Is KOTOR2 a worthy continuation of a brilliant star wars story set in motion by the Original KOTOR?

Here's my take on the two games. The first KOTOR when you break down the story and morality was very basic, you had your good guys, you had your bad guys, good and evil were pretty clearly defined and while the opportunity for darkness was there it didn't have a foreboding tone. It was very much in the style of the original trilogy. Then we have Sith Lords. Up is down and black is white. Moral lines are blurred, no matter what the Exile does she is seen as a villain rather than a hero. It had a similar feel to the prequels. Now people have gone off about the game being rushed and incomplete. The first game had quite a bit left out as well, most noticeably Juhani and scenes that were cut. Patches and mods restore most of this in both games, which is good. Overall I think the game gave a rather unique story and perspective, I'm not sure if it's one that I agree with but in light of the Jedi being portrayed as heroes to see them fallible and immoral, or to see Kreia's teachings practically portrayed (such as how helping others isn't a good thing) it certainly gives one pause for thought.

 

I have never played KoTOR before so the first one Ive played was KoTOR II.

I thought it was pretty good, the plot build up was pretty intense all the way til what I felt was a quick climax and a let down in the end.

It was still a great game though, maybe because I have yet to be spoiled by the awesomeness of KotOR I lol

 

This is true. In KotOR, the line between good and evil was clearly cut but in TSL, lines are blurred, motives are hidden and secrets are everywhere. It does make you think though doesn't it? Does it make a person stronger when they are refused help? Or does it just harm them in the end? Hmmmm....

 

I thought the morality of the story was fairly straight-forward. The surviving Jedi Council members had become corrupt(which is a huge departure from the Jedi of the first game and only Vrook's corruption is foreshadowed in anyway), Kreia and the other Sith are evil, and the only heroes are Carth, Bastila, the Exile, and parts of her party.

As for the KOTOR comparison, I think the second game had the potential to be far better than the first one, but it being rushed out stopped it from being what it could have been.

 

No it is not a good enough story to continue on from the first one. The ending is rubbish and the good ideas that were obviouly thought up were not taken through to a complete conclusion

 

Yes it is, the story is much deeper and the good ideas ended up right where they should have.

The story is more personal, which is good, because yet another big war would have been completely stupid at that point. The ending is fine for what it was supposed to be, the second part of a trilogy. Would have been nice if Obsidian had gotten the time to finish the game properly, but LucasArts hasn't made good decisions in quite some time anyway, so that's not really a surprise.

Doesn't change that I still would have liked the first game more, but even in it's current state, it's a more than worthy continuation of KOTOR.

 

That's an interesting perspective. IMO, there's no huge departure, but rather a continuation of the same theme.

In KOTOR 1, a desperate but misguided Council decides to completely brainwash a prisoner and transform him into their tool.

In KOTOR 2, an equally desperate and equally misguided Council use the Exile for their own ends and then turn on her (because they believe her to be the reason for Nihilus' existence and potentially a future Nihilus herself- and they're not that wrong).

So basically in both we have a Jedi Council that is not evil or corrupt, but is simply making some very bad decisions, and toying with the lives of our respective heroes.

 

I'm playing TSL again at the moment (3rd time or so?) and I'm starting to think this could have become my favorite game ever if Obsidian had had the time to do it properly. Kreia may be a nagging *****, but she is very intelligently written and ultimately not nearly as annoying as Bastila "High-Horse" Shan. Atton's way of dealing with his troubled past doesn't make my ears bleed like Carth's does. Everyone, really, had it worse in TSL than in KotOR, but they don't whine nearly as much (Juhani anyone?). Sure, Goto is completely useless, but I'd like to think that lies in the programming.

And that's the thing. The actual game still kinda... sucks. Were any of the areas really supposed to be like that in a 100% version? Sure, we all know the Trayus Academy is bland and half-finished, but I can't help but think that every single environment required another week or two of polish and clean-up. It works, obviously, but it looks terribly generic and I'm not just talking about graphics. The layout is either lazy or needlessly complicated which seems like a cheap trick to suggest a depth that just isn't there.

I know, the thread is more about story, but it's part of my point. It's an excellent story, but it lies solely in the audio files. And great speech files slapped onto a mediocre assortment of modified KotOR1-architecture and only passable other game-designs cheapen all the effort in the world of the writers.

 

Due to the time constraints and such, the plot of KOTOR2 was WAYYYYYY more confusing than it should've been. I've only recently learned WHAT the Mass Shadow Generator was, its role in the destruction on Malachor V, the relationship between Bao-Dur, the Exile, and Revan, what the hell an "echo in the Force" WAS, how it was created by the Exile, and numerous other plot holes. I appreciate the game play, and the fact there even WAS a sequel, but they should've been allowed to take their time on it.



Plus, they could've done a TAD more with Revan other than a holographic ghost figure and few name drops here and there. I understand he's supposed to have taken off to the Outer Rim, and therefore couldn't actually be IN the game, but come on! There are ways to reference characters that aren't there without some old witch lady (Kreia) that was supposedly his former Master babbling ON and ON about him.




Loved Nihilus and Sion though. And the NPC's were awesome.

 

No offense everyone, but this is ridiculous! KOTOR 2 has been finished for awhile now. Complaining about how you don't like the ending, or don't understand whats going on is pointless. You can't change what has already happened. If you don't like it, then don't play it.

Yes I understand it wasn't as good as it could have been. But look on the bright side, at least you got a KOTOR two. Would you rather have none?

