Jacen believes he sees things in a different way, but that he has a deeper understanding of the Force, he sees matters in more detail.


I will also quote Luke talking to Jacen soon after the previous passage:

page 118
=============================
"As smart as you are, as much training as you have, as much of the galaxy as you've seen, you still are only sixteen years old. You only have sixteen years of experience."
==============================

I know Jacen, while unhappy with this information at the time, does realise it's truth after his capture by the Vong. But it appears to be forgotten after DT.


I have no problem with other Jedi having other view points than the Luke/Mara philosophy, in fact I welcome it since I disagree with some of Mara's HoT views on the Force. But the attitude in the books seems to be that if an individual is not alligned with this camp, they are automatically wrong or at least to be wary of. Look at the abrupt change in Jedi tactics in SBS. Using the Force to throw bombs at enemy ships? And yet despite all the talk about avoiding the Dark Side at all cost in the previous 8 books, Luke adopts this without hesitation, and more importantly without explanation. He is moving closer to adopting Kyp's proactive stance, but because now it is Luke, it is now perfectly acceptable, while Kyp is still the bad guy.


(I'm not a Kyp fan BTW, I'm merely trying to understand Luke's change in attitude. He fought the Empire without any personal motivation needed, but now it takes the birth of his child to get him into action).

 

?I know Jacen, while unhappy with this information at the time, does [realize] [its] truth after his capture by the Vong. But it appears to be forgotten after DT.?

No, he accepted this as truth before he was captured. The quote that I brought up came before he set off to free the slaves. This would mean that he understood what Luke was talking about before he had it beaten into his head by a Vong.

Also, Jacen did not forget Luke?s words during DT. In fact, ?You only have sixteen years of experience? could explain why he thought that he had a better understanding of the situation at Centerpoint than Anakin did. He does have one and a half years more life experience than his little brother has.

?He is moving closer to adopting Kyp's stance of taking a more proactive stance, but because now it is Luke, it is now perfectly acceptable, while Kyp is still the bad guy.?

Luke?s actions are acceptable because they are more effective than Kyp?s where. With Kyp?s little squadron, he would go out and attack the Vong in general, without having a specific mission. Now that Luke has managed to put a leash on Kyp, the Jedi are actually getting some real stuff done. Every Jedi has specific goals, and we no longer have the vigilantism that Kyp promoted.

Luke was acting before; he was just using different tactics than Kyp was. Tactics that where more effective at saving lives then they where at defeating the enemy. Quite frankly, life is more important than war.

 

Jacen? Well, he's not all bad... but he could be better, says I!

 

Once again, I believe you are askewing the facts when it comes to Jacen, Darth Cerberus. I understand you are troubled by the GFFA's dire circumstances, seemingly caused by Jacen's utter inaction. I will however say that Star Wars is about emotions, Jedi principles facing changing times and redemption as much as it is about pure action. Having said that, let's move on to what you are contesting...

Jacen keeps having these revelations regarding his behavior in each book only to have them promptly forgotten at the beginning of the next book.

Not true. In Dark Tide: Ruin, Jacen learned not to overburden himself with the "bigger picture", sort of speak. Jaina and Luke taught him to focus on the mission at hand and at the here & now rather than trying to come up with a magical, overreaching solution to the YV threat. In Jedi Eclipse, he recounts that Ithor (and the confessions to the Ithorian priest) taught him to quit trying to solve all the galaxy's problems in one sweep of the arm. In Balance Point, he obviously learned that the "darkness must be fought", and later in SbS, Jacen is the first to shout out that they cannot just let the Taflogian refugees die. Also in SbS, he specifically said to Anakin that Centerpoint taught him that he cannot thrust his strong beliefs on other people. He must let others choose and follow their own paths. Clearly, Jacen's character has been evolving and logically building on characterizations from previous books.

Jacen seems to exist in a vacum with regards to character development.

Obviously not. Jacen's character evolves consistently and constantly from book to book. If Jacen's character fails to develop due to what you perceive as proper action, than that is another matter altogether. Mentally and physically, Jacen Solo's character has advanced over the course of the first two years of the YV invasion.

You take the quote which you refer to on page 87 of Onslaught completely out of context. I will repaste the passage here for convenience:

Having grown up with an awareness of the Force, he understood it is ways that Luke never could. He had insights he could share with his uncle or mother, but they would never come upon those insights by themselves. They see things in large chunks, and I see the details on those chunks

First, this passage far from proves that Jacen believes he has a better understanding of the Force than his Uncle Luke. You may interpret it one way, but the fact of the matter is, Jacen's own thoughts prove - not insinuate - he envies his Uncle Luke's connection to the Force. Secondly, this passage you refer to is part of a broader introspection in which Jacen reflects on the crises that his family has to deal with (pp. 85-87) - especially his Uncle Luke. Luke has been so consumed on acting and responding to crises, he has had little time to devote to himself (p.86) and possibly furthering Jedi foundations in the Force. Jacen's whole life has been brought up on a notion of good & evil. The fact the YV do not exist on any plane through the Force shakes Jacen's school of thought and prompts him to un-learn what he has learned, sort of speak. If trying to relearn the Force and all of its implications deeper could mean thwarting the YV threat, which is what it means to Jacen, is it not worth a try? Sure it is.

Clearly, Obi-wan and Yoda trained Luke as a weapon against his father. Is Luke overweening and overbearingly arrogant if he believed circumstances back then required an entirely different approach? Certainly not. Does it also mean he has a better understanding of the Force than Yoda and Obi-Wan. Also not. Different circumstances required Luke to evolve his philosophy and his approach. Likewise, because the YV are devoid in the Force, Jacen believes he must reconsider a Jedi's approach. Arrogant? Certainly not.

As to your comments about Luke's sudden change

 

STOP DOING THAT!!!

I'm going to have to change opinions if you Jacen-lovers keep bringing up good points!

Um, I'm bigoted against Jacen, and it's because... um... ummm....