Is jacen a moron for not using the force?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by yoddles, Feb 25, 2001.

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  1. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
  2. LoveisSuicideSP Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2001
    star 4
    I think Jacen is smart for not just blindly using the force and trying to figure out the real nature of it. He is really trying to figure out what is right and i respect him for doing that. And to everybody who is saying that he is a moron; everything doesn't always turn out perfectly, even in Star Wars. Thats why i think Vector Prime was such an incredible book. It didn't look at things in a storybook light where everything turns out right and by the end of the book everyone is back together and is ready to go on to another adventure, like in so many other Star Wars books(woah, major run on). It told it like it happens. I might not of liked what happened, but it had a certain refreshing truth to it.

    Thats my views on it.I'm sorry if i offended anyone.
  3. Gav Daragon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2000
    star 5
    I think that Jacen's problem is that he never really got the option of becoming a Jedi - it was decided that he would be a Jedi even before he was born. And of course, due to his family's close ties with the Jedi, (siblings, uncle and aunt being Masters, Mum being semi-trained) and because of who he and his family are, it would be impossible for him to get any distance between them for any considerable length of time, as shown in BP.

    Lets be honest, he was never given that much of an opportunity to do anything else with his life, unlike Jaina, who is in Rogue Squadron. Couple this with the fact that he is 17/18 now, an age of where he is likely to rebel against things as he truly begins to understand what life is about (and I can relate to him here after my experiences in the past year or so), and you are left with a 17 year old Jedi not knowing if this is the path for him, even though he himself never chose it.

    So, no, I don't think that he is a moron for not using the Force - I also believe that he will get over this phase of questioning things, it just depends on how long it will take him
  4. jedilona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2000
    star 4
    I don't think he's a moron..I didn't agree with his ideas...
    I think Jacen just has to figure out things on his own, and his own way.
    I think he's not sure of himself or the things he should do..

    He's still got some growing up to do..
    In time I'm sure he'll figure things out.
  5. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 7
    "I need to stop using the Force to show the Jedi are not above the people"

    Basically he was trying to show by "starvation" his disapproval of Kyp's decision to set himself above the galaxy as judge, jury, and executioner. Unfortunately no one paid attention because the force isn't a tool like he thought it was to Jacen and the kids but it's a very powerful being whom is connected if not God itself...

    Jacen didn't realize this and thus failed miserably in several critical moments.

    Now he's on his road to redemption
  6. GirlJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2000
    star 3
    I don't know why everyone is picking on Jacen and being mean to him.

    Jacen and Anakin are two sides of the same coin. One looks at longterm problems and only thinks about longterm solutions... to the detriment of present problems.
    The other acts and works only on shortterm problems and their solutions. I have to get from A to B (Anakin realizes this in Conquest to some degree, and Tahiri also points this out to him).

    Both need to come closer to the other's way of thinking. Seems like Qui Gonn and ObiWan also exemplified these contrasts to some degree."master yoda said I should be mindful of the future" but QG did not sense that "something elusive" and OW did. (caution: speculative overall theme here).

    plus Jacen probably has middle child syndrome Ja__n: "Jaina Jaina Anakin! that's all I ever hear about!"
  7. jwkenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 1
    I agree with those who say "yes, but he is young and learning his way". I also agree that he is the most interesting of the Solo children and that he has potential to be the next Obi-Wan Kenobi....just my two credits.
  8. marmkid Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2001
    star 4
    for once they let kyp say something good
    in conquest when he said that jacen only started using the force again because his mother was in trouble
    which was true
    he ran away from everything else before someone he cared about got in trouble
    then he went and used the force to its fullest possible power (for him anyway)
    im glad that point was brought up in conquest
    i hadnt thought about it that way before that though it seems obvious afterwards
    i thought it was cool that they let kyp say it too
    i dont like kyp or his charactor, but if hes supposedly so strong a jedi master that he can lead a group of almost half the jedi against luke then he should have a decent point of view
    up until now i dont think he really has
    theyve just portrayed him as being just so eager to attack the vong head on
    entering into the riff between the jedi needs to go deeper than the stupid fine line between attacking and defending
    jacens charactor is defintely a little whiny kid
    of course jainas character is even worse
    as she seems angry nonstop
    isnt anger of the darkside?
    i know shes a girl but to make her the way shes been has been just annoying
  9. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    During the YJK books he was just as gung ho as Anakin is, and now he's questioning everything, when where how why did this change in character happen?

