PT Is it just me that strongly dislikes Mace Windu and thinks he is overrated as a Jedi?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by CommanderTano96, Jun 12, 2013.

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  1. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
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    Why? Why does Mace have to represent what led the Jedi astray? Why not simply realize that all of the major Jedi characters - Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Ki Adi Mundi and Anakin, along with former Jedi Count Dooku and Sifo-Dyas - help bring down the Order with their actions and decisions? Why choose one particular character to"represent" what was bad about the Jedi Order?
    Last edited by DRush76, Jul 20, 2013
  2. Loupgarou Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    Because star wars is a story of archetypes and symbolism. I understand that all Jedi characters are at fault for the fall of the order, hence why i said 'represents' not 'causes'.
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  3. DRush76 Force Ghost

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    Jan 25, 2008
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    Granted. But why Mace? Why not Yoda? He was considered the wisest Jedi, yet like his fellow Jedi, he made some serious mistakes.
    Last edited by DRush76, Jul 20, 2013
  4. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

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    Jan 5, 2011
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    Well, if we're talking about symbolism, Yoda doesn't fall with the Jedi Order, he survives them. That has meaning if you want it to.
  5. LunarMoth Force Ghost

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    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    Never thought much of Mace. I love Sam Jackson, but Windu never really stood out for me. I think it may be one of those things where we, the audience, associate too much with the actor instead of the character. Had Mace been played by more of an unknown, perhaps he would have worked better for those of us who didn't get it.
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  6. DRush76 Force Ghost

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    Sorry, but I don't really buy that. Yoda is always a part of the Jedi Order, whether he survived it or not.



    Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson and Natalie Portman were already well known when the first PT movie was released. Which is why I find this explanation about Sam Jackson's portrayal of Mace Windu very difficult to accept.
  7. MOC Yak Face Classic Trilogy and Saga Co-Mod.

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    I think with Mace we had a polarising actor playing a polarising character. Many people seem to feel quite strongly about SLJ, Mace or no Mace, and Mace himself seems to get a strong reaction either way as he's a bit of a misfit in terms of what we've traditionally understood the Jedi to be. Some people love that about him, others not.
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  8. Stormtrooper Dave Jedi Knight

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    Jul 23, 2013
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    I was never a big fan with Sam Jackson being cast as a Jedi....you get this perception of him from other films like Pulp Fiction, Jackie Brown, and The Negotiator, to name a few. He's hardcore, so it's hard to shake that in a series of films where he's supposed to be relatively calm and wise. Plus, he begged George Lucas for the role, despite being in his early 50's by the time Episode I was released. Furthermore, with Jackson being a superstar, it cast a shadow over the relative unknowns cast in larger roles, especially Hayden Christensen as Anakin Skywalker. Lucas was better off casting an unknown for the part of Mace Windu instead of giving in to Jackson's request.

    I've read that Dwayne Johnson wants a part in Episode VII. At least he has the physique to play a character with considerable size and strength, if there is a role requiring it. If I were JJ Abrams, I'd put him in a suit or makeup that makes him unrecognisible.
  9. MOC Yak Face Classic Trilogy and Saga Co-Mod.

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    Hayden and Jake were really the only relative unknowns in a major role, so I don't think prior fame in and of itself is much of a factor for the way Mace was interpreted. Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor were both major stars when TPM was released, but I don't see them as polarising in the same way as SLJ is. Many people really can't stand SLJ as an actor, notwithstanding Mace. I don't think that many people out there despise Ewan or Natalie in the same way. I may be wrong... On top of that, Mace is to some extent written for SLJ, which some fans objected to. He's supposed to be contemplative and thoughtful and vaguely pacifist as a Jedi, but he's actually badass and confrontational and vaguely trash talking.
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  10. FortunateFool Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Overrated actor for the overrated role of an overrated Jedi.
  11. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I wonder how many people blame Mace for making Yoda go into exile? I mean, since it was all his fault and stuff.:rolleyes:
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  12. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    Comments like the above tend to piss me off. And I cannot help but wonder if the comment was posted to piss off someone.


    By the way, Yoda and Mace are responsible for their own mistakes. And the circumstances behind Yoda's exile began a long time ago . . . long before the events of ROTS.




    That's not Samuel Jackson or George Lucas' fault. It's yours. Apparently, you cannot see Jackson beyond roles such as the ones he did in movies for Tarantino. And his role as "superstar" did not cast a shadow over the others, considering that Liam Neeson was just as big at the time. And still is.


    And I might as well say it. I suspect that bigotry has played a major role in the antipathy toward Mace Windu and Jackson's portrayal. Many fans refuse to see him in types of roles other than the ones he had done for Tarantino. And Mace is a character who is not only portrayed by an African-American actor, but is also not a "Magical Negro" or loyal minion type. I suspect I will get in trouble for my comments, but I can no longer hold back my suspicions.
    Last edited by DRush76, Jul 25, 2013
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  13. FortunateFool Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2013
    @DRush76, always have to play the race card, eh?

    @Stormtrooper Dave sees him as the same character, because SLJ plays the same friggin' character in every movie. Just like Will Smith plays Will Smith in most of his movies.
  14. Loupgarou Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2010
    star 3
    DRush, Perhaps your suspicions would make sense if people weren't giving a variety of reasons why they don't like the character. It seems like the consensus reason is that Samuel L Jackson has cultivated a certain image, from playing the same sorts of roles many times. As a Jedi he still plays an assertive, aggressive no-nonsense character, when that doesn't really feel much like a Jedi to most people. Now it DOES make sense with the headcanon of sorts i described, of him representing the attitudes that led to the fall of the Jedi, of him playing with fire. But since the movies themselves never make it quite clear that the Jedi Council is intentionally portrayed as backwards, i completely get people not liking the character.

    Sometimes people don't like characters you like. People have written numerous articles on why you shouldn't like Boba Fett, and yet i still love him. It's ok to ask 'why don't you like this character?' but it's not really ok to say 'no your reasons are wrong, you must be a racist'.
  15. MOC Yak Face Classic Trilogy and Saga Co-Mod.

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    I think SLJ as Mace was a casting master stroke. Mace could easily have been a wishy washy secondary character not much more memorable than Ki Adi Mundi. He could've been just another guy who got killed by Palpatine on his way to turning Anakin. As it is, here we are still talking vigorously about him 8 years after he went flying out that window. Like him or not, it's hard to say SLJ / Mace didn't have an impact in SW.
  16. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    My son is half black, so forgive me for having a low tolerance for racial garbage that creeps into just about every Mace Windu discussion. I know some fans are racists because millions of people are racist, but that doesn't mean ALL fans who dislike Mace are racists... and as much as I'd love go on a rant of my own, THIS is not the time or place for THAT discussion. So it ends now.

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    @DRush76 if five years of posting in PT and that eyeroll wasn't good enough, Yoda has always been more of the fallguy in my eyes, not Mace. The little green dude lived almost a thousand years so it was his arrogance that was passed around from Master to apprentice and younglings until it permeated the Order. He was too sure of himself, just like he said about Anakin and other, more experienced Jedi. I like to think he became so good at giving advice that couldn't see his own flaws. Mace was doomed before he was born, so Yoda's exile could never be pinned on him.
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  17. Alexrd Force Ghost

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    Jul 7, 2009
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    ... what?!
  18. Darkslayer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2013
    star 4
    You and that sick avatar just won this thread with that post.
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  19. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
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