Is it Lucas's fault if audiences can't see past the special effects?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by DarthHomer, Apr 1, 2002.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    That might explain it, but I don't think that covers everyone who was let down does it?
  2. DarthTorgo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2002
    star 4
    Hence the other "stupid crap."
  3. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Go-Mer, how do you know we don't like the parts of TPM we like as much as you like the whole? :confused:

    BTW, you want an example of needless effects?

    Example: The ground battle from the point the TF army was lured away from Theed and started to battle the Gungans. Everything beyond that was superfluous and a REAL diversion.
  4. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Raincitygirl, how, exactly, do you think the FX overshadowed the story? I keep hearing this accusation but I don't know what it really means. If someone is more focused on the effects, IMO it is their doing, not the movie's.

    Frankly, I think the effects in "The Matrix" were much more show-offy and therefore overshadowed the story far more than TPM's effects.

    Incidentally...one of the complaints about the OT back when it was released was that it was just a showcase for then-cutting-edge special effects. Other complaints: it was all effects, no story, shallow characters, horrible dialogue. This has a familiar ring to it...
  5. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --xample: The ground battle from the point the TF army was lured away from Theed and started to battle the Gungans. Everything beyond that was superfluous and a REAL diversion.--
    Eh? I'm sorry, I don't see how anything was superfluous and a diversion.
  6. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    No it wasn't ShaneP. It showed the key points in the ground battle, nothing more.

    First the standoff with the tanks not being able to penetrate the sheild, then the Niemodians launching the droid army, then the droid army overwhelming them to the point where they take out their sheild, and then the retreat, and eventual capture. All of that was needed exposition.

    I don't know how much you liked the parts you liked, but there weren't any parts I didn't like. If you prefer being let down by some parts, then who knows, maybe you are happier than I am.
  7. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    It showed the key points in the ground battle, nothing more.


    jar jar getting the jewels smacked on the barrel of a tank's cannon was a really key point, wasn't it? :p

  8. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I thought it was important.

    Seriously though, you have to look past Jar-Jar to the bigger picture which was the Gungan's desparate attempt to retreat and their eventual capture.
  9. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    go-mer-tonic said:

    Honestly, I don't understand how people could get so side tracked that they miss the point of the film.

    The effects WERE the point of the film (other than making a crapload of moolah). The actual story managed to be both childish AND convoluted (more like a rejected Star Trek pilot)and was easily forgotten by all but the most rabid fan-boys.

    As far as CGI and other fx, ill just give these examples:
    1. Jurassic park, though far from a masterpiece, was MUCH better than The Lost World. And TLW was better than JP3.
    2. Jaws was MUCH MUCH better than any of its sequels as well as ANY other killer shark movies (such as Deep Blue Sea)ever made. And much scarier...

    When you figure out why the above is true, youll begin to understand WHY TPM is such a lousy movie...or if you prefer why its such a MIDDLING KIDS MOVIE.
  10. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    Seriously though, you have to look past Jar-Jar to the bigger picture which was the Gungan's desparate attempt to retreat and their eventual capture.

    But the problem is, the camera didn't focus on that, it focused on jar jar smacking the jewels on the tank's cannon. How can you look past it when it's the focus of the shot?
  11. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    None of your post was "true," dahveed, it was just your opinion. I get tired of TPM-haters a) acting like they speak for everybody; and b) acting like their opinion is fact.
  12. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    I get tired of TPM-haters a) acting like they speak for everybody; and b) acting like their opinion is fact.

    Umm, gushers do it to. We are all guilty of doing it now and then. ;)
  13. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    "jar jar getting the jewels smacked on the barrel of a tank's cannon was a really key point, wasn't it?"

    [face_laugh] ROTFLMAO!!!!
  14. PruneF8ce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2002
    star 4
    True stone_Jedi.

    The effects WERE the point of the film (other than making a crapload of moolah). The actual story managed to be both childish AND convoluted (more like a rejected Star Trek pilot)and was easily forgotten by all but the most rabid fan-boys.

    Nope. Only forgotten in your mind. Im sure the original SW was rapidly forgotten by all but the most rabid fan boys as well. Many people have the impression that SW back in the '70s and '80's is for nerds. Why is that? Because only the rapid fanboys as you call em really are into it. These rapid fan boys can also be known by their real name, SW fans. Im afraid you are one too.
  15. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Go-Mer (before): "Honestly, I don't understand how people could get so side tracked that they miss the point of the film.

    dahveed72: "The effects WERE the point of the film (other than making a crapload of moolah)."

    Go-Mer: Well, those were the only two points you detected.

    dahveed72: "The actual story managed to be both childish AND convoluted (more like a rejected Star Trek pilot)and was easily forgotten by all but the most rabid fan-boys."

    Go-Mer: It may have appeared childish and convoluted to you, but it was pretty mature and made a lot of sense to us "die hard" fans.

    dahveed72: "As far as CGI and other fx, ill just give these examples:
    1. Jurassic park, though far from a masterpiece, was MUCH better than The Lost World. And TLW was better than JP3."


    Go-Mer: I thought that effects wise, it went: JPIII, JPI then JPII.

    dahveed72: "2. Jaws was MUCH MUCH better than any of its sequels as well as ANY other killer shark movies (such as Deep Blue Sea)ever made. And much scarier..."

    Go-Mer: While the 3D effect helped the third Jaws film, I pretty much agree with you here.

    dahveed72: "When you figure out why the above is true, you'll begin to understand WHY TPM is such a lousy movie...or if you prefer why its such a MIDDLING KIDS MOVIE."