    I like the spiritual quest stuff in NJO, and Jacen is at the heart of that. In the movies they had that aspect with Luke's quest to become a Jedi, but in the bantam books spiritual quests were practically nonexistent, and now in the NJO they have returned to that in Searching out the nature of the force.

    Atleast it allows us to debate neat things like the morality of aggressive defense, staying moral during a war, and whether a 17 year old boy should be given the power to tip the scales for the light or the dark.

    "Jacen, Stay Firm."-the force vision in BP
  10. Lordban Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2000
    star 5
    A simple thought from a man who does his best to become a not too bad author (still got a lot of improvement to make, of course) : Jacen is a character I'd enjoy writing, because he does ask himself the questions he asks himself. He has an impressive depth, and this is one of the ways characters become really interesting.
  11. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    I think Jacen is on track to become like Yoda, yet he doesn't have the age or experience Yoda had. Plus he's become the central problem with the Jedi in NJO: indecision, and that's because Luke and the rest of the galaxy are having a hard time coping with the changes the Vong are bringing.
  12. Maru-Ba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2000
    star 4
    Not only is he a moron for not using the force, he is just a plain MORON!
  13. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    I've seen this point brought up a few times...

    "in conquest when he said that jacen only started using the force again because his mother was in trouble
    which was true..."

    It IS true, and personally, I don't think that's a problem. At the end of RotJ, Anakin returns to the light side only because the life of his son is at stake, right?

    Anakin fulfills the prophecy and brings balance to the Force--for the sake of his son, and perhaps his daughter.

    With regard to Jacen, the most important aspect of his decision to again use the Force is that he overcomes his own pride--the pride that was slowly but surely leading him to the dark side. He redeems himself, and finds balance in the Force.

    Like his grandfather. Like his uncle in Dark Empire. The only difference is that Jacen (like Luke in RotJ) achieves balance without actually going over to the dark side.

    Jacen is a strong character, and one of the most interesting characters to emerge in the NJO. I look forward to his future development.
  14. Dark_Luke Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 1
    I think Jacne is portryed all wrong in the NJO. In the other books, the real EU books I mena, he used the Force all thetime. He wasn't afraid to use it to save lives. In other words, Jacen in NJO isn't the real Jacen. The real midiot is Anikan. In Jedi Eclipse, he refuses to fire Centerpoint, thus saving many lives. Instead, Thrakan does it, and wipes out 3/4s of the Hapan fleet doing it. If ANIKAN had pulled the trigger, he could have destroyed those same Yuuzhan Vong, AND saved the Hapan fleet.
  15. Keyan_Stele Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 2
    To answer the original question of this thread....In my opinion: YES.

    Basically the authors seemed to want to explore another aspect of the Jedi as in: "What would a Jedi who practices the Jedi beliefs of peace be like if he was entirely pacifist and only felt or sensed the Force occassionally instead of wielding it like all other Jedi?"

    To me it's been one of those interesting exercises that get thrown back in the faces of those that had the idea because it didn't turn out as cool as was hoped for. It's unfortunate and maybe originally a good idea, but obviously it has caused much nonsense at the expense of "exploring an idea". Jacen just doesn't behave consistently to me between the novels in the entire EU and the most radical reversals for him have come within the NJO.

    Just my view. Ya don't have to like it obviously. I just think they've pulled Jacen's teeth in terms of his character and if they're doing it to set something up down the line, that just points out another flaw with this "huge, unified line of books" idea that I also dislike. There's too much to be done in SW to spend over a dozen books on one story just to explore every nook, cranny, and nuance in the series.

