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PT is it the jedi council fault anakin turned to the dark side?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by deadly jp, Aug 25, 2014.

?

jedi council's fault for anakin turning to the darkside

  1. Yes

    23 vote(s)
    29.1%
  2. No

    56 vote(s)
    70.9%
  1. IMightRegretThisUsername

    IMightRegretThisUsername Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Why don't we ask why Obi-Wan, who knew of Anakin's relationship to Padme, didnt report him to the council? If anyone says anything along the lines of "his brother", "his apprentice", or didn't want Anakin to be expelled, then Obi-Wan is dealing with the same level of attachment to his "brother" as Anakin is to Padme(of course not on that same level, but it still is clouding their judgement.) This might be perhaps because he knows how happy Anakin is with her and can't bring himself to force him to choose between the two things that give his life purpose. Yes, I got to pull another TCW tidbit out there: When Duchess Satine died in Obi-Wan's arms, he said he would've left the Order had she asked if of him. He himself was being troubled with separating his duties as a Jedi from his personal interest. So let's not take away the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker by simply looking at it as simple as a selfish kid who couldn't let go and only thought about himself. He was a gifted kid, brought in the most troubling times in the Republic's history, mentored by people who were in their darkest moments(either clouded judgement(Jedi), or evil(Palpatine). Every factor had a part in his downfall.
     
  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Obi-wan didn't tell the Council because he believed that Padme would be a strong influence on Anakin. It wasn't because of an attachment, but an act of compassion. That's why he told her that he knew before he left for Utapau. He believed that she could help him in ways that he couldn't.
     
  3. IMightRegretThisUsername

    IMightRegretThisUsername Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Uhh, Well, we got that strong influence now didn't we? I'm saying it clouded his judgement. No matter how you try to rationalize it, Obi-Wan knew she had a hold of Anakin. In the eyes of the Jedi Order/council, nothing should guide your actions and fuel your ambitions stronger than your loyalty to the Jedi Order and the people of Republic. If you're referring to that scene in the apartment that was cut from the movie, Obi-wan is turning to Padme to get Anakin to calm him down and to quell his recent doubts and worries about the council. Again, it's a Jedi Master going to a romantic partner because he believes neither he or his apprentice have the power/ability to help Anakin think clearly. That is a weakness caused by Anakin's attachment, blatantly ignored and undermined in a desperate attempt to try to bring her to his side, so she does say anything to him that will maker her stand as a stronger opposition to the council, from Anakin's perspective. You might even say, he figures this out then, and fears penalty from the Order would only drive Anakin further into his disdain for the council. But we know he knew years beforehand and this has been shown in TCW (Season 6: Episode 6 "The Rise of Clovis"). These were dark times for everyone and not everyone was completely exemplary in guiding Anakin.
     
  4. IMightRegretThisUsername

    IMightRegretThisUsername Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2016
    *does not say anything
     
  5. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    It's still referred to in the film that he went to her for help with Anakin. He knew. He just didn't know how bad it was. That's why he when he saw that she was pregnant, he realized that their relationship was worse than he had thought. Remember, the Jedi aren't celibate. He had just assumed that it was a relationship, not marriage and a child.
     
  6. mackmitchell94

    mackmitchell94 Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2016
    I wouldn't say it's completely their fault but imo they definitely shared about as much blame as palpatine. Don't get me wrong, the Jedi had best of intentions but by the time of the prequels they had experienced 1000 years of no sith (seemingly) and had grown somewhat overconfident and too reliant on the Jedi code, not to mention complacent. Qui Gon could see this and that's why he rarely agreed with the Jedi council, Qui-Gon didn't adhere to the code for everything and a lot of the time he trusted the force and did what he thought was right. This made him some what of a maverick and this is portrayed brilliantly in The Phantom Menace. IMO Qui gon without doubt was the one who was supposed to train Anakin as he would've been the perfect teacher for him, instead he was slain and the inexperienced Obi wan took Anakin in, again no disrespect towards Kenobi but he was just like the rest of the council and too "by the book" for Anakin, he successfully trained him but he was also too hard on Anakin and allowed him to become attached to the chancellor. Obi wan being a traditional by the book Master also made Anakin keep a lot of secrets from him: Padme (even though I kinda feel like Obi wan knew secretly), the whole incident with his mother and slipping dangerously close to the dark side after he massacred the tuskens etc., secredts that I feel Anakin would've felt a lot more comfortable sharing with Qui-Gon. Anyways it was ultimately Anakins fault that he turned, but The Jedi DID fail him, Obi Wan DID fail him.They failed him from the moment they first tested him in Phantom Menace, when they said they would not train him because he had fear even though ironically it was because of their own fear of the dark side that they said so. Their ingnorance and fear of the dark side is ironically what allowed palpatine to walk among them for so long without them even senseing until it was too late, anyways I believe if Qui-Gon didn't die and went on to train Anakin, Anakin wouldn't have turned.
     
  7. theraphos

    theraphos Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 20, 2016
    By this logic, a Jedi who refuses a dare to put their hand on a burning stove for no reason is clearly afraid of getting burned and will immediately fall to the dark side. When in reality they're not going to put their hand on that stove because it's needlessly dangerous and stupid and will accomplish nothing good.

    Jedi aren't obligated to leap out the nearest airlock just so nobody will accuse them of being chicken. The same goes for initially choosing not to train a boy every one of them could tell was dangerous; it's not fear, for heaven's sake, it's making a judgement call, which everyone has to do in life. Which is no different from the second time they made a judgement call on that matter either, save that other circumstances had changed and that caused (most of) the council to arrive at a different conclusion re: what the best of several bad options was.
     
    mackmitchell94 likes this.