Discussion in 'Literature' started by BOOSTERERRANT, Dec 30, 2000.
Death must occur.
It isn't right though
Kyp just needs to finally realize Luke is a moron and head off on his own.
You people are acting on a double standard "It's all right for the NR military to attack in DEFENSE of the people, but it's not all right for a Jedi to attack in defense of the people" I really don't see what Kyp is doing as morally wrong. Give the guy a break if it had been Luke Skywalker to suggest taking it to the vong would you have even questioned it? No. Why? Because he's the omnipotent Jedi Master. Not Kyp.
A JEDI CRAVES NOT THESE THINGS.
A Jedi must have the most serious mind, the deepest commitment.
YOU ARE RECKLESS
Again I ask you truly my friend where is your evidence that luke is sitting on his Jedi behind not doing anything? He, Corran Horn, and Mara are all moving throughout the galaxy gathering information.
Presumably trying to keep the Jedi Safe until they can make a coordinaed strike against the Darkness.
But the fact is the Jedi aren't warriors and Luke I think is trying to point out the Jedi cannot fight the galaxy's wars for them. A Jedi Knight...yes that is those who have chosen the warriors path...
But look at it this way
That Twielik chick
Another Jedi mentioned
The apprentice on Duros
Five Jedi have already perished and the fact is that it's possible that Kyp's recklessness will lead them into a Vong trap and their doom.
To play my own devil's advocate....
Have you ever once noticed Luke condemning Kyp Duroun during this?
I think luke heartily approves that Kyp is trying to defend as many people as he can.
However I think Luke also wants to make sure that Kyp's followers don't try and go off half cocked.
That Twielik Chick tried to find another Eye or Suncrusher..
Now imagine if she had reactivated the Eye of Palpatine.
And it immediately traveled to say Corellia on another 50 year old mission to kill Jedi and killed a few million people.
Wurth Skidder believed that his heroic plan would work and he was broken for it, Kyp tried to go for him and rescue him but it was too late.
Corran to an extent should have forseen treachery on Shedeo Shai's part and might have prevented Ithor's destruction had he made such preparations and not been focused on dear old Camasaii's death.
Anakin Skywalker if he had fired the shot wouldn't have really violated the Force's princibles....Luke would have asked him if he was sure.
Anakin said yes.
Luke would have fired. Then again it was a bad situation all round.
and Jacen is the perfect example of what a bunch of navel starers is something Luke is trying to avoid as well....something Jacen didn't understand when he was calling his uncle a fool.
At worst I think Kyp is trying to make up for his Dark Side past with a bunch of heroics that are setting a bad example for students.
At best I think Kyp is following the Force's plan for him.
At worst I think Luke is being a bit indecisive in letting his students follow their own paths and in many cases to their own destruction.
At best I think he's doing his best to rebuild 25,000 years of lost jedi lore in a span of 10 years.
Good posts everyone!
Deign Lian's orders were to destroy all life on the planet as soon as Shedao Shai would have died, and is Shedao had won, the planet would also have been destroyed as a major military threat to the Vong. I guess Corran thinking a little more about it would have brought no good, in fact it was much better for the NR to get the delay he offered them than it would have been if the Vong had kept pushing their attack. Much has being salvaged thanks to Corran's involvment.
Thanks to Wylding I'm re-reading this thread, a debate has started on who would be a better Jedi than Kyp, which will surely bring back the question of moral to the front. Here's the link :
well, good points and touche all you Kyp lovers.
It's back. No. I've been ignring this now for months. I posted so much in here and I don't think I changed anybody's mind.
well maybe not, but your veiw is respected.
I haven't sen you for a long time. Been posting in the Fan Fiction forum.
"The point is that for a Jedi attacking, except in some cases (there are always exceptions), is morally wrong. Kyp's philosophy of taking the fight to the Vong is morally wrong for that of a Jedi."
Ok, I'm going to be blunt, this statement is foolish. You say there are always exceptions, but only in rare cases. Excuse my sarcasm, but I'd say this is one of those rare cases. In case you've missed it, the galaxy is being invaded by beings whose only goal is to KILL THEM!!!! and DESTROY their civilizations and culture. Using the term "ethnic cleansing" here would be an understatement.
Come on people, fighting back is not immoral. The Vong aren't civilians, every single one of them knowlingly entered a war zone (which, by the way, they created).
Luke attacked the Death Star, didn't he? He attacked the AT-AT's who attacked Echo Base. It's the same thing, except on a galaxy wide scale instead of on the planetary level.
"The Stark Hyperspace Wars take place. During the battle, the forces of the Old Republic were devastated after the death of the Jedi Master who was leading them. The Jedi Plo Koon rose to the occasion, taking up the mantle of the fallen Master and rallying the Republic?s troops for an unlikely and miraculous victory.
Conjecture based upon the Official Star Wars Website."--From Time Tales
The old jedi were not afraid to fight back, look at this excerpt. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn faught against Darth Maul, too, and they are lauded (especially Jinn) for there bravery and intrepidness. How is Kyp any different than Jinn in this respect(Yes, i know Jinn didn't blow up a planet, at least as far as we know), they both defied the council to do what they thought was right.
This sudden reluctance to fight is something Del Rey created for effect, to create tension, conflict, etc. The fact that you all jumped on the "pacifism-at-all-costs" bandwagon is pathetic. I'm with Jarik on this one. I never once heard anyone complain when Luke faught back before the NJO, now suddenly its a crime.
Finally, although I insist this isn't an issue of morality, in a time of war, morals go out the window. Whoever is in a position help has a responsibility to do so. The Jedi can help, and they are not, it is that simple,
Wohoo! Someone on my side. Yahoo!
Hey, Face, did you read all 4 pages of this thread before posting? If so I've really gotta commend you. I don't know how you could sit through reading all that.
Yeah I wasn't to sucessful in FanFic...
Ne ways here is what I see wrong with Kyps approach.
1. Naked Aggression- Being aggressive in itself is fine, but he tends to act upon emotion etc. without premeditated thought. He just sorta runs into a situation blindly, lightsaber blazing.
2. Dissention-He causes dissention between the ranks of the Jedi. Even though he may see things in a diffirent light, he needs to respect his Master's opinion and (most of the time) submit to it. He may not like it, but if not for Luke, he would be dead 10 times over. ( No Empire destroy, Capital Punishment at NR hands for genocide. )He needs to recognize Luke's role as Master, even if Luke has become, shall we say, too conservative. Also, whether he intends to or not, he causes rebellion between the Jedi ranks, and draws attention to himself.
3. Maturity- Argueing with the Solo ids is a little low. Hes in his 30's, they're around 17.
4. Rivalries- The Jedi should not grapple with one another, rather, grapple with the Yuuzhan Vong. ( Corran Kyp )
5. Hard-Headed- Even if Luke IS right, Kyp never wants to admit it. This hinders his influence over the followers of Luke.
The GOOD of Kyp
1. Good Base Idea- He has a good strategy in dealing with the Vong, but is a little to blatantly aggressive. Aggression should be a LAST resort, not a first option.
2. Anger control- I for one, dont think Kyp will fall again to the darkside. For those wh disagree, if he was gonna fall, he wouldve done it by now. Also, he hasnt snapped like Corran has ( Darktide books ).
3. Somewhat of a Role-Model- Symbolizes the Jedi as strong, this is the image they need.
4. Anti-Fey'La- YES!!!!I hate the NR administration now!
5. Has a good heart- always wants to help.
Hes getting warmer,, but vcan't rebel against Luke. Rather, he must try to do all the good he can within his confines.