Discussion Is it more about the money than the story now?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by budspencer, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Abrams needs to prove to us it's not about the money.

    The only way to do this is do what Lucas did: work to the brink of death on set of the first movie.

    Since Death Valley has been done, I suggest the Moon.

    I mean yeah he could choose Antarctica but do we seriously want another generation of Battle of Hoth games?
  2. GGrievous Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2005
    star 5
    It's honestly about the money imho. After Disney bought SW, instant "NEW TRILOGY OUT BY 2015!!"

    Yeah...I'm sure they care about the story aspect of it. :p
    Last edited by GGrievous, Mar 8, 2013
  3. The Hellhammer Grand Judicator of the New Film Territories

    Moderator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    Of course they care about the story aspect.

    Their interest is to earn money, yes, but they won't earn money if they keep throwing out ***** products.
    So, to get more money - their products have to be good.
    Last edited by Jedi Merkurian, Mar 12, 2013
  4. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    There is a prevailing idea by many people for some reason that something making lots of money means it is good.

    There are many examples of stuff making money based largely on a name instead of quality, if you can make lots of money without putting in loads of time and effort and expense wouldn't you do that?
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Mar 8, 2013
  5. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    When it comes to film it's always about money. You don't honestly believe George made the PT just tell great stores(debateable) do you? It was just about money as anything else is. It was about money when he saw that little tebby bears would make more kids watch ROTJ, and therefore sell his product like crazy. IF George had and outline planned out and was already in discussion with the big 3 before the sell to Disney, then it was about money then to.

    Speilberg wasn't allowed to make Schindlers List until he made Jurassic Park. A man who had made money maker after money maker still had to make a another money maker before he could make the movie he wanted to make.

    This doesn't mean you can't want money and make an artistic product. This doesn't mean you can't want money and tell a great story. You just have to look it from the Production companys point of view. If they sell movies that don't make money, then they won't be a production company anymore.

    So of course making an Episode 7 is about money. However in order to make money you have to have a product everybody wants. So if you make a crap product that nobody will watch, then your gonna lose money. Disney has shown that they want a product that will sell. They want a quality product that will make money. Which is why JJ and Michael Arnt are on board to achieve that goal.

    The answer to your question is YES to both.
    Last edited by DarthMane2, Mar 8, 2013
  6. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Kathleen Kennedy: All that matters is our money. No one cared who I was till I bought SW from George.

    J.J. Abrams: And what if I bought SW from you?

    KK: It would be extremely painful...

    J.J.: You're a successful executive producer.

    KK: ...for you.
    BigAl6ft6 and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  7. Han Burgundy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3

    I see your point, and on some level I agree, but here's where your logic breaks down: From the financial perspective of a studio executive, a big, dumb blockbuster that makes oodles of money and a big, good blockbuster that makes oodles of money are one and the same.

    While making a dumb movie like Transformers doesn't take any more work than a good movie like Avengers, it doesn't neccisarily take any less work either. The production and effects work that went into both of those films was astounding, even if the artistic presentation was clearly better in one film than the other.

    So there's really nothing that proves studio executives inherently prefer to tell big, dumb stories over big, intelligent ones, except for the choices they make in production. Fortunately, that's where evidence is on our side. So far, Disney has agreed to keep LFL intact, similar to their handling of Marvel, in order to keep the artistic integrity of the working environment, while also letting Lucas stay around as a consultant. Also, they've hired an Oscar-winning screenwriter, and a director known for a very starwars-esque film that most people really enjoyed. Finally, read the quote I posted from Iger above. This film is being overseen by a Diney CEO who believes in the power of good characters and stories, who believes that's what makes movies sell in the long run. He may be wrong (though the success of the character-driven Avengers might prove otherwise), but its nonetheless comforting to know that he cares.
    Pro Scoundrel likes this.
  8. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    I'm sure Disney will do things right, although they did do John Carter which bombed badly.
  9. DarthMane2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 4
    John Carter had one of the worst marketing strategies of all time. That's why it failed.

    Star Wars is something Disney doesn't have to work as hard to sell, because most people know about it as opposed to "The Princess of Mars"
  10. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    John Carter was really good. Disney was just incredibly lazy on marketing it.
  11. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Will we be able to see the Lens flares from up there :confused:
  12. Tan-Wessel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2001
    star 3
    It was always about money from the second George enrolled in his first class at USC. Filmmaking is inherently a commercial art.

    As for big money vs. quality art...it is simply the project management triangle:
    [IMG]

    The same applies across every creative field/industry with the following variation of the image I like to show all my clients:
    [IMG]

    Pick two, but then the third will be whatever it has to be based on the other two choices. You can have good and fast if you’re willing to spend a lot of money. You can have fast and cheap, but the quality will be poor. You might even be able to get good and cheap, if you’re willing to wait a long time.
    Last edited by Tan-Wessel, Mar 9, 2013
  13. aepawlik87 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Considering Lucas wrote the plots when we was young, that will be truly sincere.

    Now, for Disney's part...
  14. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    This post is poorly conceived and executed.