    Go-Mer: So you beleive that effects in sequels can only get worse? When you see Episode II, you will begin to understand why TPM was such a great movie.
  16. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    go-mer said:

    Especially when compared to the Matrix, which if I didn't know any better was written around the "Bullit Time" effect.


    Oh brother... The reason WHY The Matrix completely overshadowed TPM, particularly in the FX department, was because THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE!! The Academy is made up of GROWNUPS who have seen alot of (mainly American) movies. There's no way they were gonna give an Oscar OF ANY KIND to a lousy kids movie that JUST HAPPENS TO HAVE EYE-CATCHING EFFECTS!! If the movie itself hadnt been so utterly disposable, if it had been merely so-so, it almost certainly would have taken home the Award for visual effects.
  17. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    "When you see Episode II, you will begin to understand why TPM was such a great movie."

    Go-Mer, why do I have to watch another movie to realize how great TPM was? Why can't I find that out by watching TPM? :confused:
  18. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    --Oh brother... The reason WHY The Matrix completely overshadowed TPM, particularly in the FX department, was because THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE!!--
    No it isn't.

    --The Academy is made up of GROWNUPS--
    Technically.

    --who have seen alot of (mainly American) movies. There's no way they were gonna give an Oscar OF ANY KIND to a lousy kids movie that JUST HAPPENS TO HAVE EYE-CATCHING EFFECTS!!--
    But they have no trouble handing it to a vastly overrated, pretentious, so-so sci-fi movie because it happens to have eye-catching effects and because it is influenced by the SW-bashing press, and because it had longed to slight a SW movie and could now do so without fear of backlash.

    --If the movie itself hadnt been so utterly disposable,--
    It sure isn't disposable to you, is it, dahveed? You're still here complaining about it three years later. If it was as disposable as you claim, shouldn't you have moved on by now and found a "Matrix" board to worship at?

    --if it had been merely so-so, it almost certainly would have taken home the Award for visual effects.--
    Well, it was a great deal better than so-so, and it didn't take home the award for visual effects. Go figure.
  19. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    I get tired of TPM-haters a) acting like they speak for everybody; and b) acting like their opinion is fact.

    Umm, gushers do it to. We are all guilty of doing it now and then.



    See Shelley, you just did it with your last post. ;)
  20. Oakessteve Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 9, 1999
    star 6
    ShaneP raises an interesting point, but even though I've criticised The Phantom Menace in the past, and there are still a number of things about it I don't like, it has raised my appreication of Return of the Jedi, as before I thought it was a bit of an anticlimax to all the stuff set up in Empire Strikes Back, but now all the stuff with Yoda, Obi-Wan, Luke, the Emperor and Darth Vader has far more meaning and is, in my opinion, a hundred times more effective and emotional, too. So far, each Star Wars film builds on the one that proceeded it, and I'm sure the same thing will happen with The Phantom Menace. I just hope Attack of the Clones will be a good film in it's own right, and won't need Episode III to make it 'great'.

    Anyhow,dahveed72, could you please state your opinions in a slightly more reasonable way, perhaps? This is the sort of thing that really irritated me about some posters on here, but for the most part, they've dropped that now, which is good, as it's something I'm very intolerant too. If it happens again, you might get banned, which will be a bummer as you've only just got here.
  21. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    Ill simplify it for ya gomer: Improved technology does not NECESARILY mean better, more effective, or "realer" effects. And it DEFINITELY doesnt mean a better movie.

    For the record, i think that most of the backlash against the CGI (over)used in TPM was a result of the hideously rude awakening millions of us had when we first saw and heard those Power Ranger reject Guild guys for the first time and THEN IT JUST KEPT GOING ON LIKE THAT FOR 2 HOURS!! If the story, dialogue, pacing, and acting had been merely above average, very few people would be complaining about the CGI. I thought most of the effects were both impressive AND cartoonish and i suspect they will improve markedly in the next 2 movies.
    I LOVED Watto though. By far the best ACTING performance of the movie and the most convincing CGI character IMO.
  22. Basil_Hennington Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2002
    star 4
    actually, prunef8ce, the OT was very well remembered when it came out.

    Didn't you see all the stuff they sold and the fact that it had sequels in the first place?

    [face_plain]
  23. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    ShaneP: "Go-Mer, why do I have to watch another movie to realize how great TPM was? Why can't I find that out by watching TPM?"

    Go-Mer: You don't have to, but apparently you can't think of any good reason for why TPM was the way it was, and Episode II will show you why. You can find out by just watching TPM if you want to.

    But that's just it, you have to want to.
  24. dahveed72 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 3
    quote:
    But they have no trouble handing it to a vastly overrated, pretentious, so-so sci-fi movie because it happens to have eye-catching effects and because it is influenced by the SW-bashing press, and because it had longed to slight a SW movie and could now do so without fear of backlash.

    As i said, if TPM had been merely ok from an adult standpoint, it probably would have beaten out an admitedly flawed Matrix. Its unfair to compare these 2 very different movies, but for me and millions of other inteligent movie fans the difference between the 2 was one was very watchable and the other was merely bearable (thanks to that SW label).
  25. stone_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2001
    star 4
    But that's just it, you have to want to.

    Why can't I just watch it and it happens? You know, just the knee-jerk reaction from seeing a good movie? Why do I have to will myself to like it? ?[face_plain]

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