ST Is "Lack of Originality" really a valid criticism of TFA?

What the ****? I'm not bashing anyone. "Pandering to the lowest common denominator" literally means that something is being made to target the broadest audience possible. The easiest way to do that is to give them a product that is exactly like one they already like, not taking risks, and not straying an inch from anyone's comfort zone. I didn't criticize a single person about their opinion, insult anyone, and I said absolutely nothing about anyone's intelligence, other people put those words in my mouth in their replies.

 

I'm talking about bashing the movies too, not just people. We have a policy in place against outright bashing anywhere but the Cave thread. And it's pretty obvious that "Pandering to the lowest common denominator" is a pretty clear swipe at people who actually enjoyed something. Also, you typed that disallowed word in full; I can tell it was only caught by the language filter. I would recommend caution going forward.

 

Strangely, not only does Star Wars want to continue, it is continuing, and the anticipation for VIII is already very high while still 652 days away. Imagine.

 

I have to agree with IronMant. I believe many of the issues I have with the film are as a consequence of Disney rushing the film to market and Abrams et al having to compromise story/character/creativity for commerciality/popularity. That should't be seen as a slur against those that like or love the film, but against those that enforce those decisions, and/or create that environment. I think TFA is a pretty dumb film, but I went to see it three times, I'll be getting the blu ray and I'll be booking my tickets for VIII as soon as I can... so whose the more foolish? This isn't really about audiences/viewers... well not for me anyhow.

 

I think it's a valid criticism. I love TFA, thought it was an amazing good time and it was when I saw it again.

I hadn't watched a Star Wars movie in over a decade, and was a pretty casual audience member about the whole thing. TFA made me watch all the other movies and really become a fan of Star Wars in general.

But when I watched the OT again, and then saw TFA again, I saw everything people were talking about when they complained about it being a rehash. That doesn't stop me from loving (so much love!) the new characters, or wanting to see what happens to Luke. But while it has some fresh ideas, those are dwarfed by the stale ones.

No movie is perfect. Certainly no Star Wars movie is perfect (asteroid monster in ESB anyone?) or free from some critical analysis. And TFA is just not an exception.

 

So now I'm a liar too? I told you what I meant with what I said, you interpreting it differently does not magically change it into some personal attack again the fans.

 

Oh aye, that's not a swipe at the people who liked it at all. At least have the courage of your convictions.

 

IronMant
When you google lowest common denominator, this is what shows up:

No matter what you meant to say, it's what you did say that counts. People are going to take it as derogatory because that's how the phrase is used. Bashing isn't allowed outside of the Cave. Feel free to take your thoughts there, or stick to non-bashing (of users or the movies) in other threads. It's possible to express your dislike without bashing.
If you have an issue with a mods warning, feel free to PM them or another mod. Continuing to argue in thread is just pulling the thread off topic.

 

I didn't call you a liar. I'm talking about how the words you are saying are interpreted by other people reading them. So great, we're all on the same page: no baiting, no trolling, and no bashing. Now, back on topic.

 

Mod edit: Removed. This has been addressed.

 

Really? Because when I google "lowest common denominator", this is what shows up:
"When applied to fiction, the term Lowest Common Denominator means appealing to as many people at once as possible."
-TVTropes.org

 

Final warning. Stop derailing the thread.

 

I don't see any lack of originality in TFA. The film had a hard task to fulfill and I think JJ and his team knocked it out of the park. There's an obvious inspiration from the OT and it is a sequel to ROTJ so there's some that will point to that as a lack of originality, but I disagree. Of all the directions they could have went, I feel that the path they took sets up this trilogy to be something really special.

 

Couldn't agree with you more!

 

Without wishing to seem offencive I think you were exactly the kind of viewer TFA was aimed at, someone with memories of Star Wars from there youth who hadn't actually watched it in along time.

Honestly for me if a lack of originality was the only problem with TFA it would be a vastly better film than it is, the problem for me is that its also an inferior work to the OT in character of building its setting, characters and story. As has been mentioned it feels like a lowest common denominator blockbuster to me clad in Star Wars clothes, certainly not a bad film but a long long way off any of the OT. The depressing thing for me is that whilst the film isn't terrible after just a couple of months it feels like its "old news", not something to debate or watch for years just a blockbuster diversion to be forgotten when the next one comes along.