    George Lucas is the one who wrote the treatments and basically story for the ST. He's the one who hired Arndt apparently and started negotiating the Big 3 BEFORE he called Bob Iger to discuss selling to Disney. So this is George's concept that continues HIS saga, which was always, at various times, going to be either 9 or as many as 12 episodes (and still could.)

    For further reading see the links in the George Lucas pinned thread at the top.

    Your futile attempt to cast a "negative light" on the ST has been a FAIL.
    Jedi Merkurian and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  15. Kal La Kai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Abrams actually stated post Star Trek that he feels he went way over the top with the lens flare effects and is going to tone it down on the second film.

    Hopefully he'll hold to his word with EpVII because I think I'd go nuts with lens flare in every lightsaber scene!
  16. budspencer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2010
    star 1
    And your own retort is as big as a fail as my own opinion apparently. For one thing i would hate to see the Sequels to fail. If the big 3 are in i will be one happy man. I am old enough to have grown with the original movies and the prequels to know what i am talking about. I am surely not a naive young pup as you would led people to believe about me.

    And let us not delude ourselves here. Disney did not buy this concept to put it on the shelf and make it look pretty. They plan on milking it in every which way they can and they already have announced that they will milk the product. My fear is that while the first movie may succeed in satisfying the appetite of fans with their Star Wars craving, down the road people will start cutting corners and quality will suffer. Anyone remember the original Christopher Reeves Superman movie and how it got worse and worse. It can and could happen to the franchise. Some companies are something willing to take chances and cut corners and deliver a sub par product to make some money anyways.
  17. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I was happy with just that being done with I-VI.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 10, 2013
  18. KED12345 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2012
    star 4
    This statement should be repeated again and again whenever the subject of "Disney milking SW" comes up.
  19. run_luke_run Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2004
    star 4
    So...all of you complaining won't shell out a dime to see the new films, right?
    Last edited by run_luke_run, Mar 10, 2013
  20. darklordoftech Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    I'm not complaining. Making movies for the money is a perfectly legitimate business.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 10, 2013
  21. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Yes, money is involved, and is a necessary driving force as it is in any movie or project of any kind that people pay for. But not only is hammering the whole "it is just about money" thing too cynical and crusty for a new SW movie, money really IS'NT the point in a lot of ways.

    First off, Disney isn't making the movie, Kathleen, JJ, Arndt, and co. are making it. That has been repeated 10,000 times, some still do not seem to get that. George did not just drop the franchise off haphazardly; he made sure it was with a co. that would serve the franchise well and give his people creative freedom (Marvel Comics anyone?). Therefore, it is distorting the case to continually keep saying "Disney did this and Disney did that" every time a decision is made about the movie. George already wanted the big 3 back long before all of this, so quit saying it was "Disney doing it to make money."

    I am sure the big 3 aren't crying about the paychecks they will be getting, but this is their legacy, come on! This is a huge whirlwind for them to get another shot at a SW movie. One interviewer asked Hamill (paraphrasing) something like "Isn't it a bummer to always be remembered as Luke?" Hamill responded something like "you act like that is a bad thing, it is great just to be remembered." He always wanted to play Luke again, to actually BE the Jedi he became in the last movie in a new movie.

    Harrison doesn't need the money, so that is not even a half-decent point concerning him.

    How many people involved have loved SW all of their lives? People like JJ, and I am sure a huge portion of those who will be involved in Episode 7 in any kind of creative capacity, absolutely will be thrilled just on the merits/status/legacy of being involved in a SW movie, wouldn't you?
  22. Echo-07 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 4
    As I suggested the ST was already planned out by the creator. Disney didn't buy SW just to produce under the SW brand without a plan. George Lucas himself also stated that he provided ideas (treatments probably) for the spinoff movies as well. What Disney is doing now is what George himself didn't have the time/energy & will to do. Disney has the deep pockets to make SW at a very high quality.YES, this is an investment on their part but I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to make SW and money too! It's called CAPITALISM.

    I think people crying, whining, complaining and expressing fear BEFORE we've even had one new movie are just silly. Chicken Little. Let's focus on Episode VII and jump off those other bridges when we get to them.George Lucas is a very smart individual. One of the key factors in this sale is that SW would be preserved and NOT destroyed and that includes quality. Disney is also a smart organization. In order to make money the product needs to be high quality. While John Carter looked like a high quality product it was mishandled in many ways. With KK watching out for SW she will kick-start the new era brilliantly and protect it.

    Lastly, SW won't suffer the same fate as Superman as long as they stay away from comedians and allowing the cast to write the scripts. (IE 3 & 4)
    Darth Chiznuk and run_luke_run like this.
  23. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Obi-Wan: There's more money than movie here.
  24. The Bops Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2012
    star 1
    I love how a company getting "too big" and making "too much" money is seen as negative. Can I remind you that LucasFilm (and Disney for that matter) got big and made money because we, collectively, love their product? Are we so arrogant that we think we know better than Lucas and the people he had picked to carry on his creation?
    Echo-07 likes this.
  25. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 4
    Don't be so quick to apply the term "love" to Star Wars "fans". Sometimes it seems like their true love isn't the movies so much as it is sniping at them.
    Last edited by Vthuil, Mar 11, 2013
    lbr789, Echo-07 and Darth Xalfrea like this.