 

I'm not sure I fully agree that they brainwashed him though. His mind was broken when Bastila rescued him and my interpretation of it had been that while some of the facts were wrong, they had simply restored the core being that was Revan. I'm not sure that qualifies as brainwashing given that they did it to save his life and to learn what had made him fall.

Their actions in KOTOR II however are far more clearly wrong. Zez-Kai and Kavar both seem to see that the Exile isn't another Revan as they had feared her to be, but rather is simply a Jedi(at least if you played it 100% Light as I did.) The only one who seems to think otherwise is Vrook and he convinced the other two to abdicate the Jedi Code and kill an innocent in order to stop the guilty.

 

I suppose, as you say, this is down to personal interpretation. Personally I think the Council were not so foolish as to take the risk of simply returning Revan to his 'core being' because he could easily repeat his old mistakes and fall to the darkside. And then they'd have two Dark Lords running around!

A far wiser course of action would be to program him with a new personality and then say it was for his own good. Indeed, Zez Kai-Ell suggests that this is exactly what happened.

Kill an innocent? Do you mean the Exile? They didn't want to kill the Exile, merely strip her of the Force. They feared that as a 'wound in the Force' she would become another Nihilus. Which is a perfectly reasonable fear to have in the circumstances.

 

I suppose it would depend on if they felt Revan's fall was inevitable or a mistake he made that could have been avoided. As to the part of Zez-Kai's view, it can be made to work either way. One could argue that Zez-Kai simply believed that even some simple restoration would have made him an entirely different person given that they definitely did at least some fabrication given that he was never a soldier, smuggler, or a scout. I don't think it's the case given that Revan himself seems to still view himself as Revan, but again that's a thing that depends on in-game dialogue choice.

I'm just not sure the Jedi could have still used his memories to gain strategic advantage if they had constructed his identity out of whole cloth. Vrook also was nervous about just the possibility you suggest, which makes me think that he favored a complete wipe while his counterparts favored reconstruction where possible in Revan's damaged mind.

D'oh, you're right. It's been awhile since I played KotOR II. The underlying point I think still applies though. If Kavar and Zez-Kai still believed that the Exile had found her way back to the Light, there was no reason to strip her of the Force. There was the possibility that she could become another Nihilus, but they should have been able to see how unlikely it was given that she had shown herself to be a true Jedi(again if you played 100% Light.)

 

I just think: the Dark Lord of the Sith, near-dead and in the hands of a hunted and desperate Jedi Council...if they're going to program him at all, why not go the whole way? But yeah, good point on the strategic advantage- they didn't go the whole way because they needed his memories. But therefore, I don't think ethical concerns factored into it, only strategical ones.

Which is why I would say that they're just as 'corrupt' as the Council of KOTOR II.

 

That's a fair point that I hadn't considered before.

 

Well now.. The story is good, i like it, forget all the missing pieces. What im thinking of is, what`s up with Nihilus and the Exile. I really dont like the fact that they are super humans, (maybe not even humans). Look at all the talk about Nihilus, how he will destroy the entire "UNIVERSE", just with his precence.

The exile just slaughter everything in her way. Look at the trayus academy, or the civil war on Onderon. It`s not star wars like at all. It seems like the developers went crazy. Its not jedi and sith anymore, its god, the devil and superhumans. Even for star wars its ridicilous.

Another thing is that i just dont like to go around and kill almost everyone and everything i come across during the game.

(Sorry for bringing this thread back up)

 

KOTOR2 was the first role-playing game I ever played and I was totally blown backwards by it. I thought it was the best thing in the world. It was my baby. My precious. The heart-beat driving my life forward. Then I played KOTOR1, and oh boy, never again will I experience such... emotion. As soon as Bastilla emerged, in black robes, carrying a double-bladed red lightsaber, I was in a stage of total shock. I remember thinking, this is possibly the greatest creation ever. Even better than the films.

Now I see that as much as I enjoyed KOTOR2, it is not really a "worthy" sequel to the awesomeness of the original. No way. Anyone who says it is should look in the mirror and make that change.

 

I would say yes. I enjoyed KOTOR more but TSL brought it to the next level in terms of your path and what you could do. It was also darker in my book which is what you need in a timeframe where evil is at the same level of Palpatine's reign.

 

I think KotOR 2 was interesting and definitely contributed something significant to Star Wars....but it still doesn't feel like it fit with the first game at all. Things like Sith Assassins, Force-induced genocide, and the Trayus Academy all seemed pretty contrived and don't relate to KotOR 1.

On the other hand, the atmosphere was hella creepy and really was able to suck me in. Traya was also an awesome villain and it was really cool that they brought her out as a counterweight to all the Jedi we've seen who preach about "the will of the Force".

But still, none of this connects in any way to KotOR 1, and if it were up to me I would have moved it chronologically to 3500 to 2500 BBY instead of immediately after the first game.

 

For me, KOTOR2 didn't capture all of the good things established in KOTOR.

1) Overall Storyline
2) Shocking moments (Revan twist, Korriban subplot)
3) Likeable characters (Bastilla, Mission, Zaalbar, Jedi characters)
4) Villians (Malak, Korriban Sith Supremecy)
5) Excellent endings

KOTOR2 was a solid game. But, KOTOR was epic.

 

Seeing as how the game just abruptly ends with no cut-scene (at least that's what it did to me as a Sith Lord). You just see the ship fall through some rocks or something and then that's it... left a bitter taste in my mouth about the game as a whole. But I do remember enjoying it while I was actually playing it. The end is just an utter epic failure.