No film is perfect but with something like the asteroid monster your talking one dodgy looking FX shot.

 

It really lacks that sense of adventure , of going somewhere new etc. It just feels to much like a movie that's been constructed from bits of the OT .

When you think JJA has been a fan his whole life , and so he must've had dreams and ideas over the years (especially as a kid) of what he'd like to see , and he gets his chance and this is what he comes up with . I really thought they had some original stuff they were saving for the 2nd half of the movie , the first half was very familiar , but ok , maybe they just want to get everyone comfortable , and now the 2nd half will come out with the big new ideas , and . . . DS III appears .

.

 

It's a big assumption to think that a self professed Star Wars fan can make an intelligently crafted Star Wars film. Perhaps TFA is proof that fans shouldn't make films?

 

The point is that TFA does not lack Lucas' originality.

It revels in it.

Which was always the point for JJ. He made quite clear:

http://www.slashfilm.com/j-j-abrams-responds-to-the-force-awakens-a-new-hope-comparisons/

“I can understand that someone might say, ‘Oh, it’s a complete rip-off!’ ” he says, adding, “What was important for me was introducing brand new characters using relationships that were embracing the history that we know to tell a story that is new — to go backwards to go forwards.”

 

The originality thing is an interesting discussion, and for my money, too interesting to see in simple "did it make TFA good/bad?" terms.

Maybe there's middle ground here?
Is it possible that we can acknowledge that George Lucas did indeed have a fantastic imagination, as well as some very, very talented collaborators, and that George had a knack for spinning some classic traditional stories into something new, but then rather than following that up by saying "but that isn't happening now, so Star Wars is poorer for it", doing something else.

Maybe, we can say that broadly speaking, the Star Wars universe has already been created. And that George Lucas's creation, basically a galaxy-wide playground has always, always been big enough for other stories to be told in it? And that while Lucas himself did indeed push what was possible to make it, that there is actually something to be said for the idea that the richness of the setting he created means that to some extent, there's leeway to the filmmakers who follow him?

 

Like most things, it's relative. If a film excels in other areas, then what it lacks in 'originality' becomes less important I suppose. I certainly don't want 'originality' at the expense of story or character, but if the root cause of that unoriginality is lack of creativity, or lack of freedom to be creative, then I believe that has a fundamental impact on the other elements. For me, it's TFA's lack of creativity (which isn't to say there weren't creative people working on it) that undermines its originality... Take any example of a very good sequel... be it TESB or Aliens or Spiderman 2 or From Russia With Love, it's not that they stand seperate from their predecessors, it's that they have the creative freedom to evolve, be progressive and play with the form.

 

I don't think it's even remotely justifiable to say "lack of creativity" about this film. The only criteria by which there's a lack of creativity is relative to the thirty years of imagination we might have had about what the ST would be. It's one thing to justifiably mention the elements that "owe a debt" to previous films, and criticise it based on how much that negatively impacts the film.

But to accuse it of a lack of creativity is just wrong - there's creativity oozing from the screen, more so than in any mainstream franchise for a while. You don't even need me to list them do you?

 

I can totally come up with plenty of story ideas from TFA for fan-fics for the future. The brain juices are a flowing.

 

JJ and crew were very creative but not original.

I think that sums it up.

Now I would wish for more originality but since that was never their goal and not what Disney wanted then the new Lucasfilm took up the challenge that was given to them.

ANH is arguably the most successful movie ever made and both TPM and TFA as follow-ups that use it seem to confirm that.

That TPM was both creative and original in itself while Lucas also used what he already did previously makes it that more marvelous an achievement. TFA as above if nothing else affirms that what Lucas came up with in the first place so resonates with audiences that doing such a close reworking that also includes elements pulled from all the other movies ended up doing it all over again.

 

Yeah, I can go with that (effusive praise of TPM aside). Creativity and originality are being used interchangeably, when they are distinct. Jakku wasn't original, but the aspects which made it distinct from Tattooine were creative and visually stunning, for example. Though I do wish Jakku felt slightly more like how it felt in its introduction in Aftermath, which was very evocative

 

Truth. TFA was creative. More creative than many movies in 2015. But originality? Not really.