    A side note on all of this is that I've noticed a rising amount of discontent with the NJO as it's advanced so far along now. It seems to me that many more people are starting to echo statements I'd made against this series about a year ago. Maybe the novelty is wearing off.

    It's a good thing some of us aren't enamoured by novelty.

    On the other hand, I've liked Conquest the most thus far which is another indication that my opinions are the opposite of many on these boards. Maybe I liked it though because it didn't have a lot of the idiotic politics that some authors have presented as clever and sensible. That, and the fact that a protagonist spoke out against the instance of such an occurence in this work. (Jaina and Luke vs. Borsk) I mean our heroes have been bending over and taking it from behind so far. I don't know many heroes that like to do that for 5 books and I can't understand fans who like to see that for such long durations. Maybe it's a sign of how dark our world is becoming.

    Maybe it's all just a movie and the spin offs of it and we should realize some will be good, some will be bad and everyone will have their own thoughts on to what falls into which category. No matter your opinion on the quality though, everyone is a SW fan.
  16. The Gatherer Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 1999
    star 6
    Is everyone glad that Jacen Solo has gone back now to using the Force?
  17. darth-skycrawler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 2
    Jacen is a total idiot a jedi should not let people die with out caring and then jump in to save his mother. Look at the council they are not isolated jedi they happen to be the greatest fighters in the entire order with the two leading members being the greatest fighters yoda and mace. The jedi council when there is a big problem jump up from their seats and get straight into the middle of a war if it is to defend the republic. People think that yoda is a pascifist because he does not fight the emperor but the truth is if yoda or ben took an active part in the rebellion then good all palps would decide to go and kick some but. yoda and ben would be dead and vader would never have turned instead the prooved that they were true warriors by constructing the plan to make anakins son turn him back from the lightside.

    Jacen like all the jedi in njo are awfully trained by luke. it is not jacen's fault he is an idiot it is because he was trained by an idiot. Luke is so dum that he thinks ben let himself be killed because he did not have the will to fight. Ben died because he was out practising becoming a spirit and had not trained in fighting for ages and hence knew that he had no chance. Jacen should start to reearch history so that they can start training like proper jedi and then they would be no more cute jedi families causing jedi's to turn to the darkside
  18. QUI_GONN_BEN Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    At last someone who s intelligent.
    Jacen is a complete moron and makes absolute crap decision. I could point out several examples but I haven' the time
  19. GS335 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2001
    star 4
    The problem with all the Jedi in the NJO, is that none of them fully know what it means to be a true Jedi. They do not understand the true nature of the force, and what the 'will of the force' is. I think that is mainly due to the fact that a lot of the teachings from the old Jedi Order was destroyed by Palpatine. Yes, a lot of them maybe strong in the force, and maybe adept in using a lightsaber and using the force, but they do not fully understand what it is to be a true Jedi. Jacen has to realise that a true Jedi uses the force as his/her ally.....you gain knowledge from the force....you gain insight from the force....the force is everything that makes up a person. That is where midichloreans come in. If none of the teachings were destroyed, than the new Jedi would be much better Jedi than what they already are.

    And, Jacen is no where near a rank of a Jedi Master. He is wise, but he still has much to learn about the force, and what it means to be a Jedi. He, like Jaina and Anakin, are still on a Padawan level. Neither of them have completed their own trials, and until they do, they are not true Jedi Knights.

    God bless :)
  20. Lonewolf89 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah, Jacen was an idiot. I liked his character in YJK, but recently he's turned into a hypocrite, and, obviously, a moron.


  21. admiralpotts Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    if i had the force i would use it for:

    world domination
    for profit
    to kill people

    therefore jacen is a retard
  22. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    Then if you had the Force, Admiral, you wouldn't be a Jedi at all like Jacen but a Sith like Palpatine who would definitely consider Jacen a moron.
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