Is it really Lucas' fault?

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by ST-TPM-ASF-TNE, Jul 11, 2002.

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  1. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    No, that is not exactly what he says. Let me quote him for you:

    - I took it upon myself to train him. I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong...
    (The first sentence may not be entirely correct.)

    He does say that he took the training upon himself and he does say that he thought he could instruct him just as well as Yoda, but he does NOT say that he took it upon himself BECAUSE of the latter! That is just something you assumed from hearing this.

    EDIT: It doesn´t matter if most of their relationship occurs offscreen, we can still see that there is friendship.
  2. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "EDIT: It doesn´t matter if most of their relationship occurs offscreen, we can still see that there is friendship."

    Oh, it most certainly does matter.

    Tell me, which hits harder: The death of Obi-Wan, or the death of a random stormtrooper?

    When a film takes the time to allow us to get to know a character, we grow to feel much more attached--and likewise with a friendship. Thus, it's much more effective to show a friendship develop and strengthen over time than it is to pay lip service to it, then leave it largely ignored.
  3. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I think there´s enough friendship onscreen to make their EpIII-duel VERY dramatic. And Obi´s death will be dramatic too, not because of their former friendship, but because of his unexpected sacrifice.
  4. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    Heh. To quote Quixotic-Sith:

    Obi-Wan: "Remember that funny thing we did once? The one where we bonded and supposedly built a magnificent camaraderie that I will wistfully remember two episodes from now?"

    [Anakin]: "Oh yes. That was a wonderful event that will never be seen on camera, despite being indicative of a relationship that is never given more than lip-service in the film. Oh, the fun we had. By the way, I'm going to bitch to and about you for the rest of the film. Buddy."

    Obi-Wan: "Hah hah. Yes, the fun we had. That is why you are so dear to me, [Anakin]. Your incessant whining, your recklessness, your ambivalence to those around you, your condescension towards me, your nihilistic attitude towards life and death, your... your... You know what? You suck as a friend and apprentice!"

    :p
  5. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
  6. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    Obi-Wan and Anakin have a love/hate/love/hate/love/HATE-HATE-HATE! relationship. What's the problem? :)
  7. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    The correct line from ROTJ is:

    "When I first met Anakin, I was waiting inside a silver SR-71 playing JawaTetris against Ric Olie, a pilot who states the obvious. Several years later I fell into a nest of gundarks, but your father rescued me from that nightmare. Eventually he fell into lava and became Darth Vader. From that moment, the whiny, arrogant teenager who was your father ceased to exist. He's more machine now, than man... cooler and more interesting."
  8. TokyoXtreme Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    And OF COURSE it's Lucas's fault. It's his "baby", after all. Time to change the diaper George.
  9. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    "From that moment, the whiny, arrogant teenager who was your father ceased to exist. He's more machine now, than man... cooler and more interesting."

    That much is true :)
  10. TrueJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 5
    Yes, it's like a diaper that has expanded to its' maximum capacity and is leaking out in all directions. Pretty soon that has to be changed or people are going to be knee deep in the stuff. Sadly, it seems that the diaper has already exploded. Check this out: The diaper has exploded
  11. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Thanks for the mental image.

    ST
  12. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Have you ever noticed that every time you point your finger at someone else, you are also pointing 3 fingers back at yourself?
  13. TheAnointedOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 2
    Gomer, how can we be pointing the finger at ourselves? No one here wrote, directed, and produced the prequels...
  14. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I meant that literally. Point your finger at the monitor, and look at your hand.
  15. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I don't think it's Lucas' fault that people he's never met before don't appreciate his work.
  16. TheAnointedOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 2
    If an artist creates something that isn't well received, then it's his fault.
  17. BabaORileyFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    star 4
    I think the question that should be asked is, "Should Lucas care if every single SW fan didn't appreciate and/or enjoy TPM?" I say no.

    If Lucas didn't like the way TPM turned out, he wouldn't have released it. If he was satisfied with the outcome, that's all that matters in the end. Art may be subjective, but it's also about freedom.
  18. TheAnointedOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 2
    It's also about what others think about the art itself. Everyone who creates something doesn't want to just please himself, but wants to please those who see the finished product. Lucas cares about what fans think because he has made adjustments on Star Wars all along the way based on what he thought fans would appreciate.
  19. Rabid_Balding_Ewok Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2000
    star 4
    Well actualy Go-Mer, my three fingers are angled on a 90 degree angle away from me. But if I was missing my knuckle bones I could see how my three fingers might be pointing at myself. Does this mean your missing a knuckle bone on your fingers? :p

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  20. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I think Lucas knew that he couldn't please everyone, so he went in knowing there would be some who wouldn't like what he was doing.

    What else can he do but make the movie he wants to make? He is lucky that there are enough of us out here who share his taste that he doesn't have to worry about the ones who do not.
  21. BabaORileyFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    star 4
    I wouldn't say the feedback Lucas gets from fans is the main drive that molds the final product. It's his art and mind, after all, which leads to the vision we see on the screen. You can't possibly please everyone, no matter how harsh or vocal the public opinion may be.

    Lucas is seeing fit that his ideas are put to use, and while he may not be 100% pleased with how everything turned out, I don't think it's far-fetched to say he was overall happy with TPM (because if he truly wasn't, it would be odd to release the film anyway, wouldn't it?).






  22. Jedi_Waster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 2
    This is a pretty good thread!

    If I write a bad essay for one of my history courses, it's my fault.

    If I draw a picture for a person and he doesn't like it, then it's my fault.

    And if I make a film that could have been better in every respect then its my fault for not trying hard enough.

    I bet you that GL's least favourite of the SW movies is ESB. Coincidence? I don't think so.

    "He's more machine now, than man. Twisted and evil."
    - I suppose 20 years, divorce, money, power can do that to a person....
  23. TheAnointedOne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 2
    Amen, Jedi_Waster!

    Why is it that anything I do that isn't up to par is MY fault, and if Lucas does a bad Star Wars movie, then it's my fault too!

    Somehow, it just doesn't seem fair.
  24. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    If Lucas makes a movie he is happy with, that enough people like, then he had certainly not "failed". What did you think he could please everyone? That's impossible, so Lucas doesn't sweat it. So he makes these films for himself and his fans.

    Taste is subjective.
  25. BabaORileyFett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2002
    star 4
    Just because you think TPM is a bad film, doesn't mean Lucas should too. If Lucas is happy with the film, that's the most important thing. Part of creating art is learning to deal with criticism, as I'm sure Lucas is used to by now, having to endure the negativity spewing from the media's corner since Star Wars' conception.

    And from the instances he's defended TPM after the backlash, I'd say he is quite proud of the film.
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